Windows 11 [2021]

ps: if you want to try win11 without loosing your current windows install
How to Install Windows 11 in a Virtual Machine
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-virtual-machine
well I did that, just the other way around.

Installed W11 where W10 used to be, then used the Reset option of Windows 11 to perform a clean install. Reset allows you to wipe an entire disk drive, which I wanted and install the OS like in a fresh install, but you dont lose your product key.

I am very happy with W11, it's beautiful beautiful beautiful. :smile2: Any flaw I find I report it using the feedback, but I shall never return to W10.
 
I rather prefer to have Windows 11 with as little apps installed as possible (only W11 store apps whenever possible), and trying to avoid Win32 .exe apps whenever I can. So...

I've created virtual machine with Hyper-V, in an external HD, I set it up to share files in the folders of said HD. Everything I don't trust, especially .exe 32-bit apps, they all go there.

Here the virtual machine with Windows 10 being updated.

ucNd0bn.png


I have the essential and important stuff and what I really use in Windows 11, and in the virtual machine everything for testing and being careless.
 
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It's not the same because they're doing it for an architectural reason and are unlikely to repeat that sort of hardware cut off again for a very long time.
If they announce Windows 12 in 3-4 years with more cpu gen cut offs, then yeah, it'd be the same thing. We should all get angry at that.
Or they just want to use the agenda of 'security' to make a second try with pushing DRM restrictions and denying users control of their own PCs, the new incarnation of Next-Generation Secure Computing Base (aka Palladium mentioned above), which was removed from Windows Longhorn after a significant backlash.

In that case, people should be angry right now - or maybe simply ignore Windows 11, since it won't even run on the majority of existing PCs anyway.

Even if it's not 1TB, I'm not sure how DirectStorage is supposed to work without specific GPU hardware support.

DirectStorage was designed to work in tandem with Tile Based Rendering and Sampler Feedback, as well as ZIP texture compression - these components make what they call Xbox Velocity Architecture and Sampler Feedback Streaming.
However DirectStorage does not really require the other parts - it's just a library designed for batch processing of multiple disk I/O requests, something they call 'Bypass IO' in the latest SDK.

There is a GameStack Live 2021 presentation on DirectStorage and a real-time 'Game Asset Streaming demo', which explain some of the details.

Vista/Longhorn at least had a fairly lengthy semi-public beta period, so it didn't get dropped on the world out of nowhere a matter of months from launch.
Yes, there were public community technical preview (CTP), beta, and release candidate (RC) builds released to public, so the high system requirements were known. But Longhorn also had a very troubled development cycle, which included a complete restart from scratch, so many new features were either removed or released in an unpolished state.

there were still a huge number of users with WinXP systems limping along with 256MB and were well overdue for an upgrade anyways, so the growing pains of Vista's introduction at least came with an improvement in daily usability just from the CPU and memory upgrade
It didn't really require a much faster CPU, but system memory and disk space/performance requirements were significant, especially for x64 editions. It should be telling that these requirements are still mostly valid 15 years after the initial release of NT 6.0 kernel - all subsequent releases, like Windows 7 (NT6.1), Windows 8.x (NT 6.1/6.2), Windows 10 (NT 6.4/10.0), and even Windows 11, did not substantially change them.
 
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Or they just want to use the agenda of 'security' to make a second try with pushing DRM restrictions and denying users control of their own PCs, the new incarnation of Next-Generation Secure Computing Base (aka Palladium mentioned above), which was removed from Windows Longhorn after a significant backlash.

In that case, people should be angry right now - or maybe simply ignore Windows 11, since it won't even run on the majority of existing PCs anyway.
Yeah, cause it's not like ransonware and nation state sponsored attacks are becoming an existential threat to modern infrastructure or anything. I'm sure they're entirely motivated by DRM concerns. /s

Users aren't going to ignore 11, all new systems will have it on them. Whether people upgrade now or when they replace their devices only matters so much, since they've been decoupling most of the app api surfaces from the OS. Also guarantee almost no one actually cares about whatever restrictions you're concerned about.
 
Yeah, I guess i'm not really interested in having a year 2009 DRM argument about Palladium. My comparison to Microsoft Palladium was all the underlying interesting technology around process isolation and (what was, at that time) a modern look at hardware-accelerated containerization.

A modern OS should be very focused on using all the modern tech we have available to protect itself from more highly funded, highly organized (and as pointed out above, even state sponsored) attacks. This isn't about DRM anymore; that war is long over.
 
I am all for the "hard-cut".
Let people stay on Win10...but restrict Win11 to proper (secure) hardware.
If they want a new "shiney"...they have to meet the minimum specs.
 
I am all for the "hard-cut".
Let people stay on Win10...but restrict Win11 to proper (secure) hardware.
If they want a new "shiney"...they have to meet the minimum specs.

MS has done very well with Windows 10 IMO, the best windows so far in its current state, and W11 only seems to improve things. The direct storage implementation was a very much needed one i think aswell as some other changes i have seen so far.
 
If directstorage was very much needed and Win11 has restrictive requirements then it should be ported back to Win10. What reason would any PC app or game developer have to learn it, support it, never mind build a game to really leverage it, if it cuts their prospective market with no upside. XBox's use of directstorage only impacts PC's adoption of it to the degree that AAA multi-platforms have influence on PC gaming. Look at the most played PC games on Steam or Twitch -- it's not like all the big games are console ports.
 
If directstorage was very much needed and Win11 has restrictive requirements then it should be ported back to Win10. What reason would any PC app or game developer have to learn it, support it, never mind build a game to really leverage it, if it cuts their prospective market with no upside. XBox's use of directstorage only impacts PC's adoption of it to the degree that AAA multi-platforms have influence on PC gaming. Look at the most played PC games on Steam or Twitch -- it's not like all the big games are console ports.

In a few months all new pcs sold will have windows 11. In a few months 90% of the people with pcs newer than 4 years old start to auto update to 11

What is the % of people with an nvme drive but not the capability to run windows 11 ?
"“DirectStorage requires an NVME SSD to store and play games that use the 'Standard NVM Express Controller' and DirectX12 GPU with support for Shader Model 6.0."

Current direct storage requirements.

So its requirements outside of windows 11 already cuts their prospective market. The reason developer will support it is simply that it will be the standard going forward and they will already support it in the xbox space.

It's in MS's best interest to incentivize peoples move to more modern hardware and windows 11. Why go through the hassle and expense to implement and support a new feature like that in a product that is going end of life in 4 years ?
 
If directstorage was very much needed and Win11 has restrictive requirements then it should be ported back to Win10. What reason would any PC app or game developer have to learn it, support it, never mind build a game to really leverage it, if it cuts their prospective market with no upside. XBox's use of directstorage only impacts PC's adoption of it to the degree that AAA multi-platforms have influence on PC gaming. Look at the most played PC games on Steam or Twitch -- it's not like all the big games are console ports.

You want a new shiney, met the requirements...problem solved.
 
"“DirectStorage requires an NVME SSD to store and play games that use the 'Standard NVM Express Controller' and DirectX12 GPU with support for Shader Model 6.0."

Current direct storage requirements.

DirectStorage requirements are whatever the requirements MS decides to impose for Windows 11 given that DirectStorage is exclusive to Win11. last I saw their messaging isn't clear as to what the status of Skylake, Skylake-X, Zen and Threadripper are (never mind all the plenty capable CPUs from the handful of generations previous to them).
 
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The reason you can install the preview on "lesser" hardware is so that MS can gather data on perfomance/issues on these CPU's...and see if their "cut" is placed the right place.
 
Not sure if already posted ...
After upgrading to Windows 11 you have 10 days to change your mind and restore (guru3d.com)
July 7, 2021
Microsoft is likely to release Windows 11 on October 20, with a lot of modifications and a big makeover. Users not pleased with the upgrade can go back to Windows 10 for 10 days.

It will preserve both files and data. Then consumers can build their own backup after which a clean operating system installation can still be carried out. The information is provided via the FAQ on the Microsoft homepage. At the very bottom of the questions, it says: "If I don't like Windows 11, can I return to Windows 10 after an upgrade?." The answer is this: "Yes. If you have installed the upgrade for Windows 11, you will be able to re-install files and data to Windows 10 for a 10-day period."

Don't worry, Windows 10 is still supported until October 2025, (if you are not a Windows 11 lover).
 
im confused. so if i installed game A B C and progressed to end game on those games on windows 11, then i rolled back to W10, do i still have those games installed and no progress missing?
 
I don't get the language either. You can only go back to windows 10 for 10 days? What happens after 10 days?
 
My comparison to Microsoft Palladium was all the underlying interesting technology around process isolation and (what was, at that time) a modern look at hardware-accelerated containerization.

Will you explain how hypervisor would offer increased isolation for user-mode processes whey they are already isolated with protection ring 3?

Hypervisor isolation of Docker containers is only required because Windows images have to include the OS kernel due to a lack of stable kernel API.

A modern OS should be very focused on using all the modern tech we have available to protect itself from more highly funded, highly organized (and as pointed out above, even state sponsored) attacks

I would understand the requirement for hypervisor-enabled processor (if this didn't specifically require a 2017-2018 model), but TPM 2.0? Thank you very much, I'm a home desktop user - not an U.S. Army employee who needs to carry around a 'secure' corporate notebook full of goverment 'secrets'; I don't need Microsoft or anyone else take control of my computer and deny me full access for the sake of my 'security'.

I'm already tired of Google peeking my page history then endlessly bogging me with targeted ads and feedback requests on my visited places, or having to jailbreak my Android phone to restore Chrome tabs lost by some random bug that persists for the last 10 years.


Yeah, cause it's not like ransonware and nation state sponsored attacks are becoming an existential threat to modern infrastructure or anything. I'm sure they're entirely motivated by DRM concerns.

It's not really hard to guess their motivation if you look at what Google and FaceBook have been doing. Trusted Computing / 'Secured-core PC' extends the original Palladium / NGSCB specs as explained above, and goes beyond DRM control of media content by adding TPM 'Remote Attestation' to allow code execution only on certain device configurations.


While this can be used to protect against virus/malware programs, cheating in online games, data theft from stolen devices, etc., the same technology is fully equipped to enforce content restrictions (DRM) and Internet censorship, deny users access to 3-rd party software, track user actions, remove access to already published documents, etc.


Essentially users have to trust some big corporation with full control of their systems - and if you really think Microsoft/Bing, Google/YouTube, Apple, FaceBook, Twitter etc. would do a really terrific job managing your devices and data, you must have been living on an island and missed all the recent data misuse and content censorship scandals.


Also guarantee almost no one actually cares about whatever restrictions you're concerned about.

Well, they should be. From the UEFI Plugfest 2015 presentaion Overview of Windows 10 Requirements for TPM, HVCI and SecureBoot - UEFI Spring Plugfest 2015 (PDF):

HVCI
• CI rules are still enforced even if a vulnerability allows unauthorized kernel mode memory access
• Memory pages are only marked executable if CI validation succeeds
• Kernel memory cannot be marked both writable and executable
• BUT impacts
– Driver compatibility
– UEFI Runtime services compatibility
Hardware Security
• This means the users physically in possession of a machine cannot easily modify it
• Includes:
– Platform Secure Boot
– Secure Firmware Updates
– Locking the BIOS menus
– Restricting Boot options
Device Guard and HVCI Ready Devices
• Virtualization extensions ON by default
• UEFI Runtime services compatible with HVCI
• BIOS locked down against Physical attacker
– Boot options
– Secure Boot
– Secure Firmware Updates​


That's the big problem with TCG / TPM - every user is treated like an adversary who shouldn't have full ownership of a device in his/her physical possession.

Security experts raised concerns for the way Trusted Computing removes users from actual control of their systems back when the specs were released, and these concerns are still legitimate almost 20 years later.

https://www.eff.org/wp/trusted-computing-promise-and-risk
https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/cs201/projects/trusted-computing/policy.html
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html
https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html


Experts thought Intel Management Engine was very suspicious even before its security flaws were discovered, and they were right.

https://www.wired.com/story/intel-management-engine-vulnerabilities-pcs-servers-iot/
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/...security-hazard-and-users-need-way-disable-it


Users aren't going to ignore 11, all new systems will have it on them.
Windows Vista and 8.x were also installed on new systems, and users either clean installed Windows XP and 7, or ordered previous versions / 'no OS' option. The reduced market share was showing in monthly Steam Hardware Surveys.

restrict Win11 to proper (secure) hardware. If they want a new "shiney"...they have to meet the minimum specs.
Yes, just act as if Windows 11 requirements didn't really cause any controversy. That surely worked for Windows Vista and 8.x.

 
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Will you explain how hypervisor would offer increased isolation for user-mode processes whey they are already isolated with protection ring 3?
Think about protecting the user from themselves. You can handwave this off at your own peril, it's still a problem. Having a hardware isolation for a root kernel, unrelated to the kernel servicing the user space (yes, I said and meant kernel, two copies) allows a computing base that is more secure than a simple user space isolation which breaks down when an uneducated user decies to permit bad behavior.
Hypervisor isolation of Docker containers is only required because Windows images have to include the OS kernel due to a lack of stable kernel API.
They're an option, not a mandate. I'm sorry you haven't figured this out. That's on you, not me.
I don't need Microsoft or anyone else take control of my computer and deny me full access for the sake of my 'security'.
The total number of uneducated users far exceeds the number of educated ones. Good on both of us for being educated, this is the future of commodity operating systems, Microsoft isn't going to be the only one.

Yes, just act as if Windows 11 requirements didn't really cause any controversy. That surely worked for Windows Vista and 8.x.
Nobody should be assuming there is no controversy. But let's take your point at face value: there was no hardware breakpoint for Win8, the complaints were about user interface. And for Vista where there was a hardware breakpoint? People bitched a lot, and then everyone STFU about it and upgraded when Win7 came along.

Which, by the way, Win7 was simply a point release over WinVista and nothing more.
 
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