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Deleted member 86764
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I'm still waiting for the PS5 / XSX WRC9 face-off. That game has a three modes, one is 120hz too.
Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]
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snc
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I think 60fps mode is really good, didn't notice any stutter (opossite to dirt5)
snc
Veteran
I don't like 120fps modes on ps5, too much resolution/graphic compromises
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Deleted member 86764
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Depends on the game for me. WRC9 I'll play at 4k, Cold War I can't go back to 60hz, it honestly feels much lower than I remember. I enjoy playing it online and think it probably gives a bit of a competitive advantage, since I haven't been so good at COD for years.
It'll probably be the first and last console 120hz COD
snc
Veteran
I didn't even bother with checking 120fps mode in cold war ;d (tough I played only singleplayer)Depends on the game for me. WRC9 I'll play at 4k, Cold War I can't go back to 60hz, it honestly feels much lower than I remember. I enjoy playing it online and think it probably gives a bit of a competitive advantage, since I haven't been so good at COD for years.
It'll probably be the first and last console 120hz COD
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Depends on the game for me. WRC9 I'll play at 4k, Cold War I can't go back to 60hz, it honestly feels much lower than I remember. I enjoy playing it online and think it probably gives a bit of a competitive advantage, since I haven't been so good at COD for years.
It'll probably be the first and last console 120hz COD
Considering COD is an eSports title, I wouldn't be surprised if all versions going forward had a 120 Hz mode, even if the graphics are greatly lowered in that mode.
Regards,
SB
The results about the Need for Speed remaster on next gen consoles should not be surprising as they align with the current list of games performing better on PS5 while having the same settings (more or less) whether using BC (like Skyrim) or native games (like COD, NBA, Destiny 2 or Control). Because of how different both hardware (and APIs) are some games will perform better on PS5, others will perform better on Xbox.
But the inconsistency of the One X performance compared to Pro tells me it could be another case of I/O streaming problem on Xbox consoles like seen in Control or Cyberpunk. By the way it was already the case in some old games like Fallout 4. That game has serious I/O problems on XB1, that were never fully resolved even after countless patches.
EDIT: maybe I am wrong about my last paragraph, see my next post.
But the inconsistency of the One X performance compared to Pro tells me it could be another case of I/O streaming problem on Xbox consoles like seen in Control or Cyberpunk. By the way it was already the case in some old games like Fallout 4. That game has serious I/O problems on XB1, that were never fully resolved even after countless patches.
EDIT: maybe I am wrong about my last paragraph, see my next post.
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There's something weird about how the lowest frame rate on XSX is only about ~30% higher than on X1X. Everything on XSX should be faster than that. Even if you just go by raw clockspeed and ignore width, IPC, whatever.
It's like there's some part of the game that decides when to skip a frame for performance reasons (maybe to avoid tearing), and it's tuned for minimum frame pacing irregularity and buffering (reduced latency and all that) ... but it's tuned for the gimpy X1S.
It's like there's some part of the game that decides when to skip a frame for performance reasons (maybe to avoid tearing), and it's tuned for minimum frame pacing irregularity and buffering (reduced latency and all that) ... but it's tuned for the gimpy X1S.
RagnarokFF
Newcomer
How do you explain the Series X dropping there, if I/O is the issue. Seems to be entirely a software problem with the game code or API.
Yes I was thinking about that and it's maybe not I/O related. Now I think it could be due to some polygon culling done more efficiently on Pro (and PS5 via BC). Pro GPU has actually advantages here against One X: it has the next-generation geometry (NGG) path taken from AMD Vega (while One X hasn't AFAIK as it's based on Polaris). The 2 lines: Peak NGG Vertex legacy and Peak NGG Prim legacy are Pro BC stuff tested on PS5 (so still available on PS5).
Also from the Cerny interview about Pro (done by DF, too bad they don't remember it):
I remember @iroboto talking about this as a possible reason for drops happening on XSX in Hitman 3 or AC Valhalla, it could be the same reason here.
If true then the cause of those drops on XSX in this game is a hardware limitation of Xbox One X (compared to Pro) that could obviously not be patched (using a similar feature available on XSX?) as they both run the untouched mid-gen console code.
another possible case, but I wouldn't put too much stock into what I claimed. I just wanted to showcase how there are a variety of possible scenarios out there that can cause frame drops and not all of it necessarily linked to fill rate issues.
though, where di dyou get that spreadsheet from?
That peak performance on legacy is nearly 2x
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It's from the github leak and was taken from this.
Pro GPU has the NGG fastpath from Vega tech (but never activated in those cards). PS5 geometry engine is an evolution of NGG (next generation geometry).
Maybe all those performance problems on XSX (compared to PS5) could be explained by Pro (and PS5) already using the primitive shaders (and primitive culling) in some games while it's not yet used on Xbox Series X (we know it couldn't be used on One X).
See page 6 of https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/docs/amd-vega-architecture.pdf
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ahh interesting. Thank you for sharing.
I do recall NGG on vega but not being leveraged. It didn't occur to me that 4Pro had this as well.
It's from the github leak and was taken from this.
Pro GPU has the NGG fastpath from Vega tech (but never activated in those cards). PS5 geometry engine is an evolution of NGG (next generation geometry).
Maybe all those performance problems on XSX (compared to PS5) could be explained by Pro (and PS5) already using the primitive shaders (and primitive culling) in some games while it's not yet used on Xbox Series X (we know it couldn't be used on One X).
See page 6 of https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/docs/amd-vega-architecture.pdf
[/spoiler]
It's a bit odd if that's the case considering the Series systems have Primitive Shaders alongside the Mesh Shaders, but we also know that Sony did some customizations with their Primitive Shaders and those might not be present in Microsoft's ones. Also IIRC, one of the reasons (actually the biggest reason) AMD shifted to Mesh Shaders is because that was the new spec set for DX12U support, since AMD couldn't get the Primitive Shaders functioning correctly on Vega.
So going by this it'd be logical to conclude 4 Pro games were already leveraging NGG and PS5 is basically allowing them to further that work with whatever customziations Sony and the AMD team they worked with added to it, whereas One X and cross-gen games on the Series platforms won't have access to that sort of equivalent until Mesh Shaders are utilized (but this will require a retooling of the dev pipeline and rebuilding parts of the engine to support it)?
it might be easier to ask some of the AMD engineers on here, as they would have a better feel on this. But I believe it's because NGG runs on the traditional pipeline, so provided it's enabled, it can take a long set standard geometry calls and convert them into more efficient primitive shader calls without necessarily developer intervention (though I can't say how it works for 4Pro.) and I also don't know how this works on console (as the concept of shader compilation doesn't exist on consoles, games are shipped with pre-compiled shaders).
Whereas Mesh shaders require explicit programming for.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
They share some broad common features, but they also have different features. How the features differ is difficult to determine as Sony aren't as open about their hardware as MS is.
Regards,
SB
[Edit - comment I was referring to has thankfully been moved, this is not about the previous posts currently showing! 
]
Can we please leave the meta commentary about what the internets say in console wars out of technical threads?
We really don't need it - just gunks things up and drives the right kind of people away.
] Can we please leave the meta commentary about what the internets say in console wars out of technical threads?
We really don't need it - just gunks things up and drives the right kind of people away.
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Have we had an update on whether NGG is even exposed yet on XSX? Would probably take months after that before we saw it in a game (or longer?).
Mesh shaders look great and all, but they ideally need changes right back to the content creation point. Hard to see it being a priority for most developers while it's so new on PC and not supported on last gen platforms.
Mesh shaders look great and all, but they ideally need changes right back to the content creation point. Hard to see it being a priority for most developers while it's so new on PC and not supported on last gen platforms.
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