The future of consoles

[Remij]

Because performance is still a hugely limiting factor and internet is absolutely horrendous in one of the largest video game markets(USA). As long as those remain true there will always be a need for new consoles. Console hardware does make money, just not in the first year of production. PS3 situation is never coming back. What you propose is less profitable for console manufacturers and results in a worse experience for the user.

No. Being able to sell your games to a constant userbase of 100s of millions of devices without the need to "start over" is far more desirable. Sony is probably kicking themselves that they can't sell large amounts of their back catalog to new users on their new devices... (at least not yet) They would be extremely happy to not have to build up a new userbase every generation... the reason why they did was because it was necessary to push the hardware envelope forward.

I never said Sony and MS would stop putting out a console-like box... They'll still have tons of their own devices out there that they can sell for a profit..

What performance are you even talking about? Small formfactor PCs can be far more powerful than consoles. A company like Sony or MS putting a pre-made SFF PC out there in place of their proprietary console will still get a massive discount on hardware from vendors they partner with..

As a result of all of it... I think the user experience on PC will improve as the market adopts to that change. Look at the work Valve is doing with Steam Deck. As well as those other handheld PC devices coming out. Of course there will be issues, but if you actually had the entire market working towards that goal, the overall user experience will improve rapidly from where it is on PC today.

 

[dobwal]

Consoles and gaming PCs are not the same thing.

MS/Sony play an intimate part in the design, development and manufacturing/production of the hardware/software and the overall experience of using their consoles.

How much effort is ASUS going to spend on triaging a window related issue on that ROG you just bought? How much effort is MS going to spend on helping you when your SDD goes bad within the warranty period? What can ASUS or MS do when your Steam login isn't working? Or when your Catalyst Control Center app won't open?

As a consumer electronics, PCs are probably the least consumer friendly. MS and Sony make a huge effort to overcome that reality on consoles.

PCs will never be reliable alternatives to consoles, outside of gamers who are intimate or want to become intimate with the complexity thats a inherent part of interacting with the device.

 

[Remij]

Consoles and gaming PCs are not the same thing.

MS/Sony play an intimate part in the design, development and manufacturing/production of the hardware/software and the overall experience of using their consoles.

How much effort is ASUS going to spend on triaging a window related issue on that ROG you just bought? How much effort is MS going to spend on helping you when your SDD goes bad within the warranty period? What can ASUS or MS do when your Steam login isn't working? Or when your Catalyst Control Center app won't open?

As a consumer electronics, PCs are probably the least consumer friendly. MS and Sony make a huge effort to overcome that reality on consoles.

Fair points... but the console is going to go extinct whether they like it or not. They know where the industry is headed. They're essentially trying to delay the inevitable after this point.

The good news for them is that the efforts they are putting into the PC space are working towards that goal for them, even if it seems like a small thing at the moment.

Sony will eventually have their streaming service on everything. Phones, TVs, PCs, and any other devices with screens.. How long are they going to bother R&D'ing consoles and developing specifically for it... when they can release on everything?

Jim Ryan has already admitted that he's frustrated that they can't seem to reach more players only supporting their own devices... so they must branch out. Eventually I think the market gets to the point where your games go with you wherever you are.. and Sony can no longer justify all the effort that goes into a proprietary console.

Will they see that and get out ahead of it... or will they allow themselves to fall far behind the curve? We already know MS' intentions..

 

[PSman1700]

Consoles and gaming PCs are not the same thing.

MS/Sony play an intimate part in the design, development and manufacturing/production of the hardware/software and the overall experience of using their consoles.

How much effort is ASUS going to spend on triaging a window related issue on that ROG you just bought? How much effort is MS going to spend on helping you when your SDD goes bad within the warranty period? What can ASUS or MS do when your Steam login isn't working? Or when your Catalyst Control Center app won't open?

As a consumer electronics, PCs are probably the least consumer friendly. MS and Sony make a huge effort to overcome that reality on consoles.

PCs will never be reliable alternatives to consoles, outside of gamers who are intimate or want to become intimate with the complexity thats a inherent part of interacting with the device.

I wonder how many pc gamers actually struggle with these things you mentioned.

 

[Remij]

I wonder how many pc gamers actually struggle with these things you mentioned.

Well, PC gamers ARE a special breed. lol.. We WILL deal with smaller issues without too much fuss... which I know for a fact that a massive amount of console gamers simply wouldn't.

It'll get to the point though where those expectations will change, and console gamers will eventually give in. By that time, and with the industry's full backing of it... things will become more stable.

I'm likely dreaming though lol

 

[PSman1700]

Well, PC gamers ARE a special breed. lol.. We WILL deal with smaller issues without too much fuss... which I know for a fact that a massive amount of console gamers simply wouldn't.

It'll get to the point though where those expectations will change, and console gamers will eventually give in. By that time, and with the industry's full backing of it... things will become more stable.

I'm likely dreaming though lol

Well theres those 'pc gamers' who, when doing a self-build, forget to remove the plastic peel from the CPU when installing and applying thermal paste. Either their fit for pre-builds or laptops, or the console is a good alternative.

 

[iroboto]

Cloud bypasses a lot of challenges for sure around quirks and issues at least. Makes moving forward with new features easier? I think. Patch deploying is faster as well.
It just sucks that the internet is not quite at the point where we can really loose hardware. I say 2 generations from now would be interesting times to see where internet is then.

 

[Remij]

Cloud bypasses a lot of challenges for sure around quirks and issues at least. Makes moving forward with new features easier? I think. Patch deploying is faster as well.
It just sucks that the internet is not quite at the point where we can really loose hardware. I say 2 generations from now would be interesting times to see where internet is then.

I agree with you there.. but I wouldn't say it sucks.

I don't want to lose hardware. The core gamers like to own games and hardware, in general. It will be a while before cloud gaming is up to snuff as you say.. so it's not an immediate concern, but I think there will always be a sizable market of PC gamers so that local hardware always be a thing. Hardware vendors need to sell hardware after all. Despite the massive amounts of money they will be making in the cloud.. there's still massive amounts of money to be made selling hardware. I think too many players in the industry rely on the PC gaming hardware segment for them to cut it out completely. After all, if you're deploying the game on servers.. it's likely already being designed around hardware that consumers can buy.. so why not?

That said, there could be future games which actually rely on the vast processing power of servers and that wouldn't simply be possible on local hardware at all. By the time that happens, I think the world will be ready to have moved on anyway lol.

 

[PSman1700]

I agree with you there.. but I wouldn't say it sucks.

I don't want to lose hardware. The more core gamers like to own games, in general. It will be a while before cloud gaming is up to snuff as you say.. so it's not an immediate concern, but I think there will always be a sizable market of PC gamers so that local hardware always be a thing. Hardware vendors need to sell hardware after all. Despite the massive amounts of money they will be making in the cloud.. there's still massive amounts of money to be made selling hardware. I think too many players in the industry rely on the PC gaming hardware segment for them to cut it out completely. After all, if you're deploying the game on servers.. it's likely already being designed around hardware that consumers can buy.. so why not?

That said, there could be future games which actually rely on the vast processing power of servers and that wouldn't simply be possible on local hardware at all. By the time that happens, I think the world will be ready to have moved on anyway lol.

PC is a different thing altogether, where there is hardware there will be games made for it somewhere. There will always be a need for local processing power either due to security or power etc. Consoles hardware are only for gaming, basically nothing else. They are also kinda bound to 'generations', yes its an advantage that the hardware/design is fixed, but thats also a disadvantage as were seven or more years bound to that same hardware.

 

[Remij]

PC is a different thing altogether, where there is hardware there will be games made for it somewhere. There will always be a need for local processing power either due to security or power etc. Consoles hardware are only for gaming, basically nothing else. They are also kinda bound to 'generations', yes its an advantage that the hardware/design is fixed, but thats also a disadvantage as were seven or more years bound to that same hardware.

Yep pretty much. The PC hardware market will need to exist regardless.. which is why I think that ultimately consoles go away, but PC gaming stays. Vendors will be needing to sell that hardware, and there will always be demand for it. Too many industries depend on it.

 

[orangpelupa]

Maybe console will simply become pc-like. Allowing other OS to be installed. Or at the very least, pc productive software (currently Xbox works fine with office via edge).

Basically making console like pre-built pc but with their own exclusive features / games.

 

[techuse]

No. Being able to sell your games to a constant userbase of 100s of millions of devices without the need to "start over" is far more desirable. Sony is probably kicking themselves that they can't sell large amounts of their back catalog to new users on their new devices... (at least not yet) They would be extremely happy to not have to build up a new userbase every generation... the reason why they did was because it was necessary to push the hardware envelope forward.

I never said Sony and MS would stop putting out a console-like box... They'll still have tons of their own devices out there that they can sell for a profit..

What performance are you even talking about? Small formfactor PCs can be far more powerful than consoles. A company like Sony or MS putting a pre-made SFF PC out there in place of their proprietary console will still get a massive discount on hardware from vendors they partner with..

As a result of all of it... I think the user experience on PC will improve as the market adopts to that change. Look at the work Valve is doing with Steam Deck. As well as those other handheld PC devices coming out. Of course there will be issues, but if you actually had the entire market working towards that goal, the overall user experience will improve rapidly from where it is on PC today.

Which PCs with the same form factor as consoles are more powerful? Laptops? They cost 4-5x the price and throttle. You're also ignoring the huge software benefit a closed, proprietary console provides. We have had that constant userbase of hundreds of millions for years now, PCs. Games still sell more on console.

 

[Nesh]

Fair points... but the console is going to go extinct whether they like it or not. They know where the industry is headed. They're essentially trying to delay the inevitable after this point.

The good news for them is that the efforts they are putting into the PC space are working towards that goal for them, even if it seems like a small thing at the moment.

Sony will eventually have their streaming service on everything. Phones, TVs, PCs, and any other devices with screens.. How long are they going to bother R&D'ing consoles and developing specifically for it... when they can release on everything?

Jim Ryan has already admitted that he's frustrated that they can't seem to reach more players only supporting their own devices... so they must branch out. Eventually I think the market gets to the point where your games go with you wherever you are.. and Sony can no longer justify all the effort that goes into a proprietary console.

Will they see that and get out ahead of it... or will they allow themselves to fall far behind the curve? We already know MS' intentions..

Once Sony goes the sreaming service thats when things will get tougher for them. It will be just another PC digital store.
The Playstation exists as a separate eco system. Every game bought on a playstation brings royalties and its why they are the big money bringers. How will the excuse the Playstation version for example of the newest Call of Duty vs the PC version over streaming?
A lot of games you can stream through PS Now already exist on PC with better settings, streamable or locally installed.
Its a big challenge that I am not sure how they will tackle.

 

[zed]

Yep pretty much. The PC hardware market will need to exist regardless.. which is why I think that ultimately consoles go away, but PC gaming stays. Vendors will be needing to sell that hardware, and there will always be demand for it. Too many industries depend on it.

Look at the numbers. Sorry couldnt find better console info, I assume the 8th gen i.e. ps4 & xb1& switch outsold 7th gen, i.e. its only been growing

contrast that with PC sales, yes it did have a bump recently because of covid but mainly its been going in the opposite direction
Why is this? I assume tablets/phones are taking away the need for a PC
Its even worse I assume if you look at just the richer countries, as not many consoles sold mainland asia or africa, but PCs are sold there

 

[Nesh]

Nintendo was such a bitch back then. They literally forced developers to make games only for them through monopolistic agreements. The master system couldnt cope. Sega was making their own versions of games that could not be released on their console. Namco had a very bad experience with them and took them to court. Nintendo responded with arrogance knowing that they will have no choice but return back to them. It is one of the reasons why they supported the Playstation so much and barely touched the N64 as a way of revenge. Such a shame Sega lost what they created during the 16 bit era from bad management.
It is very noteworthy how the Playstation brand expanded the industry. The total industry size during the 7th generation is almost the same as during the generation that the PS2 was king.
If Sony didnt make so many bad decisions during the 7th generation they might have still had most of the video game share, similar to PS2 size. Makes you wonder where things would have been now.

 

[PSman1700]

Look at the numbers. Sorry couldnt find better console info, I assume the 8th gen i.e. ps4 & xb1& switch outsold 7th gen, i.e. its only been growing

contrast that with PC sales, yes it did have a bump recently because of covid but mainly its been going in the opposite direction
Why is this? I assume tablets/phones are taking away the need for a PC
Its even worse I assume if you look at just the richer countries, as not many consoles sold mainland asia or africa, but PCs are sold there

Kinda skewed to take it like that i think. Consoles are only covering the gaming market, whereas the PC is covering much more than that. Look at PC gaming vs console gaming hardware related sales perhaps.

Anyway seems kinda stable for the global pc market overall, the somewhat dips can be explained due to mobile devices indeed. Not much to do with gaming perse.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Look at the numbers.

contrast that with PC sales,

I think you need to upgrade your data science skillz.

From looking at your numbers, Seventh gen sold a whopping ~235 million consoles. PC in its pre-Covid slump struggled to sell...260 million units...more than seventh gen...in one year.

So yeah, PC isn't seeing consoles' growth, but it's massively bigger. Mind-bogglingly, laughably so. You'd have to look at something like software sales by units to contrast the gaming landscapes and see how well PC does against consoles. Things like this show consoles remain top-dog and will for the foreseeable future for some publishers earnings:

While images like these show the wider landscape and consoles' dwindling significance, although in real terms it's bigger than ever, just gaming has expanded to new audiences who are dumb when it comes to paying for mobile titles:

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Aslong as we all stay friendly. What your seeing is just as you say, console gamers will love their platform, pc gamers theirs.

I feel like I may sound like the crazy one but I don't "love" either platform. They are just boxes, like my TV and laptop. They both have feature pros and cons and they are what the are. It's about liking or disliking, my actual day-to-day experience is that I am often slowed from playing games on PC because an update Steam has probably known about for days has been scheduled to update in a week's time. This is especially annoying when it's a game which cannot be run unless the latest updates are applied.

Ish. If you leave your console in standby. And even then only in theory as for some reason I don't get Apex updates in the background and have to launch the game for it to update. And I think only if PS+ subscribed, or has that changed?

Requiring PS+ to get automatic game updates was a thing that died with PS3. PS4 did not update all games but there was number, like the ten most popular (by playtime) or recently played games would get updated automatically. On PS4 you could disable automatic update if the game was running, in which case it would just download it ready to update and it would prompt you when you turned on the console next. So if you didn't play Apex Legends it would eventually drop off the list of games to get auto-updates unless it was also a game that had massive playtime.

On PS5 this has changed again. I've got most of my PS4 library on a 4Tb SSD and my PS5 games spread over the internal NVMe and a 2Tb NVMe drive and they all update automatically - which is visible in notifications.

I think the wider point is, where once consoles offered a flawless experience of put in disk/cart and play, versus PC's laughable requirement to juggle IRQs and DMAs and fart about with driver conflicts, now both are near the same ballpark of a store you can buy games on and play, and varying degrees of bad-luck and fringe-case issues making the experience not flawless on any machine, with more problems on Windows than console at the moment.

The consoles are generally more immediate. Even last generation you could suspend/resume almost all games, which meant playing for short periods were viable. As a parent this was without a doubt the most valuable feature of PS4 for me. The new generation of consoles are as good, whilst tossing in the bonus of offering better load times. Some games, like Spider-Man and Miles Morales and Ratchet & Clank on PS5 basically have load times of around 5 seconds. From menu into the game. No loading screens, no Unreal/Ubisoft/Havok splash screens - just BAM!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So if you didn't play Apex Legends it would eventually drop off the list of games to get auto-updates unless it was also a game that had massive playtime.

At the moment all I play is Apex.

 

[techuse]

All consoles sold are for the gaming market. Who knows what % of PCs or video cards sold are for gaming.