Value of Consoles vs PC *spin off*

[BillSpencer]

I am guessing the 399 dollar PS5 is outperforming a 1200+ dollar PC here?
Would it be relevant for historical purposes if we get to know the price of the PC which was used?

 

[steveOrino]

I am guessing the 399 dollar PS5 is outperforming a 1200+ dollar PC here?
Would it be relevant for historical purposes if we get to know the price of the PC which was used?

I think Alex has a 3950 CPU + the various graphics cards for testing... but the 16 cores is a bit overkill for games and the 3700 would be a better comparison if going for price equivalency. Either way, I feel this generation is back to offering great value in terms of hardware cost in comparison to the PC and (at least atm) you still cannot get the PS5s impressive storage I/O on the PC no matter how much you spend.

I think last gen would have been impressive too if the Jaguar CPUs weren't absolute dog shit.

 

[BillSpencer]

I'm not sure that it would be relevant. Said PC was available 2 years before these consoles launched so what value would you place on having next gen console level performance 2 years before those next gen consoles are launched? Using more modern components it should be possible to get a console equivalent experience for around $1000 at the moment.

To be honest though I do find these "but that PC cost 3x as much as the console" arguments quite tiresome because they ignore so many other factors, not the least of which is that no-one buying a whole new PC at the start of a new console generation is doing so because they offer a good value proposition. It's a bit like telling the guy who just bought a BMW M8 that he made the wrong choice because it doesn't go 5x faster than a Ford Focus.

I have a medical condition which prohibits me from using MS Windows, so no PC for me, but lets just say I would feel real F* stupid if I bought a 1200 dollar console 2 years ago for it be be outperformed by a 399 PC now

 

[steveOrino]

I have a medical condition which prohibits me from using MS Windows, so no PC for me, but lets just say I would feel real F* stupid if I bought a 1200 dollar console 2 years ago for it be be outperformed by a 399 PC now

The majority of the cost in a "gaming" PC is the graphics cards because they can range from 399-1000+. However, the ability to change GPUs every product cycle still nets the flexibility where you would like your performance to be based on budget. The CPUs are are still much better than what you get in the current consoles especially with the neutered clocks. However, if you are coming from a pre-build frame of reference then yeah, you usually get poor performance per dollar spent since most vendors will prey on ignorance of the consumer.

True but I think you can buy the hardware which will allow it. You'll just be constrained by software until Direct Storage comes along.

I wouldn't bet on that much like I wouldn't bet a current PCIe Gen4 NVME SDD being validated for the PS5 next year. Still plenty of unknowns with direct storage + hardware and I'll leave it to the independent reviewers before I spend money.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I have a medical condition which prohibits me from using MS Windows, so no PC for me, but lets just say I would feel real F* stupid if I bought a 1200 dollar console 2 years ago for it be be outperformed by a 399 PC now

As I said, arguments like this are tiresome because they ignore a number of important factors like a PC having many more uses than a console. Or a PC being upgradable and therefore having a cheaper cost of ownership over the long term than the initial outlay would suggest. Or the lack of a requirement to pay a subscription for online play etc... For example while the PS4 launched 7 years ago at $400, you would have paid another $420 over that same period in online subscription fees which wouldn't have been applicable with a PC. I'm not suggesting that alone equalizes the value proposition, but it's also not right to ignore it.

It's also wrong to suggest that the 2070S powered PC is being outperformed by the PS5. We have 2 solid data points so far. In Valhalla the PS5 wins and in Watch Dogs the 2070S wins. Use of Ray Tracing over this console generation is likely to play a large determining role as to whether that GPU will end up being faster or slower than the PS5 over the next couple of years.

 

[BillSpencer]

The majority of the cost in a "gaming" PC is the graphics cards because they can range from 399-1000+. However, the ability to change GPUs every product cycle still nets the flexibility where you would like your performance to be based on budget. The CPUs are are still much better than what you get in the current consoles especially with the neutered clocks. However, if you are coming from a pre-build frame of reference then yeah, you usually get poor performance per dollar spent since most vendors will prey on ignorance of the consumer.



I wouldn't bet on that much like I wouldn't bet a current PCIe Gen4 NVME SDD being validated for the PS5 next year. Still plenty of unknowns with direct storage + hardware and I'll leave it to the independent reviewers before I spend money.

If we look at the past and the current gen;

in 2013: for 399 you could not have built a better PC compared to PS4
in 2016 for 399 you could not have built a better PC compared to PS4 Pro
in 2020 for 399 you cannot build a better PC compared to PS5

At any moment you will spend at least double or triple the price compared to the console.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The CPUs are are still much better than what you get in the current consoles especially with the neutered clocks.

I have an i9 and 3080 but PCMR need to stop pretending that all PC configurations and components are better than in consoles because it's bollocks.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I wouldn't bet on that much like I wouldn't bet a current PCIe Gen4 NVME SDD being validated for the PS5 next year. Still plenty of unknowns with direct storage + hardware and I'll leave it to the independent reviewers before I spend money.

That would certainly be wise. But I think the odds of a high speed PCI4 NVMe drive purchased today not being compatible with Direct Storage are extremely low. And since we know the precise performance characteristics of the PS5 drive, and that those can already be handily beaten by currently available high end SSD's, I think you'd be on fairly safe ground if you wanted to purchase now with the promise higher performance later. Personally though I'd wait because the price of drives is likely to come down a lot between now and when Direct Storage starts being used in games on the PC.

 

[BillSpencer]

It's also wrong to suggest that the 2070S powered PC is being outperformed by the PS5. We have 2 solid data points so far. In Valhalla the PS5 wins and in Watch Dogs the 2070S wins. Use of Ray Tracing over this console generation is likely to play a large determining role as to whether that GPU will end up being faster or slower than the PS5 over the next couple of years.

My 1200 dollar 2020 PC example is using a 5700XT... I never said PS5 is better than 2070 super but to honest it would not surprise me in the least

5700XT: 400 dollar
motherboard: 100 dollar
equivalent CPU: 200 dollar
memory: 100 dollar
PSU and case: 150 dollar
800GB SSD: 100 dollar

Windows Piracy edition: 0 dollar
PS5 equivalent controller: 0 dollar (does not exist)

I lowballed the numbers btw, like the SSD

You would end up with a big cheap case which is not as silent as the PS5, paying over triple the amount to play games at lower resolutions and frame rates and missing out on high profile titles. But you have free online which is a plus and you can use it for windows if that is your thing

 

[BRiT]

If we look at the past and the current gen;

in 2013: for 399 you could not have built a better PC compared to PS4
in 2016 for 399 you could not have built a better PC compared to PS4 Pro
in 2020 for 399 you cannot build a better PC compared to PS5

At any moment you will spend at least double or triple the price compared to the console.

And easily get double or triple the value out of the PC.

Don't need to pay for Online Services for multiplayer.
Don't need to pay $70-$100 or higher for new games.
Can get in on Steam Deals, Humble Bundle deals, Epic Game Store deals, GOG deals.
Can get better VR headsets.
Can do other tasks.

 

[pjbliverpool]

If we look at the past and the current gen;

in 2013: for 399 you could not have built a better PC compared to PS4
in 2016 for 399 you could not have built a better PC compared to PS4 Pro
in 2020 for 399 you cannot build a better PC compared to PS5

At any moment you will spend at least double or triple the price compared to the console.

Lets look at that another way. In 2014 you could have bought a PC for around $1000 that would have outperformed the PS4 for the rest of the generation (powered by an GTX 970). If you also bought the PS4 in 2014 then you spent a total of about $760 between the hardware and the online subscriptions which aren't applicable on the PC. It's likely you could have saved a good chunk more on the generally lower price of PC games as well. So for a largely comparable cost you got a more flexible and more powerful system over those 6 years.

 

[BillSpencer]

Lets look at that another way. In 2014 you could have bought a PC for around $1000 that would have outperformed the PS4 for the rest of the generation (powered by an GTX 970). If you also bought the PS4 in 2014 then you spent a total of about $760 between the hardware and the online subscriptions which aren't applicable on the PC. It's likely you could have saved a good chunk more on the generally lower price of PC games as well. So for a largely comparable cost you got a more flexible and more powerful system over those 6 years.

PS4 is even more expensive:
You would need to buy The Last of Us 2, God of War, Ghosts of Tsushima, Uncharted, Last Guardian, SoTC, and many, many more titles that don't even exist on PC but which are essential and will cost you 70 dollar at launch. So the PS4 would have cost you at least a 1000 dollars more over the generation.

Having said that, I was only looking at the hardware cost. With the online subscription you would have gotten almost 200 titles as part of PS+ but I guess those don't count

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Lets look at that another way. In 2014 you could have bought a PC for around $1000 that would have outperformed the PS4 for the rest of the generation (powered by an GTX 970). If you also bought the PS4 in 2014 then you spent a total of about $760 between the hardware and the online subscriptions which aren't applicable on the PC.

What about those who don't care about online and don't subscriber to PS+ ?

How many games do you have to buy a full launch price before you spend more than an equivalent PC, and how does that compare to console attach rates? Game sales exists on consoles and discs can be had super cheap in many retail outlets if you forgo the launch window.

 

[JPT]

Please add cost of my time, that I would have to use to maintain that pc at my hourly rate. That and the exclusives are the biggest reasons I stick with consoles.
All that and I still get burned by friends that needs help with their pc's.

 

[Svensk Viking]

I'm mostly a PC fanboy nowadays, I abhor the online paywalls on consoles, but it's easy to lose perspective once you've finished your studies and have a full time job.
Thinking back to when one was in Secondary School and high school, or even early University, and never could count on a guaranteed part time job, the cost of a console up front was easier to swallow than the higher entry fee of PC gaming. And with a console, you do have somewhat of a guarantee that it'll run all upcoming games (although to be fair, might have bad performance), whereas an older PC might get left behind. Eg Crysis 3 and Alien Isolation requiring actual fl 11.0 GPUs but got an acceptable version on Xbox 360 from 2005. Or even the 780 Ti and GTX Titan being horrible in Doom Eternal.

I don't find the different sales on PC to be much better than on consoles either, you can find good deals for both if looking around.

I do think it's a pity that Digitalfoundry stopped testing their Haswell i3 and 750 Ti around 2016. But I never did like how so many blindly recommended that as the go-to PC for a PS4 killer, because I know that many of my mates who did buy a PS4 instead wouldn't have the money to upgrade that PC later on whereas their PS4 probably would be decent enough.

20 years ago, I did play mostly on PC too, but they were undemanding games like Starcraft and generally older games. High-end PC gaming was mostly a non-option until around 2009 for me. My current PC is very low end by today's standards, an i7 4770k and a Kepler Titan. But it gets the job done and I figure next year's releases might be when I actually upgrade it unless something breaks, I still don't expect any super big leap in requirements until games drop the support for current gen.

 

[chris1515]

And easily get double or triple the value out of the PC.

Don't need to pay for Online Services for multiplayer.
Don't need to pay $70-$100 or higher for new games.
Can get in on Steam Deals, Humble Bundle deals, Epic Game Store deals, GOG deals.
Can get better VR headsets.
Can do other tasks.

The game are expensive day one but there is often discount on games on PSN or Xbox Live. All depends what you are doing with your PC. I have a non gaming PC, this is enough for other task.

Agree for the online multiplayer for people playing mp games and VR headset.

But I think the main value from console is the fact to have all the first party games available, not the case at all on PC for Nintendo Switch and a rare case for the moment on Sony side and some people like me don't play mp games too.

 

[pjbliverpool]

PS4 is even more expensive:
You would need to buy The Last of Us 2, God of War, Ghosts of Tsushima, Uncharted, Last Guardian, SoTC, and many, many more titles that don't even exist on PC but which are essential and will cost you 70 dollar at launch. So the PS4 would have cost you at least a 1000 dollars more over the generation.

This is a bit of a silly argument. From the perspective of a PS4 gamer the PC has lots of exclusives too. Gears, Halo, Forza, Ori, FS2020 etc.... Sure you could buy both a PlayStation and Xbox to cover all your bases but then you're doubling the cost of ownership and the economic argument goes out of the window.

Having said that, I was only looking at the hardware cost. With the online subscription you would have gotten almost 200 titles as part of PS+ but I guess those don't count

There are lots of free game giveaways of older titles on the likes of Steam and GoG all the time too. I'm sure they would number in the hundreds over the course of a generation. Although the reality is that most don't rely on those but rather pay to play the new releases during the timeframe that they're not free. How many of the above list of seemingly must have exclusives are available on PSNow and how long did they take to be released on there?

What about those who don't care about online and don't subscriber to PS+ ?

Then you get a lesser service at a lesser cost. Seems reasonable to me.

How many games do you have to buy a full launch price before you spend more than an equivalent PC, and how does that compare to console attach rates? Game sales exists on consoles and discs can be had super cheap in many retail outlets if you forgo the launch window.

Generally speaking the games are cheaper on PC whether it's launch window or later on in the generation assuming they launched at the same time. However I wasn't trying to suggest that this completely closes the gap - how could it since it's going to be different for every person? For some people it will close the gap and for others it won't come close. It should nevertheless be considered as a relevant factor.

Please add cost of my time, that I would have to use to maintain that pc at my hourly rate. That and the exclusives are the biggest reasons I stick with consoles.

Different people value different experiences. For me it's the very fact that I can customise, tweak, and ultimately perfect my PC gaming experience that appeals to me. The time spent on that is a hobby that I enjoy. Naturally if that's something you see as a chore then consoles are probably a better fit.

All that and I still get burned by friends that needs help with their pc's.

Charge them

 

[BillSpencer]

Windows/PC maintenance is only free if your time is worthless.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Windows/PC maintenance is only free if your time is worthless.

How much value to you place on your time spent arguing on a computer games forum?

*different people enjoy different things.

That said, I'm curious about what time you actually think needs to be spent on "PC maintenance"? Indulge me with a typical monthly schedule of PC maintenance tasks and average amount of time you expect needs to be spent on them. I'm assuming you don't own a laptop btw and hence wouldn't be performing those maintenance tasks regardless of whether you also use the PC for gaming? Presumably you're typing all this on a phone?

 

[steveOrino]

PCMR need to stop pretending that all PC configurations and components are better than in consoles because it's bollocks.

Wasn't meant to be PCmustard and I'm not sure how stating that lower clocked TDP limited Ryzen 2 cores are slower than the desktop counterpart is bollocks, but ok.

f we look at the past and the current gen;

in 2013: for 399 you could not have built a better PC compared to PS4
in 2016 for 399 you could not have built a better PC compared to PS4 Pro
in 2020 for 399 you cannot build a better PC compared to PS5

At any moment you will spend at least double or triple the price compared to the console.

Fine. Since this will just continue in a cyclic argument that is a total waste of time, I will say this. If consoles are good value for you then awesome because I think they are good value as well. For me personally their value is limited as a singular primary platform since I limit myself to a smaller selection of software as well as additional features for that software. I tend to value the software over championing platforms but I know that is the domain of these types of internet communities whom are very tribal over this shit.