Nanite realy shows you that you don't need Raytracing for good pictures. Normale lightining is good enough, but what you need that lighning is good is structure. Sturcture gives you small Shadows which make the game feels more realistic. If the light isn't 100% correct doesn't matter.
Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]
- Thread starter mpg1
- Start date
Nanite realy shows you that you don't need Raytracing for good pictures. Normale lightining is good enough, but what you need that lighning is good is structure. Sturcture gives you small Shadows which make the game feels more realistic. If the light isn't 100% correct doesn't matter.
No, the 7gb/s figure is just a value for data that exceeds the average compression ratio. You can get to 3:1 or even 4:1 with some data, but that is really not realistic on average.
Texture compression (e.g paddle texture) is extra as normally those formats don't need to get decompressed. Normally those formats can be directly used by the GPU. Therefore those loose some quality because the picture isn't 1:1 the same.
You just don't add these "gains" to the bandwidth as those are just not relevant.
And as far as is known, bcpack is something similar like oodle texture and contains new texture formats.
DegustatoR
Veteran
You do understand that Nanite is being lit by Lumen which in itself is using a form of raytracing?
It is cheated raytracing like everything else and they dont use RTX. Thats why lumen also run on Vega64.
DegustatoR
Veteran
Like what "everything"? There's not much of other engines doing lighting in the style of Lumen. In fact I'm not sure that anything besides CryEngine does.
They do use RTX, it's specified as the highest quality level of Lumen.
Path tracing can also run on Vega64, at 1 frame per hour.
In fact DXR can run on Vega64 too, just like it does on Pascal.
What is normal lighting? New fangled light propagation techniques like Lumen are far from "normal".
In any case it's really silly to talk about geometric complexity and realistic lighting as if they're competing features. I definitely notice shitty geometry and textures before I notice a lack of realistic GI or reflections though.
They are competating with shader resources and if you have the coice, go with more geometry and mdeium lightning than with medium geometry and very good lightning.
Every architect knows that atmosphere comes with geometry. If you look ouside your window and you see the sunlight on a simple gras feeld you don't find it intresting. But a forrest with a lots of shadows and more you find much more interesting.
Lumen is something between raytracing and normale lightning like it was done before. Fun Fact to run Nanite Demo with 30fps you need 5700xt or a 2080 . I don't rember taht 5700xt has raytacinge enabled.
If you look avatar game picture it shows you cleare the advantage of high geometry. Look at the fine shadows in the forest.
Source: Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora – First Look Trailer - YouTube
Every architect knows that atmosphere comes with geometry. If you look ouside your window and you see the sunlight on a simple gras feeld you don't find it intresting. But a forrest with a lots of shadows and more you find much more interesting.
Lumen is something between raytracing and normale lightning like it was done before. Fun Fact to run Nanite Demo with 30fps you need 5700xt or a 2080 . I don't rember taht 5700xt has raytacinge enabled.
If you look avatar game picture it shows you cleare the advantage of high geometry. Look at the fine shadows in the forest.
Source: Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora – First Look Trailer - YouTube
Attachments
Last edited:
Yes but you can also use Screen Space reflections & Global Illumination the result will look nearly the same. We will see how much is the difference between raytracing on and of i think the impact is minor like also in Cyberpunk.
Last edited:
DegustatoR
Veteran
This is completely art direction dependent. There's a Lego game launching soon where there's zero need to go with more geometry but an obvious upgrade from going with better lighting.
Architects don't do global illumination, it comes with the world itself. And what they know is that it's important to build geometry in a way which will create nice lighting. So not sure what creates atmosphere here but it certainly isn't just geometry.
No. Lumen is an approximation of ray tracing, a (computationally) simplified way of doing the same thing. There's nothing "like before" in Lumen. CryEngine's SVOGI is close but it wasn't used before much either.
Raytracing can be done on a i286 CPU.
Shadows are done with RT and GI, not geometry. You would get an image without shadows otherwise, and I doubt that you'd find it very appealing.
No, it's not. You won't be able to do proper lighting and shadowing in screen space. All SS approaches are breaking up in motion.
Geometry defines how the shadow looks like, without geometry you don’t have any shadows. That why houses which architects design never have straight walls. Geometry defines shadows, and if you look today at modern games like cyberpunk ray tracing is no big difference to old rendering methods.
Totally wrong. Global illumination should take into account global lighting state, not just something under your nose as with SSGI, this is probably the hardest problem to tackle via the screen space.
With screen space, you can only do very local small scale GI with tons of artifacts in a jungle setting (occlusion artifacts will be everywhere due to complex moving geometry and tons of backfaced geometry), such as in the Avatar game.
The thing is you need a combination of all technics . But today you can reach the same lightning quality with old render methods than with ray tracing.
DegustatoR
Veteran
You can't. That's why you have Lumen in the first place.
When a top tier graphics programmer thinks that diffuse lighting in cyberpunk is prebaked (it's not), that's the best compliment to the fully dynamic diffuse RT lighting in CP2077.
Pretty sure they are converting alpha transparent foliage to real geometry for RT, would be a pretty obvious optimization.
A Top Tear programmer which works for Gears 5 
And of cause if you make a leave out of Triangels instead of billboards it is totally clear why it’s faster because the area of a leave is smaller and more light ray can escape faster the scene.
And of cause if you make a leave out of Triangels instead of billboards it is totally clear why it’s faster because the area of a leave is smaller and more light ray can escape faster the scene.
Last edited:
hmm... Likely a graphics programmer has no big expectations on baked lighting in an open world game. Also, if the RT diffuse would look better the the 'normal' diffuse (idk), he should have noticed.
Converting alpha transparency to triangles is necessary to avoid invoking any hit shader, which would fetch texture to check for transparency and decide whether to trace ray further. That's the same problem as overdraw in rasterization. With real geometry for leaves, when ray hits the opaque geometry, you know that you don't need to trace it further, thus no overdraw and time savings.
He said that the likely baked Diffuse lighting looks like true area lights because there were 0 information on how the game handled area lights back then. After GTC presentation, we know that RT is used not just for GI from the sun and sky dome, but also for diffuse lighting from area lights. And this lighting is really very close to prebaked in quality.
Similar threads
- Locked
