Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]

[HLJ]

I look forward to seeing how much the consoles trails the PC when DirectStorage is proper implemented om the PC, so the talk about "secret sauce" for mid-range settings on toyboxes will seem antiquated

 

[JLinneman]

I look forward to seeing how much the consoles trails the PC when DirectStorage is proper implemented om the PC, so the talk about "secret sauce" for mid-range settings on toyboxes will seem antiquated

This is an interesting thing to consider. The new consoles have brought loading times down so far that, even if it becomes possible to improve performance significantly on PC in terms of loading, it will only save a handful of seconds at most, I'd imagine. The key here is that loading times are coming way down for all platforms and that's excellent news as they've otherwise been increasing with each new generation.

 

[mr magoo]

This is an interesting thing to consider. The new consoles have brought loading times down so far that, even if it becomes possible to improve performance significantly on PC in terms of loading, it will only save a handful of seconds at most, I'd imagine. The key here is that loading times are coming way down for all platforms and that's excellent news as they've otherwise been increasing with each new generation.

for me personally this is the biggest upgrade with next gens. I was happy with how game looked and ran on my ps4 but loading times were often horrible. Witcher3 took minutes to load, fast travel also very long when i died it took minutes to load again .... such a painful experience

 

[Deleted member 86764]

This is an interesting thing to consider. The new consoles have brought loading times down so far that, even if it becomes possible to improve performance significantly on PC in terms of loading, it will only save a handful of seconds at most, I'd imagine. The key here is that loading times are coming way down for all platforms and that's excellent news as they've otherwise been increasing with each new generation.

The same is true for the PC GPUs. A 6800xt has an approximate 2x performance of the consoles, but really, it's not a huge difference. Anything running at 4k native on the PC would run roughly the same settings at 1440p.

All platforms should be congratulated, since a new console release creates a new graphical baseline for PC.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Word of advice:

Most folks on Beyond 3D are interested in technology and are generally platform agnostic, regardless of their individual purchases. Irrational posturing from people over their favoured machine usually goes down like a led balloon and is pretty tiresome to read. I'd recommend toning it down a bit.

 

[HLJ]

Word of advice:

Most folks on Beyond 3D are interested in technology and are generally platform agnostic, regardless of their individual purchases. Irrational posturing from people over their favoured machine usually goes down like a led balloon and is pretty tiresome to read. I'd recommend toning it down a bit.

Did you miss the debacle between Sony and MS people over "~16% difference" in performance in Control?
Or does this "rule" only apply to PC vs consoles?

 

[HLJ]

This is an interesting thing to consider. The new consoles have brought loading times down so far that, even if it becomes possible to improve performance significantly on PC in terms of loading, it will only save a handful of seconds at most, I'd imagine. The key here is that loading times are coming way down for all platforms and that's excellent news as they've otherwise been increasing with each new generation.

I think the jump from HDD's to SDD's has been one of the biggest factors.

I got a...was it called X18-M? (80 GB Intel SSD in 2008), which replaced 2 x 80GB HDD's in RAID 0...and that lead me to BAN HDD's in my PC...I have been "solid state" ever since.

12 years ago I made the jump....about effing time the console took the plunge IMHO.

 

[snc]

Did you miss the debacle between Sony and MS people over "~16% difference" in performance in Control?
Or does this "rule" only apply to PC vs consoles?

you miss difference between debate and platform warrior style of wording sentences

 

[Nesh]

But tools do help. And the tools did help the One reduce the gap we were seeing at launch. They just werent enough to cover the gap. Of course MS did throw it's marketing useless claims in like always. But regardless.
So in the case of Series X I do believe tools will help things a lot. We dont know by how much and how much is MS hyberbole.
So far we see a lot of cases where MS even outperforms Sony in loading times, especially in BC (or is it forward? Have no idea with this mix up of titles being released simultaneously or receiving updates), so they are apparently doing something very very right.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well this thread went nuts quickly.

 

[BRiT]

As everyone should know, this site and especially this forum is for technical debate. This is not the place for console wars. Cleanup of disruptive presences, who only have interests in console-wars and have shown no interest in technical discussions, have been completed.

Sorry for the disruptions.

 

[Shortbread]

I was going to ask, "what happened"... but I'm guessing PC and console warriors were at each other throats.

Sometimes just backing down or simply not engaging goes a long way. Nothing on the internet is worth getting heated over.

 

[mr magoo]

Thanks to DF work Ubisoft devs have acknowledged technical issues on ps5 and are working on the fix

https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthre...S5-problem?p=15338284&viewfull=1#post15338284

"Sorry to hear you have been having issues with the new update on PS5.

The team is aware of the issues and are looking into them further. When we have more information to share regarding a fix, we will communicate it"

MOD EDIT: This is for The Division 2, if you couldn't see the link text.

 

[see colon]

I think the jump from HDD's to SDD's has been one of the biggest factors.

Back when we were speculating about PS5 and Xbox Series consoles I was firmly in the camp that thought SSDs weren't going to be in them. Maybe hybrid drives, or solid state as a cache, but not fully solid state. I'm really glad I was wrong.

 

[BRiT]

Back when we were speculating about PS5 and Xbox Series consoles I was firmly in the camp that thought SSDs weren't going to be in them. Maybe hybrid drives, or solid state as a cache, but not fully solid state. I'm really glad I was wrong.

You, Me, and everyone else who based their estimates off costs is so glad to be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Back when we were speculating about PS5 and Xbox Series consoles I was firmly in the camp that thought SSDs weren't going to be in them.

I think the mistake we made - and I was right there with you on SSD - was forgetting that Microsoft and Sony are paying maybe 8-12% for what SSD goes in the consumer space. When you narrow the profit margin of the cell fabricator, chip packager and remove the margins of the manufacturer, distributor and retailer, you're looking at much more modest costs.

edit: and a shout out at @tunafish for predicting it exactly.

This seems to be a popular prediction. I think the opposite is true. If the NAND Flash price reduction curve stays on track, by late 2020 the cheapest way to provide a storage device with "faster than anything for PC" speeds is just a simple PCIe 4.0 NVMe controller attached to at least a terabyte of cheapest available flash.

 

[BRiT]

edit: and a shout out at @tunafish for predicting it exactly.

To be pedantic, not exactly, since only 1 out of the 4 different console SKUs provide 1 TB of flash.

by late 2020 the cheapest way to provide a storage device with "faster than anything for PC" speeds is just a simple PCIe 4.0 NVMe controller attached to at least a terabyte of cheapest available flash.

 

[pjbliverpool]

The same is true for the PC GPUs. A 6800xt has an approximate 2x performance of the consoles, but really, it's not a huge difference. Anything running at 4k native on the PC would run roughly the same settings at 1440p.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think the argument was that the console IO systems have brought load times down so much that they are essentially good enough forever now (this doesn't apply to streaming of course). So for load times, even a PC 4x faster is arguably not really any better because the difference between a 2 second load and a 0.5 second load is nothing.

The GPU argument is entirely different though. While some may argue that the difference between 1440p and 4k is meaningless, few would argue the same about 30fps and 60fps. Which is what that 2x performance can give you. Or 2x the performance can bring a lot in terms of core graphics if you equalise resolution and framerate which seems to be the direction many devs are taking with PC right now. That's before we consider VR where we're every ounce of additional power counts for a lot. And of course that's only the GPU generation that's contemporary with these consoles, what about the one after that, or after that. Those benefits will keep growing over time unlike faster IO systems which even with multiple times the speed would be giving extremely marginal benefits.

 

[Allandor]

briliant patch on ps5 ;d

Interesting. Essentially, it has the same "bug" as Control on xbox. Short before text or HUD elements appear on screen, the framerate drops for a short time. Maybe there is something wrong in the Xbox API when merging different layers.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

To be pedantic, not exactly, since only 1 out of the 4 different console SKUs provide 1 TB of flash.

True and only Xbox Series include a "simple" (i.e. standard) NVMe controller but both consoles are obviously levering the PCIe 4.0 bus. @tunafish nailed the Xbox Series prediction but nobody could have predicted Sony would go with a smaller pool of faster flash and roll their own controller because that would be crazy.