An american car manufacturer bites the bullet

DemoCoder

Veteran
As I said in a discussion about hybrid cars a about month ago, one of the chief barriers to US production of hybrids is patent rights, not evil corporations/CEOs refusing to make such cars because of complacency, greed, lack of technology, oil conspiracies, or other issues.

Looks like Ford has finally caved in and signed some agreement to pay Toyota in order so that Ford can build hybrids.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&u=/ap/20040310/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_ford_3

Hybrids from Ford, including SUVs will eventually be underway. Yay!
 
Yea I read this a few days ago. However, you'll remember that one of the things I came back with on this matter is that the greed and complacency of the US companies during the SUV boom in the 90s is what let the japanese car companies get a leg up on them. They did themselves in in this regard, plain and simple.

It's a good thing companies like GM are leaping ahead and researching Hydrogen tech so they can leapfrog the japanese in this regard. It shows they learned the lessons from the 90s. Of course one wonders whether or not they'll be able to stay afloat for the 20-40 years it'll take for the US to move to a Hydrogen economy. Whether they like it or not, Hybrid technology is the necessary middle step, and they're going to have to pony up or else risk bankruptcy, hence, Ford's move in this regard.

I know my first car is going to be a hybrid. And I see myself going with Honda or Toyota in this regard. Stylish offerings with 40-60mpg efficiency in city driving is very attractive to me.
 
Honda and Toyota both have hybrid prototype supercars. Toyota recently showed the Volta at the Geneva Motor Show, 0-60 mph in 4 secs with the quietness of a DC motor. :devilish:

http://autoweek.com/specials/2004_geneva/editors/index.mv

1.jpg

IMG_0371.jpg

IMG_0372.jpg

IMG_0374.jpg

IMG_0378.jpg
 
PC-Engine said:
Honda and Toyota both have hybrid prototype supercars. Toyota recently showed the Volta at the Geneva Motor Show, 0-60 mph in 4 secs with the quietness of a DC motor. :devilish:
If you can go from 0 to 60 in 4 seconds, you don't want your car to be quiet. They better include a subwoofer to produce the appropriate rumble! ;)
 
RussSchultz said:
PC-Engine said:
Honda and Toyota both have hybrid prototype supercars. Toyota recently showed the Volta at the Geneva Motor Show, 0-60 mph in 4 secs with the quietness of a DC motor. :devilish:
If you can go from 0 to 60 in 4 seconds, you don't want your car to be quiet. They better include a subwoofer to produce the appropriate rumble! ;)

Well, actually, someone just pointed out the potential hazzard to pedestrians - you know a car is approaching you fast because of the noise...
 
DaveBaumann said:
RussSchultz said:
PC-Engine said:
Honda and Toyota both have hybrid prototype supercars. Toyota recently showed the Volta at the Geneva Motor Show, 0-60 mph in 4 secs with the quietness of a DC motor. :devilish:
If you can go from 0 to 60 in 4 seconds, you don't want your car to be quiet. They better include a subwoofer to produce the appropriate rumble! ;)

Well, actually, someone just pointed out the potential hazzard to pedestrians - you know a car is approaching you fast because of the noise...

It will be like Flash... U won't know what hit u until u're in heaven...
 
DaveBaumann said:
Well, actually, someone just pointed out the potential hazzard to pedestrians - you know a car is approaching you fast because of the noise...

Hmmm. So having invented a technology where we could potentially finally get rid of noisy roads and all that, we're going to have to make our future vehicles artificially noisy so people know where they are! Oh, the irony! :p
 
I wonder if toyotas designs are what Ford used in the Escape hybrid Im looking at... Might buy it in 2005 if all goes to plan. At 21g us and with the perf of the v6 version its a bargain...
 
nutball said:
DaveBaumann said:
Well, actually, someone just pointed out the potential hazzard to pedestrians - you know a car is approaching you fast because of the noise...

Hmmm. So having invented a technology where we could potentially finally get rid of noisy roads and all that, we're going to have to make our future vehicles artificially noisy so people know where they are! Oh, the irony! :p

It'd be a bit like a return to (IIRC) "The Red Flag Act" where (in the UK) when those new-fangled horseless carriages were introduced, someone had to walk in front carrying a red flag to warn the pedestrians etc. :)
 
Well I had a Toyota Prius as a courtesy car a while back. It’s the weirdest thing pulling off my drive and down the road making essentially no noise at all. I got some very strange looks from my neighbour and other pedestrians.

And about the safely issue, it is a problem. I almost run over at least two people who just stepped out into the road without looking, as they could not hear me coming.

Still getting an average of ~80mpg on my way to work was a bonus...
 
nutball said:
Hmmm. So having invented a technology where we could potentially finally get rid of noisy roads and all that, we're going to have to make our future vehicles artificially noisy so people know where they are! Oh, the irony! :p
Next thing you know, we'll be required to go out and buy one of those mega subwoofer car sound systems and listen to hip-hop.

All in the interest of public safety, of course! :D
 
Simon F said:
It'd be a bit like a return to (IIRC) "The Red Flag Act" where (in the UK) when those new-fangled horseless carriages were introduced, someone had to walk in front carrying a red flag to warn the pedestrians etc. :)

That wouldn't be a big problem in London, where traffic rarely exceeds walking pace anyway :D
 
VtC said:
nutball said:
Hmmm. So having invented a technology where we could potentially finally get rid of noisy roads and all that, we're going to have to make our future vehicles artificially noisy so people know where they are! Oh, the irony! :p
Next thing you know, we'll be required to go out and buy one of those mega subwoofer car sound systems and listen to hip-hop.

All in the interest of public safety, of course! :D

I'd rather get run over.
 
DaveBaumann said:
Well, actually, someone just pointed out the potential hazzard to pedestrians - you know a car is approaching you fast because of the noise...

These days, most pedestrians are listening to portable CD players or MP3 players anyway...
 
nutball said:
DaveBaumann said:
Well, actually, someone just pointed out the potential hazzard to pedestrians - you know a car is approaching you fast because of the noise...

Hmmm. So having invented a technology where we could potentially finally get rid of noisy roads and all that, we're going to have to make our future vehicles artificially noisy so people know where they are! Oh, the irony! :p
Well if you think that is dumb. A few years ago I read an article that said car manufactures had perfected the silent car (for occupants). The problem was that people couldnt hear sirens, trains, et al. So they had to make the car leaky (able to allow sound in.) .

later,
epic
 
McElvis said:
Well I had a Toyota Prius as a courtesy car a while back. It’s the weirdest thing pulling off my drive and down the road making essentially no noise at all. I got some very strange looks from my neighbour and other pedestrians.

And about the safely issue, it is a problem. I almost run over at least two people who just stepped out into the road without looking, as they could not hear me coming.

Still getting an average of ~80mpg on my way to work was a bonus...
Where I live people don't pay attention to cars because they just don't pay attention. Noise doesn't matter. I have a fairly loud car and in a parking lot I'll pull up right behind people waiting to continue and they won't have a clue I'm there for quite some time.
 
As someone who has to cross a busy intersection several times a day, I can tell you that Dave is 100% correct. Car noise is a crucial indicator for keeping track of cars, since I can only look in one direction at one time. A noiseless car would be very dangerous...for me.

In fact sometimes I know just by the sound of the car that it is slowing down and don't even have to look to cross. Though that might not be a good idea.
 
Hopefully the Hydrogen economy is closer than we think.
Ethanol Yields Hydrogen

Technology Research News March 8, 2004

Fuel cells that convert the chemical bonds between hydrogen atoms to energy are about three times more efficient than combustion engines that burn hydrocarbons. And fuel cells powered with pure hydrogen carry out the conversion cleanly.

The trick is finding a cost-effective way to produce hydrogen without polluting the environment.

Researchers from the University of Minnesota and the University of Patras in Greece have devised a way to extract hydrogen directly from ethanol, which would make for a renewable energy cycle. Ethanol is produced by converting biomass like cornstarch to sugar, then fermenting it.

The researchers' method is relatively simple, and an ethanol-to-hydrogen converter designed for home use would be not much larger than a coffee mug.

Ethanol is fairly flammable, and the process of extracting hydrogen from ethanol destroys the catalyst traditionally used to extract hydrogen from hydrocarbons like oil.

The researchers solved the flammability problem by using an automotive fuel injector to vaporize a mix of ethanol, water and air so quickly that there's no time for flames to start. They solved the catalyst problem accidentally, by trying rhodium-ceria rather than the plain rhodium used to extract hydrogen from fuels like natural gas and diesel.

The method is ready for use now, according to the researchers. The cost of ethanol is currently about fifty percent more than gasoline. Eventually wood chips, grass clippings or crop wastes could be used to make lower-cost ethanol.

The work appeared in the February 13, 2004 issue of Science.
From here
 
In Fact, that Toyota's SuperCar runs on gas when pushed to the limits. There's no way having batteries able feed up two electric engines consuming around 300kW (total). The point is that power from 3.2 liter V6 is transformed to wheels electronically, so there's no mechanical connection between petrol engine and wheels.


and I don't think that petrol engine being quiet really... it has very short exhaust (pipes visible behind the doors on sides) which makes exhaust sounds even higher than in regular car. but when driven with electricity only, it certainly is quiet.


Interesting point is that brand new production SUV, Lexus RX-400 is already using identical technical approach as Volta. Difference to Prius is the missing mechanical connection between the petrol engine and the wheels, which again should drop mileage even more.

about Hydrogen, as a single solution IMO it is too far away. But as another power source to Hybrid, it is soon becoming viable. for example, Toyota has already 3 home market models (2 of them are Busses though.) that are Hybrids implemtating Hydrogen technology. All major car makers have their Hydrogen prototypes, others use them in marketing more, others less. GM has used their Hydrogen based prototypes in marketing quite lot and that's why they are so famous developing it.

Also, there's have been interesting prototyping with 2-stroke engine that would ignite on every cycle. Last time I heard about the project it was known problem that control logic couldn't be fast enough to handle timings. (means logic that could be fitted on massproduction car. you know, you just can't slap few opterons on it. ;) )
2-stroke that would ignite on every cycle would raise the efficiency greatly and also burning would be more complete which again means less non-burned exhausts.
 
Back
Top