AMD Radeon RDNA2 Navi (RX 6500, 6600, 6700, 6800, 6900 XT)

[PSman1700]

he RTX 3060 should be within the same performance bracket as the RX 6700 but it has 12GB.

Await reviews and benchmarks, dont think they are in the same performance bracket.

Of course, constantly pushing for derailing the discussion into "Ampere has best RT" and "DLSS is king" is fair play. However, bringing up actual RDNA2 GPUs in the RDNA2 thread that will probably sell >10x more than Ampere and are therefore likely become the focus for multi-platform developers in the medium-long term should be considered cheating.

PS5 aint a full RDNA2 GPU to begin with, its a on-SoC design and has nothing or not much to do with the pc dGPU market. Also, i'd guess not many pc gamers are all that intrested in a 10TF RDNA1 hybrid2 RX5700XT performance class GPU.
Multiplat games will be designed towards XSX, XSS, PC. In modern times we have some good scaling going on. Games will be just be adjusted and scaled down whenever theres a PS5 port at play.

Or AMD will successfully fight back on the "better RT performance is the best" narrative and promote a more cautious/effective approach to RT overall instead of fighting Nvidia's number-of-rays-per-second war.

Wonder how when NV kinda covers both of those.

Its just unfortunate that PS5 kinda missed the boat. Now we have to deal with a cut and clocked down Zen2, a GPU that roughly matches a mere RX5700XT from 2019 which was midrange compared to competitors that year. 16GB GDDR6 )not X) total and a NVME thats already surpassed. Add to that we basically have no games this year. Meh.

 

[JoeJ]

Also, i'd guess not many pc gamers are all that intrested in a 10TF RDNA1 hybrid2 RX5700XT performance class GPU.
Multiplat games will be designed towards XSX, XSS, PC.

Its just unfortunate that PS5 kinda missed the boat. Now we have to deal with a cut and clocked down Zen2, a GPU that roughly matches a mere RX5700XT

It's time to wake up and realize gaming no longer works with the current high end process.
The only platforms that make sense at the moment is current gen.
RT came years too early, and ML is [censored]. It's interesting to discuss, but that's it.

Add to that we basically have no games this year. Meh.

We'll have plenty of games. It's just that > 1000$ HW does not make them more fun.

 

[JoeJ]

Equating RT to tessellation is an amateur generalization and not a very educated point of view at all.

It's just an example of technology being utilized more or less than hoped in practice. Calling this 'amateurish' is just hostile for no reason.

I wonder why you understand limitations of TS so well, while being blind to those of RTX, which are orders of magnitudes worse. AMD does way better here, i'm just unsure this will show up.

 

[PSman1700]

It's time to wake up and realize gaming no longer works with the current high end process.
The only platforms that make sense at the moment is current gen.
RT came years too early, and ML is [censored]. It's interesting to discuss, but that's it.

Well, wake up and realize you absolutely dont need high end hardware to exceed whats in the PS5. 'Current gen' is anywhere from a 3060/6700(xt) to a 6900XT/3090, for now. Basically, any of these are better-specced then the PS5 gpu.

RT too early, doubt it. On the contrary, seeing what ray tracing enables for games like CP2077 its certainly not 'too early'. PS5 clearly just missed the boat having to part with a 10TF gpu that also 'can do ray tracing'. We then end up with RT thats basically subpar and then restricted to reflections. Look at spiderman/exclusives.

Same story for DLSS 2.0, what it enables performance and image quality wise couldnt even be dreamed of some years ago. Again something where PS5 clearly missed the boat, as with Zen2 as opposed to Zen3 (which some believed it shared arch with).

Your sitting with a practically a RDNA1 hybrid RDNA2 GPU, which in normal raster performance is close to a RX5700XT, ray tracing performance close to a 2060(s) which isnt enough even today, not forgetting the omittance of hardware ML support. GPU wise, its on the low-end spectrum in pure raster performance, both NV and AMD's lowest current performance GPUs (6700 and 3060) are already more capable or in worst case match it. Paired to a cut and clocked down previous-gen zen2 CPU that has to part with the GPU using variable clocks, matched with a mere 16gb total system ram which bandwith is shared with everything else.

If RT 'came too early' and ML is so bad you have to use bad language for it, one can wonder why both the consoles went with a subpar variant of it, and try to come with software ML solutions now.
.

 

[tsa1]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375387215463858177

I guess Steve & Tim are full steam ahead for the second nVidia ban, although this peculiariy of nV GPUs was known for a while (since 2015, I guess) but somehow tech-tubers or journalists never really paid attention to it (probably an artefact of "removing all possible bottlenecks" approach to the benchmarking).

 

[dskneo]

The best recap on the situation was on the russian website gamegpu.com
https://gamegpu.com/блоги/sravnenie-protsessorozavisimosti-geforce-i-radeon-v-dx12

In general, we will try to comment on all this in some way: of course, we will not pretend that we did not know about this situation for the last 6 years (since the first games on DX12 appeared), but it always seemed strange to us that no one ever did this. did not touch - not a single blogger, not a single publication (except, of course, GameGPU, but dry numbers are given here, and not everyone "twists" the charts and notices this tendency). But at one time, only the lazy did not discuss the high processor dependence of the Radeon in DX11, where it really took place, and was confirmed by tests many times. But why was it actively discussed then, and as if on purpose they are silent now? In our opinion, this is a fundamentally wrong approach, because if there is a problem, it needs to be solved, and old Jen Sung knows how to solve problems like no one else.
It's time to realize that the era of low-level api has come, the layouts have turned backwards, but so far many inattentive publications and bloggers continue to recommend GeForce for weak processors, and continue to mention the high processor dependence of Radeon, either out of ignorance, or for some other reason. a reason unknown to me.

They nailed it.

 

[Deleted member 90741]

I guess Steve & Tim are full steam ahead for the second nVidia ban, although this peculiariy of nV GPUs was known for a while (since 2015, I guess) but somehow tech-tubers or journalists never really paid attention to it (probably an artefact of "removing all possible bottlenecks" approach to the benchmarking).

Why did you post this on RDNA2 thread? Steve and Tim ban has nothing to do with RDNA2

 

[Bondrewd]

Why did you post this on RDNA2 thread?

This involves RDNA2 also, but whatever.

 

[DegustatoR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375387215463858177

I guess Steve & Tim are full steam ahead for the second nVidia ban, although this peculiariy of nV GPUs was known for a while (since 2015, I guess) but somehow tech-tubers or journalists never really paid attention to it (probably an artefact of "removing all possible bottlenecks" approach to the benchmarking).

This hasn't really affected Nv earlier because there were no GPUs fast enough to be that obviously CPU limited in latest D3D12 titles. It's not a big issue right now either but it may become one eventually, so definitely something for Nv to look into.

 

[JoeJ]

Well, wake up and realize you absolutely dont need high end hardware to exceed whats in the PS5. 'Current gen' is anywhere from a 3060/6700(xt) to a 6900XT/3090, for now. Basically, any of these are better-specced then the PS5 gpu.

RT too early, doubt it.

I mean something different, it's not about general critique on GPU features or APIs this time. I'm worried about PC as a platform as a whole.
When Turing was released, most people found it too expensive, and the win on IQ from RT did not justify the price. Also, without RT, there simply is no need for DLSS.
Likley most of them have postponed an update. RDNA1 was neither attractive feature wise nor was its price.
Now we have good GPUs from both vendors which we can't buy for a whole year. The whole GPU generation is lost, more or less. We also have more RT games, but the win on IQ still is often hard to see, and prices are even worse.
Still no RT on entry level (with entry level i min GPUs < 200$) Pretty bad situation, people are pissed about HW. They were pissed about 'console ports is all we get' before already.

On the other hand we have a lot of attention and hype from tech press and forums like this on those unavailable / overpriced features.
Currently, we do not do ourselves a favor by putting the focus there. It only hurts the industry, and not even NV can profit, because advertisement and marketing is not necessary. They'll sell the 3 GPUs they can produce no matter what.
From the gamers perspective we have a two classes society: Rich gamers who can afford, regular ones who can not. Even more pissed.
Result: Switch to console (which is overpriced on street too), quit gaming completely, or have patience.
We should focus on the latter point IMO. There are no other options.

Currently, PC gaming feels like Titanic. Praising new high end features at high prices is like nipping champangne and looking up to the sky, while ignoring the iceberg ahead.

For consoles it's not so much better. If we had known what's coming, sticking at 12nm and postponing things like RT would have been the better option. I don't believe Sony when they say PS5 is fastest selling console ever.

Well, i feel sorry for my recent depression but can't help it. I still believe in RT, and i also believe in a future for ML in games. Technically. But for now damage control is all that counts. At first it seemed gaming could even profit from the crisis, but obviously it does not.

 

[Bondrewd]

Currently, PC gaming feels like Titanic. Praising new high end features at high prices is like nipping champangne and looking up to the sky, while ignoring the iceberg ahead.

Eh, that's the next gen.

For consoles it's not so much better. If we had known what's coming, sticking at 12nm and postponing things like RT would have been the better option.

Nothing would change; consoles and laptop SoCs are heavily impaced by substrate laminate shortages and overall gigantic lead times at Taiwan OSATs.

I don't believe Sony when they say PS5 is fastest selling console ever.

And Cezanne is the fastest ramping AMD mobile chip in their history.
Semis demand is outright nuts.
Bleeding edge, trailing edge, analog, packaging; even raw 200mm wafers are in short supply.

 

[DegustatoR]

At first it seemed gaming could even profit from the crisis, but obviously it does not.

It does and it doesn't. All gaming related sales are at an all time high but this comes with a cost of games being delayed and market changes related to actual pricing and availability. PC gaming is loosing right now due to mining and production constraints but it may recover once all these mining rigs will start to be sold off for peanuts.

 

[PSman1700]

I'm worried about PC as a platform as a whole.

There should be more concern towards console gaming, as its on the verge of being replaced or better said, converted by/into services.

without RT, there simply is no need for DLSS.

Depends what kind of hardware is being used. A lower end GPU might very well use DLSS tech to reach higher performance levels while keeping desired settings, even withour RT.
Especially down the line, when more and more games lend towards next gen visuals.

RDNA1 was neither attractive feature wise nor was its price.

Agree and RDNA2 did make improvements though, its still quite much behind. That doesnt make them un-attractive, a 6800/XT for example, a raster monster at around 20TF or more with 16gb dedicated fast vram is attractive if priced well.

Now we have good GPUs from both vendors which we can't buy for a whole year. The whole GPU generation is lost, more or less. We also have more RT games, but the win on IQ still is often hard to see, and prices are even worse.

This hardware craze is practically going on for PS5 aswell to the point it has become a meme. Its basically impossible now to get ahold of one. It seems that this problem isnt in isolation to juset GPU hardware.
Also, i do think (as does DF) that RT really does make a difference, large enough to justify the performance, in special with DLSS. CP2077 at night 4k60 with the higher RT settings across the board looks exeptional.

Result: Switch to console (which is overpriced on street too), quit gaming completely, or have patience.
We should focus on the latter point IMO. There are no other options.

Switch to what, XSX/PS5 which cant be bought either? Both pc and console are in the same boat now. Its not either that console game has gotten cheaper, not even right out of the box, as compared to before.

Currently, PC gaming feels like Titanic.

The titanic was sinking. PC market is actually growing.

For consoles it's not so much better. If we had known what's coming, sticking at 12nm and postponing things like RT would have been the better option. I don't believe Sony when they say PS5 is fastest selling console ever.

Well, console players will just buy them whenever their available again. Every GPU, console etc being manufactured and shipped is instantly sold, everythings selling like crazy that way.

Well, i feel sorry for my recent depression but can't help it.

Its bad times now perhaps, but its not the end of the world yet.

Both PC and console gaming have existed since...... the beginning. Neither is going to evaporate anytime soon. If anything, i'd see consoles dissapearing before pc gaming does.

 

[JoeJ]

If opinions differ, truth is likely somewhere in the middle. Which i'm very fine with then!

 

[Leoneazzurro5]

Even dicing tapes are in tight supply, I heard especially from Hitachi.

 

[Rootax]

...

For consoles it's not so much better. If we had known what's coming, sticking at 12nm and postponing things like RT would have been the better option. I don't believe Sony when they say PS5 is fastest selling console ever.

...

At some point they can't lie (well...) to investors and will have to bring hard numbers, so I doubt they're really lying about sells...

 

[JoeJ]

Depends on how you count preorders, i guess.

But yeah... maybe i'm just used too much to 'optimizing worst case', ignoring the fine things.

 

[Kaotik]

This hasn't really affected Nv earlier because there were no GPUs fast enough to be that obviously CPU limited in latest D3D12 titles. It's not a big issue right now either but it may become one eventually, so definitely something for Nv to look into.

There was, just not on reviews because they use highend CPUs. Actual gamers use everything from lowend to highend.

 

[PSman1700]

There was, just not on reviews because they use highend CPUs. Actual gamers use everything from lowend to highend.

While true, usually at least with previous generations, you had to upgrade whenever a new generation started. Last time this wasnt really the case, but now i think 3700x should be the minimal going forward.
Its not all that strange, going from PSX to PS2 generation, to PS3 etc you had to upgrade everything.

 

[dskneo]

The reality is not always as we imagine it to be. Just look at Nvidia subreddit. The amount of people coming forward with testimonies they saw worse performance at times when "upgrading" from amd to nvidia. Practical cases. Evidence from youtube videos demonstrating it being ignored etc.

This is not just affecting a few people. Look at the steamcharts. I would say only reviewers and pcmasterrace are not affected by this.