Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[Deleted member 11852]

What i want to see is heavy RT/compute based games on PS5 compared to XSX with its wider and slower GPU. CoD RT seems to perform as well on both? Going wide has more CUs, but narrow and fast can fill them faster. No idea there, but i doubt differences will be huge anyway. UE5 demo did fine on the narrow/fast setup.

For both consoles it is about keeping those CUs busy. If you can't keep them stuffed then code will very likely turn in better performance on PS5 because it is running faster. Depending on the engine, you may get more a stable frame rate because every 33ms (30fps), 16ms (60fps) or 8ms (120fps) you can get more done in that time - again, as long as jobs aren't backing up waiting for their moment in the GPU limelight then more available CUs will help.

I imagine there will be games that will benefit one machine but devs are good at this stuff. In time they even coaxed impressive performance out of PlayStation 3. There are tasks which don't parallelise particularly well and Mark Cerny noted dealing with lots of small triangles and at these higher resolutions we're probably seeing games with a lot of small triangles. Maybe more tessellation is the answer.

 

[goonergaz]

It's getting real in the UK - Sony are sending me my USB adapter to go along side my controller charger! lol

Ye, well, what the XSX has/had going for it would have been supriority in multiplat games, like, you would be getting the best versions of games on the XSX to an extend the end-user would be able to notice it.
It turns out to be, so far atleast, that they are basically equal in multiplatform games, with the PS5 even doing better in those where it matters the most.

So yes, the PS5 seems a winner design, agian if nothing drastically changes, which i doubt will happen. For multiplat games, you get the exact same experience as the XSX will give you, perhaps they are trade blowing here and there. You also get all the sony exclusives, the controller features and faster SSD/streaming/loading, and the tempest audio thingy.
Also its running cooler (and more silent? i dont have an XSX). Wifi6 etc are future proofing things which i think any 2020 device should have but ok.

The only gripe could be, indeed, its massive size. For me personally i'd happily trade that for a cooler and quiter running system, and as a pc gamer, im used to big heavy towers so the PS5 isnt anything strange where it stands now. And IMO, vertically, it takes up most of the space, well, vertically, in the air. Abit like skyscrapers to not take up so much ground area. Most gaming pc's are in that idea to be vertically placed.

What i want to see is heavy RT/compute based games on PS5 compared to XSX with its wider and slower GPU. CoD RT seems to perform as well on both? Going wide has more CUs, but narrow and fast can fill them faster. No idea there, but i doubt differences will be huge anyway. UE5 demo did fine on the narrow/fast setup.

Ideally, you'd want both, very wide and very very fast. Thats AMD's desktop stuff scaring the crap out of NV.

Edit: Oh and, Sony should fix the 1440p, VRR (maybe atmos?) etc by software update, minor for me, but i think those should be there.
Also, i assume the PS5 has some form of the missing VRS (or whatever RDNA2 features), cause those things seem nice fits for just consoles. I couldnt care shit about quick resume, but some seem to demand it.

Wow, changed your tune since those github days lol

I'm sure XSX 3rd party games will eventually start to show their advantages, by then though the PS5 will have done its job and be the console of choice and all that power advantage talk would be for nothing.

I expect Sony to shrink the PS5 rather than release a Pro - I'd like a Pro, but I don't think we can have another console this size - it's just too big.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It's getting real in the UK - Sony are sending me my USB adapter to go along side my controller charger! lol

Same. I have my second (ok.. technically my first) DualSense controller, my charging station my media remote, my external SSD with all my PS4 games and PS5 games Sackboy: Big Adventure, Spider-Man Miles Morales and AC Valhalla arrived on disc today. It would be unfortunate if the console was in any way delayed or faulty!

 

[London Geezer]

Same. I have my second (ok.. technically my first) DualSense controller, my charging station my media remote, my external SSD with all my PS4 games and PS5 games Sackboy: Big Adventure, Spider-Man Miles Morales and AC Valhalla arrived on disc today. It would be unfortunate if the console was in any way delayed or faulty!

Seriously, this is the longest week.

The release of a new gen of consoles is like Xmas, if Xmas was actually worth waiting for and only came every 7 years. The anticipation literally makes me feel like I'm a little kid again. I don't think I can take this in 7 years, and 7 years after that.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Seriously, this is the longest week.

Ha! I feel like this whole year has flashed by. It feels like every time I blink a few days zoom by. I've heard this happens as you get older!

It helps that I'm leave on Friday and next week and there is so much to get done in work before then. And you know what it's like when you have a lot to time, time goes too far.

You want to help me, Sony? Put your launch back a week I've picked up the DualSense about twice, it's just sat there on the charger waiting for it's time to come. I just spent £150 on games and what will I be playing first? Astrobot.

 

[PSman1700]

Wow, changed your tune since those github days lol

Yes, i have no trouble admitting i have been wrong, the consoles are basically a match. The ps5 is an amazing console by all means. Out of the consoles, Sony/ps5 is the winner here, or atleast, thats how i see it.
To be fair the ps5 is the most exciting PS since.... the ps2. So much AAA’s and next gen gfx with DS.

With the github some where right, then others had to give in, now the other team must accept they where wrong.
They are both great machines, same performance, if you like ms games go xbox, like sony games, go PS.

For the middle land, go pc ( ).

Now lets move on. No more wars, lets have intresting discussions on the hardwares and games.

 

[London Geezer]

Yes, i have no trouble admitting i have been wrong, the consoles are basically a match. The ps5 is an amazing console by all means. Out of the consoles, Sony/ps5 is the winner here, or atleast, thats how i see it.
To be fair the ps5 is the most exciting PS since.... the ps2. So much AAA’s and next gen gfx with DS.

With the github some where right, then others had to give in, now the other team must accept they where wrong.
They are both great machines, same performance, if you like ms games go xbox, like sony games, go PS.

For the middle land, go pc ( ).

Now lets move on. No more wars, lets have intresting discussions on the hardwares and games.

Well, while you’re in a conciliatory mood, will you also pledge not to mention huge PC GPUs in 95% of your posts too? Wink wink

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I expect Sony to shrink the PS5 rather than release a Pro - I'd like a Pro, but I don't think we can have another console this size - it's just too big.

Sony is definitely researching a Pro model already but I agree that they'll need to be on one or two newer nodes before launching said model.
Although if anything, it looks like the PS5 is severely over-engineered (in good Sony fashion for all their initial console releases). The cooler and fan are nothing short of gigantic and the whole thing is pushing less than 200W at the wall. Take away PSU inefficiency + RAM + VRM + SSD + etc. and the SoC must be pushing below 150W.
One must wonder why the hell they're putting a 350W PSU in a console that doesn't seem like it'll ever push more than 250W.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Sony is definitely researching a Pro model already but I agree that they'll need to be on one or two newer nodes before launching said model.
Although if anything, it looks like the PS5 is severely over-engineered (in good Sony fashion for all their initial console releases). The cooler and fan are nothing short of gigantic and the whole thing is pushing less than 200W at the wall. Take away PSU inefficiency + RAM + VRM + SSD + etc. and the SoC must be pushing below 150W.
One must wonder why the hell they're putting a 350W PSU in a console that doesn't seem like it'll ever push more than 250W.

We are lucky this gen coincided with the best AMD architecture since R300. Getting 200 watts of Nvidia like post-Maxwell efficiency is something nobody would have believed a year ago.

 

[manux]

Pro model doesn't necessarily need to be much faster in flops than base model. Something like dlss on hw would potentially give 50% boost on fps and require comparatively small amount of transistors to implement. It's funny if sony and ms pro models end up being very similar. In traditional world sony would go wider and try to keep clockspeed high and ms would try to raise clockspeed and not go wider. Both probably on 5nm 2-3years from now. Scaling via dlss on hw should be much better bang for buck versus trying to add something like 50% more gpu and ram bandwidth. Infinity cache could be interesting proposition for pro models if bom allows.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

Take into account that the SOC is not the only thing that can shrink. There is a lot of added circuitry there plus right now every component seems to be placed way apart to handle any heat issues. So I expect any future reduction coming more by optimizing those other components and their placement, than from the SOC itself. Also I don't think future die size reduction would bring too much benefit in terms of cost reduction.

Spoiler

Apple plz save uz

 

[Karamazov]

honestly, for standard games, PS4 pro was not much of an upgrade over PS4.
They would have to release a PS5 Expert to convince me this time.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Pro model doesn't necessarily need to be much faster in flops than base model. Something like dlss on hw would potentially give 50% boost on fps and require comparatively small amount of transistors to implement. It's funny if sony and ms pro models end up being very similar. In traditional world sony would go wider and try to keep clockspeed high and ms would try to raise clockspeed and not go wider. Both probably on 5nm 2-3years from now. Scaling via dlss on hw should be much better bang for buck versus trying to add something like 50% more gpu and ram bandwidth. Infinity cache could be interesting proposition for pro models if bom allows.

They already have a patent for a DLSS like system which may very well be in the PS5...

 

[London Geezer]

honestly, for standard games, PS4 pro was not much of an upgrade over PS4.
They would have to release a PS5 Expert to convince me this time.

After “Pro”, Sony may just call the next one “PS9 to 5”

 

[manux]

They already have a patent for a DLSS like system which may very well be in the PS5...

The thing about dlss is that it benefits from tensor cores immensely. Adding appropriate accelerator in vain of tensor cores or apple like neural net engine would make the cost of scaling a lot less. If that accelerator was generic it could be nice for all kinds of things, on the other hand hardcoding just for scaling might allow for less transistors for implementation. How it looks to me is that xbox does have special instructions for dnn acceleration but it's still only half the speed of rtx 2060 for matrix multiplies dnn's require. Of course there are non dnn ways to do scaling but to me it looks like dnn's are the way world will go in relation to image processing.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

It's getting real in the UK - Sony are sending me my USB adapter to go along side my controller charger! lol

Wow, changed your tune since those github days lol

I'm sure XSX 3rd party games will eventually start to show their advantages, by then though the PS5 will have done its job and be the console of choice and all that power advantage talk would be for nothing.

I expect Sony to shrink the PS5 rather than release a Pro - I'd like a Pro, but I don't think we can have another console this size - it's just too big.

Why do you think PS5 will automatically be console of choice? Both consoles will be sold out for next 2 years so I think if 3rd party performance are to matter, they better continue for long enough time that they are not supply constrained.

 

[chris1515]

Why do you think PS5 will automatically be console of choice? Both consoles will be sold out for next 2 years so I think if 3rd party performance are to matter, they better continue for long enough time that they are not supply constrained.

No console are sold out for two years, not PS2, not Wii, not 3DS, not PS4, not Switch. The PS4 was sold out until May/June 2014, the first 6 months.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

No console are sold out for two years, not PS2, not Wii, not 3DS, not PS4, not Switch. The PS4 was sold out until May/June 2014, the first 6 months.

By sold out I mean production constrained. Good luck getting one for everyone that is set their eyes on getting them. PS4 and Xbox One were not nearly supply constrained as PS5 and XBOX Series are (or GPUs for that matter).

Basically, only one foundry is making highest end chips, and that is TSMC. And since everyone is looking to get best bang for their mm2, that means TSMCs 7nm is completely bought out for next year. We never had as many paper launches as we had this year. Getting next gen consoles, new GPUs from Nvidia/AMD, Ryzen 5000 has been extremely hard (and it will remain so for long time).

AMD is exclusively using TMSC's 7nm for their entire stack (Ryzen destkop, mobile, server + GPUs desktop and enterprise) on top of next gen consoles. It will have to pass a long time for either to feel down about excessive inventory, and it has come at best time for MS (they had lackluster launch + all the new studios they have have nothing to show of yet). If Sony could have produced 30M units till next November they would have sold it all I think.

 

[chris1515]

By sold out I mean production constrained. Good luck getting one for everyone that is set their eyes on getting them. PS4 and Xbox One were not nearly supply constrained as PS5 and XBOX Series are (or GPUs for that matter).

Basically, only one foundry is making highest end chips, and that is TSMC. And since everyone is looking to get best bang for their mm2, that means TSMCs 7nm is completely bought out for next year. We never had as many paper launches as we had this year. Getting next gen consoles, new GPUs from Nvidia or AMD, Ryzen 5000 has been extremely hard (and it will remain so for long time).

Sony told they will produce more PS5 than PS4 until 31 march 2021 but probably June 2021 the console will not be sold out too. Wii was crazy successful and was never sold out for two years.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Sony told they will produce more PS5 than PS4 until 31 march 2021 but probably June 2021 the console will not be sold out too. Wii was crazy successful and was never sold out for two years.

Again, the landscape is completely different. As I said, Sony could sell 30M PS5's in one year, that is the level of hype, digital "revolution" and general gaming industry status that we have in 2020-2021. Its not even close to 2013 where not only did we have many more foundries producing chips, gaming landscape wasn't as big as it is today (it was at the bottom actually).

Sony will produce more PS5s then PS4s till end of Q1, of course, but so will MS. And they will both sell it all, even though as it currently stands PS5 would take a big lead over Series if they weren't supply constrained - which they are. That is an issue Sony is having right now. They will sell all PS5s for next 2 years I think, but they will only sell them against what they can produce, and they would certainly want to produce more.

It would be like comparing 8800GTX or Radeon 9800 Pro with Ampere and RDNA2. Or say Skylake and Ryzen 5000, it's not comparable. You almost can't get Ryzen 5000 nowadays, let alone Ampere or (most certainly) RDNA2. TSMC is completely booked.

EDIT

Speaking of shortages, MS just confirmed this...

I think we'll continue to see supply shortages as we head into the post-holiday quarter, so Microsoft's Q3 (January 1 to March 31, 2021). And then when we get to Q4 (April 1 to June 30) all of our supply chain continuing to go full speed heading into kind of the pre-summer months.

And that's where I start to -- I expect to see a little bit of the demand -- the supply profile, meeting the demand profile. You'll be outside of a holiday window. We'll have supply cranking over the next, what, 4, 5, 6 months. And that's when I expect to see really that demand profile start to be met, which will be really, really great. And really, what that's going to do is, once we get into that world of a great high end, call it, a great high-powered console, plus that lower-end SKU for value, I think we're going to start to see some real velocity kick up, which I'm really excited to see.