Days Gone (Sony Bend) [PS4, PC]

[Silent_Buddha]

Well, it's been the bestseller on Steam since the PC version came out, so maybe...

Regards,
SB

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

The economy is in general problematic by design since it is profit driven. Everyone has to "cannibalize" from each other's income to get profit and thats exacerbated by the fact that growth is tight to the issue of debt, which adds even more pressure or incentive to increase profits at any costs. And the most "efficient" but destructive way to do that is to use the fast food model. Standardize to reduce cost, target urges that can be satisfied for the short term, use behavioral economics and psychological factors to dictate habitual consumption (its a myth that products/services are designed only around needs. They are designed to create or increase needs or their urges too), all at the expense of quality. The Fast Food industry grew immensely during the "good times", and they targeted on the fast access, limited time, work needs, parental insecurities due to limited time etc. They sacrificed health and the eating habits became unhealthy in many regions of the world because of that industry.
With these kind of industries the market changes to accommodate even more the "fast food" consumption. With entertainment and social media there are costs on the mental well being.
Quality and social benefit is many times "inefficient" in our economy. It requires more expensive processes, more time, more effort and when it comes to entertainment, sophistication is harder to digest, less likely to be consumed. So it is better to make people consume cheap, "brain dead" products and cultivate those habits.
You can see this becoming more and more apparent in music, games and movies.
This is why I am font of Bhutan's economic model, that focuses on Gross National Happiness instead of Gross National Product

I don't think the problem is capitalism. I think the problem is greed coupled with ineptitude.

People seeking to make a profit is absolutely fine by me. However, I find it contemptible when people try to make out like bandits at every turn. Especially when that's done by harming others.

Remember when a movie would be considered a success if it made 10's of millions (after marketing etc.) in profit? Those days are gone, and everything has to be a billion dollar blockbuster or it's considered dead in the water.

In my opinion, that's because the suits running these businesses don't know, understand, or love the industries that they're in. They just know how to count coins. So everything ends up purely financially driven rather than artistically. Ideally, it's a balance of both.

Kaz Hirai was a great balance of both. Phil Spencer is a great balance of both.

Don Mattrick was a coin counter. Jim Ryan is a coin counter.

And look what that ends up doing to their positions in creative industries.


There is also the matter of the widening gap between the haves and have nots. I do think that's a problem and a significant factor in this - more and more people have less and less money to spend on frivolities - but as pointed out by @ToTTenTranz that's more the purview of RPSC.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Remember when a movie would be considered a success if it made 10's of millions (after marketing etc.) in profit? Those days are gone, and everything has to be a billion dollar blockbuster or it's considered dead in the water.

In my opinion, that's because the suits running these businesses don't know, understand, or love the industries that they're in. They just know how to count coins. So everything ends up purely financially driven rather than artistically. Ideally, it's a balance of both.

Ok this isn't so much RPSC so I'll comment on that.
Part of the problem is not only those suits' (obvious and understandable) obligation to provide sufficient revenue, but also an immense pressure to continuously provide revenue growth, year after year.
That's how you grow from the acceptable threshold mark of say $40M in profits for an action movie in the 90s / early 00s to the ridiculous $400M of today, without an inflation that justifies it.


As for how this translates to Days Gone's sequel.. I don't think Sony expects all their 1st-party games to break 10 million sales. That was definitely not the case for AstroBot Rescue Mission (they only sold 5M PSVRs IIRC) or smaller titles like MediEvil.
Had Bend made a smaller, shorter to develop title with their old team size, then perhaps they had already achieved the threshold mark for greenlighting a sequel. However, considering how the studio grew up to over twice its size, they had to pay for an outsourced engine, they hired TV actors for voice and mocap, etc. then I guess the threshold needs to be pretty high.
The game directors already clarified that the game recouped its investment. But if it made a profit of "only" $20M out of a $100M investment then it's really risky to greenlight a sequel, because production costs are only going to be bigger and there's no guarantee that the franchise isn't going to lose money next time. It's a matter of proportion.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

As for how this translates to Days Gone's sequel.. I don't think Sony expects all their 1st-party games to break 10 million sales. That was definitely not the case for AstroBot Rescue Mission (they only sold 5M PSVRs IIRC) or smaller titles like MediEvil.
Had Bend made a smaller, shorter to develop title with their old team size, then perhaps they had already achieved the threshold mark for greenlighting a sequel. However, considering how the studio grew up to over twice its size, they had to pay for an outsourced engine, they hired TV actors for voice and mocap, etc. then I guess the threshold needs to be pretty high.
The game directors already clarified that the game recouped its investment. But if it made a profit of "only" $20M out of a $100M investment then it's really risky to greenlight a sequel, because production costs are only going to be bigger and there's no guarantee that the franchise isn't going to lose money next time. It's a matter of proportion.

Personally, I'd like to see them shift gears a bit with a sequel. I didn't think the story was particularly interesting or particularly well executed. It was fine, it was serviceable. It was also full of uninspired, cliché characters. Deacon I liked, but I could take or leave almost everyone else.

The hordes were the best part. Upgrading the bike and weapons was engaging. The scavenging and crafting were well implemented and fit the rest of the game.

I'd like to see less focus on a traditional story. Make it more akin to the Soulsborne games. Expand on the presence of bases, so I can fetch them better weapons, more ammo, and more materials for upgrading the place. Perhaps even just a single main objective, like in Zelda Breath of the Wild.

 

[Nesh]

I don't think the problem is capitalism. I think the problem is greed coupled with ineptitude.

People seeking to make a profit is absolutely fine by me. However, I find it contemptible when people try to make out like bandits at every turn. Especially when that's done by harming others.

Remember when a movie would be considered a success if it made 10's of millions (after marketing etc.) in profit? Those days are gone, and everything has to be a billion dollar blockbuster or it's considered dead in the water.

In my opinion, that's because the suits running these businesses don't know, understand, or love the industries that they're in. They just know how to count coins. So everything ends up purely financially driven rather than artistically. Ideally, it's a balance of both.

Kaz Hirai was a great balance of both. Phil Spencer is a great balance of both.

Don Mattrick was a coin counter. Jim Ryan is a coin counter.

And look what that ends up doing to their positions in creative industries.


There is also the matter of the widening gap between the haves and have nots. I do think that's a problem and a significant factor in this - more and more people have less and less money to spend on frivolities - but as pointed out by @ToTTenTranz that's more the purview of RPSC.

Thats how capitalism works. Capitalism is the economy that focuses on capital accumulation. Which comes from profit. Thus the system partly motivates such behaviors like greed, partly forces such behaviors (debt, real interests plus inflation, competition, risk). Then you have the people with artistic and creative vision trying to survive and get as much out of what the system provides. But from those that succeed, we dont see those that vanish or that will vanish by the new models.

If you want artistically, depth driven economy you have to revise the economic system, were capital accumulation aka counting coins as the primary purpose of investment and survival is outdated and you start focusing on the intangible and tangible values you are offering in society at large. Like Bhutan or the various small communities emerging in various parts of the world.

By principle anyone who is studying business is taught to increase profits and reduce risk. We had nobel prized economists too who were saying that the only purpose of the business is only to increase shareholder value. An idea that is challenged today by many proper economists.

Kaz Hirai wasnt doing it for art either, the PS brand has built an image throughout the decades starting from people who lived in the 80-00's, when the market was different. That used to be the majority of PS fans. Even if he was doing it for art it is irrelevant though. Now we have newer, younger generations of consumers who grew in different habits and experiences than us. The new generation of consumers are those spending hours on social media consuming short bursts of brain stimulation from junk information, "trends", people who are constantly on their screens and experiencing less the real world etc.

It is bound that free artistic expression and people who support them cannot be sustained and will be swallowed by those that meet the standards of the newer markets. Newer markets that move towards standardization for easier profits.

Free artistic expression isnt supported by profit driven economies. If they were free they wouldnt be bound by cost and benefit analysis. If I have the most amazing idea ever that require large resources but is niche it will be rejected. Tearaway was one of the most innovative and original games created on the Playstation. Yet it didnt get enough glamor.

When people sit on a board to make a business plan, they are checking how much it will cost and how much it will bring. They are running businesses with costs, debts, investors who want capital gains.

I and another colleague many times had a "heated" discussion with my manager about the games we make, telling him that we should try new and more creative things instead of the same old games cloned in different skins with similar themes, but we werent taken seriously because "we dont understand business".

There is still a place for great artistic games, but they are subject of pressure. They will be becoming either less, or more stadardized or gradually incorporating models that arent exactly desireable but can bring huge amounts of money nevertheless. See forced lootboxes and remakes and remasters.

See Tekken 7 for example. When you bought a fighting game in the past you had the complete thing. With Tekken 7 and the emergence of DLC a lot of very important features, stages and characters (including some popular legacy ones) are behind a paywall. A substantial amount if you count all. Harada originally said that the characters were going to be available to all. But the "ching ching" talks when the technology creates new and different opportunities for profit. It is probably the most profitable Tekken to date even though the single player modes are extremely lackluster and you have no access to a substantial amount of characters, stages and features. This is the "first" time people complain about fighting games so much, yet they spend more on them.

edit: Days Gone was an ambitious game, with lots of amazing ideas, some tough luck and initial issues, probably some not so great marketing, and the economy didnt bring much profit, even though a sequel might be the best zombie game ever, and the game has more work than some cheap uninspiring super successful games. You dont get a second chance easily if you cant prove the "ching ching" will be substantial.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Personally, I'd like to see them shift gears a bit with a sequel. I didn't think the story was particularly interesting or particularly well executed. It was fine, it was serviceable. It was also full of uninspired, cliché characters. Deacon I liked, but I could take or leave almost everyone else.

The hordes were the best part. Upgrading the bike and weapons was engaging. The scavenging and crafting were well implemented and fit the rest of the game.

I'd like to see less focus on a traditional story. Make it more akin to the Soulsborne games. Expand on the presence of bases, so I can fetch them better weapons, more ammo, and more materials for upgrading the place. Perhaps even just a single main objective, like in Zelda Breath of the Wild.

I agree that the game is unnecessarily long. It could have done extremely better without a bunch of the fetch quests that come up even within the main quest.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

The Good:

Good looking game
Story is well executed in a technical sense
Combat is well balanced, feels dangerous but accomplishable

The Bad:

Generic as fuuuuck concept. Look I know "Biker guy in The Walking Dead" might be right up your alley, but it's not a standout alley at all in concept, and that's is a problem I have with it.
Just plain bad sound design, nothing "sounds" right, way too much is just plain silent or missing for sound
Pretty bad open world design. "Leaving mission a-" anyone that thinks this is good game design in an open world game shouldn't be put in charge of such a thing (on a big scale). Like, this is basic, well established BS here. Combined with the open world feeling kinda dead (ironically), well...

Overall:

I can see why Sony didn't want a sequel. The game's director comes off as... well a slightly air headed and angry. Anecdote: Way before release I told him over twitter that "Biker guy in a zombie apocalypse open world game" with exactly zero obvious unique selling points story or gameplay wise wasn't the most attention grabbing concept in the whole world. So maybe throw something, anything, at it, some spin. He responded, but kind of negatively and seemed entirely oblivious to the game being generic as criticism. And while looking up something, I found he cut player decisions like in a BioWare game. He stated it was because, "Players didn't get it". Well they "didn't get it" because you failed at making them get it; Mass Effect 3 sold 7 million copies. That's an entirely respectable number even almost a decade later... like, c'mon, it's not "the players" fault here.

That being said... I'm having fun, I can see why other people had more so. I dunno, a sequel that took care of that problem I mentioned in the previous paragraph seems to me anyway like a good business proposition. Throw something at it. Go full Resident Evil or Kojima and throw bugfuck nuts plot points rather than "grounded" stuff, or Zach Snyder even and have robot zombies and zombie tigers and shit. Throw recruitable party members like a BioWare game. Just, something, that stands out gameplay and/or storywise. Sony Bend put a good amount of hard work into this, it doesn't feel like they deserve to be sluffed off as a "support" studio, at least not without another go around. At least, not if they can come up with a more interesting concept for that second go around.

 

[zed]

Pretty bad open world design. "Leaving mission a-" anyone that thinks this is good game design in an open world game shouldn't be put in charge of such a thing (on a big scale).

what do you mean here?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

what do you mean here?

Open world game
+
You are leaving the mission area warnings during missions.

It's just kind of weird in an open world game.

I have to agree with a streamer that I watch. The story is great. It's too bad that the first ~25% of the game is boring as F*** so a lot of people quit the game before the story can actually hook you.

[edit] Also, 60 FPS + KBM controls = guns actually feel pretty decent in game now.

Regards,
SB

 

[milk]

The Good:

Good looking game
Story is well executed in a technical sense
Combat is well balanced, feels dangerous but accomplishable

The Bad:

Generic as fuuuuck concept. Look I know "Biker guy in The Walking Dead" might be right up your alley, but it's not a standout alley at all in concept, and that's is a problem I have with it.
Just plain bad sound design, nothing "sounds" right, way too much is just plain silent or missing for sound
Pretty bad open world design. "Leaving mission a-" anyone that thinks this is good game design in an open world game shouldn't be put in charge of such a thing (on a big scale). Like, this is basic, well established BS here. Combined with the open world feeling kinda dead (ironically), well...

Overall:

I can see why Sony didn't want a sequel. The game's director comes off as... well a slightly air headed and angry. Anecdote: Way before release I told him over twitter that "Biker guy in a zombie apocalypse open world game" with exactly zero obvious unique selling points story or gameplay wise wasn't the most attention grabbing concept in the whole world. So maybe throw something, anything, at it, some spin. He responded, but kind of negatively and seemed entirely oblivious to the game being generic as criticism. And while looking up something, I found he cut player decisions like in a BioWare game. He stated it was because, "Players didn't get it". Well they "didn't get it" because you failed at making them get it; Mass Effect 3 sold 7 million copies. That's an entirely respectable number even almost a decade later... like, c'mon, it's not "the players" fault here.

That being said... I'm having fun, I can see why other people had more so. I dunno, a sequel that took care of that problem I mentioned in the previous paragraph seems to me anyway like a good business proposition. Throw something at it. Go full Resident Evil or Kojima and throw bugfuck nuts plot points rather than "grounded" stuff, or Zach Snyder even and have robot zombies and zombie tigers and shit. Throw recruitable party members like a BioWare game. Just, something, that stands out gameplay and/or storywise. Sony Bend put a good amount of hard work into this, it doesn't feel like they deserve to be sluffed off as a "support" studio, at least not without another go around. At least, not if they can come up with a more interesting concept for that second go around.

Yeah, I feel like every member of the team I always saw giving out interviews seemed like a clone of the same type of guy. Basically, beer-bellied dads that are into rock-n'-roll classics and hot rods... Like, the most cliche type of dad in existance. The game is a perfect reflection of its makers.

 

[zed]

Open world game
+
You are leaving the mission area warnings during missions.

It's just kind of weird in an open world game.

I dont see whats too bad with this, unless they actively prevent you from leaving an area
But telling someone that maybe you dont wanna go too far away from the item you are looking for could prevent player frustration

 

[Deleted member 11852]

You are leaving the mission area warnings during missions.

It's just kind of weird in an open world game.

This happens in GTA, Red Dead Redemption, Far Cry, Watch Dogs and many more. I feel I see this warning way too much in open world games.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

The Good:

Good looking game
Story is well executed in a technical sense
Combat is well balanced, feels dangerous but accomplishable

IMO you're missing Sam Witwer's top notch voice and mocap acting. I think he's probably undergoing physical rehab on his lower back from carrying the game on his shoulders so much.

I can see why Sony didn't want a sequel. The game's director comes off as... well a slightly air headed and angry. Anecdote: Way before release I told him over twitter that "Biker guy in a zombie apocalypse open world game" with exactly zero obvious unique selling points story or gameplay wise wasn't the most attention grabbing concept in the whole world. So maybe throw something, anything, at it, some spin. He responded, but kind of negatively and seemed entirely oblivious to the game being generic as criticism. And while looking up something, I found he cut player decisions like in a BioWare game. He stated it was because, "Players didn't get it". Well they "didn't get it" because you failed at making them get it; Mass Effect 3 sold 7 million copies. That's an entirely respectable number even almost a decade later... like, c'mon, it's not "the players" fault here.

Agreed. I liked John Garvin's interview, but he does come off as the artistic type that doesn't really understand how others can see things differently than him.
Maybe he's better suited for directing smaller, niche games than he is for titles that need to sell >8M copies to get decent profits.

 

[Seanspeed]

Anecdote: Way before release I told him over twitter that "Biker guy in a zombie apocalypse open world game" with exactly zero obvious unique selling points story or gameplay wise wasn't the most attention grabbing concept in the whole world. So maybe throw something, anything, at it, some spin. He responded, but kind of negatively and seemed entirely oblivious to the game being generic as criticism

So from his perspective, what he sees is just some random person on Twitter ranting at him that his game is generic before they've ever even played it.

The game also had a very, very clear unique gameplay selling point. The whole announcement and gameplay demo couldn't have emphasized it more.

Also, I really doubt Sony handwaived a sequel because it was too generic a game. They are the ones who greenlit the original in the first place, after all. You seem to think, "Oh I had these criticisms of it so Sony must have seen the same thing and we're both totally on the same page". When it seems more likely that Sony just didn't like that the game didn't get a better Metacritic average. They seem very brand-conscious nowadays and feel the need to maintain a certain reputation.

 

[swaaye]

To me it felt like they didn't have a great plan for what to do to compellingly develop the story and characters. That or a lot of content was cut.

The atmosphere and overall gameplay are pretty solid, and the hordes were a great time.

It might be worthwhile to compare the open world to FarCry 5 but I don't particularly like FarCry 5 so....nah lol. Far Cry has more "life" but it really just feels synthetic. So maybe empty is better.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Title probably should be updated to reflect the existence of a PC version.

Anyway, I bought it at launch just to reward them for doing such a reportedly good PC port, but now that I have a little time, I started to play it (even though I likely won't come even close to finishing it) just to see it in action for myself.

Still in the beginning (basically the tutorial) and the whole "you are leaving the mission area" is getting REALLY annoying. I just wanted to move around a rock to approach the enemies from a different direction and I get ... "you are leaving the mission area." C'mon, seriously? I just want to move around this freaking rock. I'm not even close to leaving the mission area. Aaauuuuugggghhhhh.

MGS V did such a better job with handling missions in an open world environment.

That said, the port is actually really good. The one place where many PC ports mess up is the key bindings (here's looking at you Yakuza: Like a Dragon) and they even got that right without any hidden un-changeable key binds. Kudos.

So far, mechanics feel solid. Even the shooting feels "appropriate" at the start. Not a fan of the QTE's in the game, but meh, it's at least not super annoying.

Graphics hold up nicely as well. So, even if I never finish this, it's money well spent, IMO, to support a quality PC port.

But, goddamn the leaving mission area messages are ANNOYING.

Regards,
SB

 

[goonergaz]

Title probably should be updated to reflect the existence of a PC version.

Anyway, I bought it at launch just to reward them for doing such a reportedly good PC port, but now that I have a little time, I started to play it (even though I likely won't come even close to finishing it) just to see it in action for myself.

Still in the beginning (basically the tutorial) and the whole "you are leaving the mission area" is getting REALLY annoying. I just wanted to move around a rock to approach the enemies from a different direction and I get ... "you are leaving the mission area." C'mon, seriously? I just want to move around this freaking rock. I'm not even close to leaving the mission area. Aaauuuuugggghhhhh.

MGS V did such a better job with handling missions in an open world environment.

That said, the port is actually really good. The one place where many PC ports mess up is the key bindings (here's looking at you Yakuza: Like a Dragon) and they even got that right without any hidden un-changeable key binds. Kudos.

So far, mechanics feel solid. Even the shooting feels "appropriate" at the start. Not a fan of the QTE's in the game, but meh, it's at least not super annoying.

Graphics hold up nicely as well. So, even if I never finish this, it's money well spent, IMO, to support a quality PC port.

But, goddamn the leaving mission area messages are ANNOYING.

Regards,
SB

Weird, I can't recall such issues and I got the platinum on it...great game, bit slow to get going (and maybe that's the issue?).

 

[Roger Cobb]

Thanks to this game and my use of the bear and wolf emojis, the well known YouTuber called Michael Does Life never has a safe trip into the woods anymore.

You need to watch his streams to know what I'm referring to.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Played this some more since it's kind of like an open world game that isn't really an open world game. Meaning, there's not a ton of side quests, not a ton of side content, etc. There's a main quest and a few side quests. So, there's not much to distract from the main story. And unlike what I watched back when Cohh and Bikeman were playing this on PS4, fast travel on PC is super fast unlike the PS4, so getting around isn't as much of a laborious chore as it was for them.

But OMG, fuck off with the "Leaving Mission Area" shit already. The game just killed me off because I saw something neat while riding the motorcycle during a mission because I saw something neat and just wanted to see it. Leaving mission area message pops up so I turn the motorcycle around but since it's moving faster than walking speed, I can't turn around fast enough and the game just killed me off and resets me back a few minutes in the mission. @Q#%@#$@#%$#%. I hate that shit.

It's things like that, and some other things that bring this game back to mediocrity despite there being a compelling story and the makings of what could have been a really good game.

Also, there's so many rendering artifacts. At times the game can look breathtakingly good, and at other times there's so many rendering artifacts (banding in clouds, light halos and distortion around characters, weird fur rendering that looks like shit if viewed up close like in some mini-cutscenes, etc.) that it just distracts from what they are trying to showcase. It's absolutely bizarre because a lot of this isn't visible during normal gameplay, it's mostly during non-gameplay segments where you'd think they could do something so the rendering quirks aren't in your face, but augh. Such a mixed bag.

I can possibly see myself finishing this if I have time since it's kind of like an "on rails" open world game. The story being fairly well done certainly helps with it. Hopefully, the game doesn't continue with the torture porn that it seems to revel in.

It's unfortunate that Days Gone 2 was kiboshed by Sony. It would have been interesting to see what a second game would be like with the development team learning from their experience in Days Gone.

Regards,
SB

 

[swaaye]

These Sony backed games sure do get the updates!



Days Gone PS4/PS5 – Patch 1.80

This update is live now on PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 5 across all regions

PATCH NOTES

Performance Improvements

· Various crash fixes

· General improvements to stability and optimization

Progression Blockers

· Addressed multiple mission blockers

· Fixed blocker where you can get locked in Iron Mike’s cabin in mission “Riding Nomad”

Approximate download size: 20GB

UPDATE (10/4 at 1:33PM PDT): The reason for the size of the patch is due to mission data updates. Note: This patch download will replace existing data, taking up minimal additional space on your drive after install.