Aren't all storage devices still maximized with sequential read in mind? Should emulation cause that much chaos that it's hardware advantage of nearly 100x the speed is dissipated?
Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]
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Maybe we are talking about different things. I was thinking file system like NTFS/exFAT/APFS/XFS, but re reading your posts are you referring to how the games are packaged? Or are you saying that PS4 games are like disk images of a different file system on PS5's native storage?
D
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Both. The filesystem is going to be different, the PS5 hasn't been out six months and Sony have already changed the extended (external) filesystem to accommodate storing PS5 games which tells you everything you need to know how much it's changed. If they are just introduced a few extra XTTR that would not have broken compatibility with external drives on PS4 and Sony obviously don't want to haver to update PS4 to know how to deal with archived PS5 games.
Exactly how different PS5's filesystem is from PS4 will be known when the NVMe drive interface is enabled and a drive can be formatted, removed and dissected. We know games are packaged differently because Mark Cerny explained the differences in his Road to PS5 talk.
Possibly, yes. The exact implementation isn't known but it would make more sense if there is a dynamically-sized 'PS4 image' for the internal drive. If you use game-sized images you have no space in which to expand PS4 games during updates. Somy used BSD for PS3 and PS4 and it seems likely they are again with a logical ask
Yes this is a very bad look for the PS5.
Are there any comparisons of true ps5 games running on internal vs external?
snc
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you can't run native ps5 games on external disk but we see that ps4pro with external ssd is quite similar to external ssd on ps5 so for example we can check resident evil 8 on ps4 pro using external ssd, on ps5 we have around 2s to load game, good luck with even fastest existing external ssd to catching this up
Well not really. The only thing that could explain this are latencies, that seem to be lower on the external device. That can have something to do with the device having DRAM (and the internal SSD hasn't), so they might be some requests that get their data directly from the DRAM and therefor the latencies are much lower.
On the other had with have the additional priority-logic sony made on top. This might lead to higher latencies if those aren't managed right.
Also the PS5 uses 6 chips to get the combined speed. So every single chip might be slower than the ones in the external device which could also lead to higher latencies. Small read-reuqest could therefore lead to less efficient bandwidth usage on the internal SSD.
But I guess it has something to do with DRAM + priority-logic.
Would be great if DF could test with an external SSD that does not have DRAM on board.
That would be a great test for curiosity's sake but that goes against the obligations of humanity to never buy SSDs without a DRAM cache.
First question that pops into my mind, is that PS4 video done on a PS5 or a PS4. But still cool.
It's not apple to apple, but it's new vs old way of doing things. Not only quicker storage medium, but deduplication and what if they did more optimisations like they did with Spiderman and stored less data, due to more CPU power could calculate stuff they used to store.
Other tings could be in there, that we do not know about. I would assume Spiderman MM would be current state of the art optimised for PS5 storage use.
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00:00:00 Introduction
00:00:51 The Last of Us Remake / Days Gone 2 Cancelled?
00:11:42 PS5 Firmware Update
00:17:58 Mass Effect Legendary Edition Trailer
00:21:59 Nvidia GTC: Announcements, Presentations and Technology
00:35:39 DF Content Discussion: Shadowman DF Retro EX
00:39:33 The Next DF Developers
00:45:17 Patreon Supporter Q+A
ditto on System Shock 2 as being a revelatory game.
Natural selection was also incredible.
The golden age of game design is now gone =( Too much uniformity today.
VGA Planets was really intense for those that managed to play it.
OK so no native ps5 games on external, I can understand that for games that are streaming the world in as performance cant be guaranteed (this will become more common in future) as this will make the game look broken and ppl will complain, but the vast majority of current games they load the data/level first. I betcha in future someone hacks this so you can run a ps5 game from external drive.
So I take it ps4 can run games from external no probs, its only ps5 they placed this restriction on, Im guessing thats cause developers would not be streaming in games and the internal drive is prolly the shittiest one you can get so whatevers plugged in will most likely be better.
So I take it ps4 can run games from external no probs, its only ps5 they placed this restriction on, Im guessing thats cause developers would not be streaming in games and the internal drive is prolly the shittiest one you can get so whatevers plugged in will most likely be better.
I'd guess that the culprit lies in the PS4 Compatibility Mode. We already know it throttles down somewhat from the PS5 "full" power, it may throttle down I/O as well. Remember how back-compat games loaded faster on the Series X? To my knowledge the Series X exposes its full power in back-compat mode.
This hard-limit on I/O may not be present for external drives due to the PS4 being able to boot games externally as well, so no reason to throttle that
According to insomniac, they found during the making/testing of spiderman, that shittier drives than the default ones from Sony was quite commen.
Which is why they had to limit the max rate they could stream data at.
Which also indicates that streaming data on PS4 is quite normal.
Yes, you can run PS4 games from the external drive on a PS5.
I assume that some/many PS5 games would work just fine from external drive to. But to make sure you avoid issues like the PS4 Spiderman issue, you just set a strict limit. Also the backlash/outrages if some games can be played from external and others not. In addition will the developers restrict themselves, like insomniac did with Spiderman on PS4, if they allow it? That would negate the superduper fabulous ssd they put in
There should be no reason to throttle IO for backwards compatibility.
The only reason why xbox series x might be faster, when loading BC titles might be the faster CPU. When not using "hyperthreading" (or how this is called today ^^), the CPU frequencies go even higher. BC titles don't need hyperthreading, because those games got optimized for 6,5-7 much slower cores. So cpu-based decompression can be done a bit faster (which is not bottlenecked by the IO) and therefore overall the loading times get reduced.
Even if sony would have some kind of IO-API layer between this, it would be more or less just pointing to the storage. Nothing more. This shouldn't cost much IO-speed at all. Else we would have a big problem with virtualized machines for ages now. I would even go so far and claim, that not even an SSDs with 200MB/s would limit be a limiting factor for BC titles, as far as the latencies are low enough.
But in the end, this is just a theoretical "luxury"-problem.
It does not. The hardware is not fully exposed via the old APIs and the same old troubled with overhead I/O system is still used.
I believe BC mode grants access to the full clockspeed and the full number of CUs but everything else is locked in place. This is more or less the same as PS5 in this regard. Both are also stuck using GCN microcode over RDNA2
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DF Written Article @ https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-evil-village-demo-tested-on-all-playstations
Resident Evil Village demo tried and tested on PlayStation 5, PS4 and Pro
What's really going on with the '45fps' modes?
Last weekend, Capcom unleashed the first in a series of time-limited demos for Resident Evil Village. First up, we got to see the Village demo for PS4, Pro and PlayStation 5, with the promise of a Castle demo next week on the same systems, followed by a multi-platform release for both segments the week after. We took a look at the initial demo to see how Capcom plans to scale the game across the generations, what the ray tracing looks like, and how performance stacks up. Going into this, the developer told us to expect 45fps on certain consoles and game modes - confused messaging we can clear up having gone hands-on.
So, one demo, three systems and a total of five different play variations to get through - but that proved relatively easy. The truth is, there isn't much to the Village demo. There's a small exploration segment to begin with, but we quickly segue into what is effectively a series of cutscenes linked together with the most minimal of player interactions. The demo is effective in demonstrating the power and versatility of the RE Engine, it gives us strong indications of how beautiful the final game will be but as an actual sampler for the experience, it's minimal.
...
Resident Evil Village demo tried and tested on PlayStation 5, PS4 and Pro
What's really going on with the '45fps' modes?
Last weekend, Capcom unleashed the first in a series of time-limited demos for Resident Evil Village. First up, we got to see the Village demo for PS4, Pro and PlayStation 5, with the promise of a Castle demo next week on the same systems, followed by a multi-platform release for both segments the week after. We took a look at the initial demo to see how Capcom plans to scale the game across the generations, what the ray tracing looks like, and how performance stacks up. Going into this, the developer told us to expect 45fps on certain consoles and game modes - confused messaging we can clear up having gone hands-on.
So, one demo, three systems and a total of five different play variations to get through - but that proved relatively easy. The truth is, there isn't much to the Village demo. There's a small exploration segment to begin with, but we quickly segue into what is effectively a series of cutscenes linked together with the most minimal of player interactions. The demo is effective in demonstrating the power and versatility of the RE Engine, it gives us strong indications of how beautiful the final game will be but as an actual sampler for the experience, it's minimal.
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