Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

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So raytracing is absent from the game after all.



In a general statement.
If your power is derived purely by high clock rate, the more cache the better. You lose too much going back to main memory.
OMG Infinity Cache on PS5 DOUBLE CONFIRMED!!
j/k... or am I?

I wonder how fast we'll see an x-ray of the PS5 SoC. Is Fritz getting one?
 
I wonder how fast we'll see an x-ray of the PS5 SoC. Is Fritz getting one?

Would it be too optimistic to think before the end of the month or end of the year? Or is even within the first 6 months too soon?
 
Would it be too optimistic to think before the end of the month or end of the year? Or is even within the first 6 months too soon?

Well I was thinking maybe until the end of the week...?
:runaway:
 
devs seem to think the SSD tech in the PS5 is a real game changer, being able to stream all their assets very fast, allowing a lot more detail during gameplay, be it graphics or sounds.
 
...
OMG Infinity Cache on PS5 DOUBLE CONFIRMED!!
j/k... or am I?

I wonder how fast we'll see an x-ray of the PS5 SoC. Is Fritz getting one?
I don't think it's infinite cache. And we know PS5 has already some custom cache on the GPU (cache scrubbers). I think unified L3 cache for the CPU is more likely. Often the main bottleneck at high framerates is the CPU, not the GPU. Shouldn't it help explain the important advantage of PS5 at 120fps against XSX? After DF article about DMC5 the ex-PS5 software engineer just quoted his own tweet (wrote 4 months ago), answering to a "1ccx>2ccx" tweet:

That is certainly one dimension of reducing inter-fabric latencies. cache latencies/invalidation and inter-core bandwidth are primary problems to solve for 120fps gaming, more so than raw RAM bandwidth IMO. latency on going out to RAM is a killer when your frame time is 8ms.

It can't be a coincidence, can it?
 
I don't think it's infinite cache. And we know PS5 has already some custom cache on the GPU (cache scrubbers). I think unified L3 cache for the CPU is more likely. Often the main bottleneck at high framerates is the CPU, not the GPU. Shouldn't it help explain the important advantage of PS5 at 120fps against XSX? After DF article about DMC5 the ex-PS5 software engineer just quoted his own tweet (wrote 4 months ago), answering to a "1ccx>2ccx" tweet:



It can't be a coincidence, can it?


Humm... and what are 120FPS good for?
PSVR2?
 
Humm... and what are 120FPS good for?
PSVR2?

Do they even have a timeline for PSVR-2? Sony Ryan's statements made it seem like it's at least two years away, maybe more. That surprised me. I was thinking it would be an easy Holiday 2021 release.
 
high frame rate performance in DMC5 is interesting. Curious to see if that becomes a trend, or just a one off. Black Ops cod war is out soon ... I think. That should make for some good comparisons.
 
Humm... and what are 120FPS good for?
PSVR2?
Well, yes. But I just thought that on consoles the cost of going to the main ram instead of cache is higher because GDDR6 latency is quite high so it makes sense to actively avoid those accesses, particularly at 120fps.

Also Naughty dog devs had to make specific conditions on their PS4 code in order to avoid, if possible, some costly hits to the other CCX L2 cache. Certainly they must have talked to Cerny about those problems.
 
BluePoint is the AAA dev that only does remakes. It's crazy. I wonder if they'll ever take a stab at their own game, or if this is just a much more financial stable route.

I remember in an interview for SoTC remake, they mentioned how hiring actual gameplay designers was a new challenge they were facing for their next project. I don't know if that next project was DC remake (and in that case, thos hiringns were nor even for major design work, but rather just tweaks for a pre-polished work), or maybe a new game they are developing in parallel or maybe an abandoned project altogether. But it highlights the pros of focusing on remastering proven titles. Your studio can consist solely of technicians and artists, and focus on remaking games that are already known to work and sell. Feels way more relaxed, even if less creatively gratifying.
 
I don't think it's infinite cache. And we know PS5 has already some custom cache on the GPU (cache scrubbers). I think unified L3 cache for the CPU is more likely. Often the main bottleneck at high framerates is the CPU, not the GPU. Shouldn't it help explain the important advantage of PS5 at 120fps against XSX? After DF article about DMC5 the ex-PS5 software engineer just quoted his own tweet (wrote 4 months ago), answering to a "1ccx>2ccx" tweet:



It can't be a coincidence, can it?

Honestly think it has nothing to do with unified vs non-unified L3$ on the CPU. More likely explanations for DMC5 performance with framerates on PS5 vs Series X are:

1: PS5 was likely lead platform for DMC5 next-gen ports

2: Series systems have been affected with devkits being further behind due to transition to Gamecore (this probably even was the reason why Capcom originally said RT wouldn't be in the Series X version at launch and patched in post-launch instead)​

Also, let's keep in mind that other Series X games like Gears 5 (Enhanced) and DiRT 5 are hitting 120 FPS with no problems so, even if PS5 CPU has unified L3$, that isn't the issue for the FPS dips on PS5 vs. Series X. Capcom has a bit of a history with sloppy performance of games on MS systems needing a later patch; RE3 Remake is a good recent example.

EDIT: I'd be interested if there are PC benchmarks of games like DMC5 (or other games with next-gen installments) running on Zen 2 CPUs, with 120 FPS options. Because I'm sure more than a few of them would have no issues in that setup, unless the bottleneck is the GPU.

Just seems a bit "jumping to conclusions" to peg the FPS performance in Performance Mode on Series X to unified vs. non-unified L3$; we'd see that type of problem regularly pop up on other PC gaming setups with ranges of CPUs (AMD, Intel) not holding steady 120 FPS. That hasn't happened, though.
 
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Honestly think it has nothing to do with unified vs non-unified L3$ on the CPU. More likely explanations for DMC5 performance with framerates on PS5 vs Series X are:

1: PS5 was likely lead platform for DMC5 next-gen ports

2: Series systems have been affected with devkits being further behind due to transition to Gamecore (this probably even was the reason why Capcom originally said RT wouldn't be in the Series X version at launch and patched in post-launch instead)​

Also, let's keep in mind that other Series X games like Gears 5 (Enhanced) and DiRT 5 are hitting 120 FPS with no problems so, even if PS5 CPU has unified L3$, that isn't the issue for the FPS dips on PS5 vs. Series X. Capcom has a bit of a history with sloppy performance of games on MS systems needing a later patch; RE3 Remake is a good recent example.

EDIT: I'd be interested if there are PC benchmarks of games like DMC5 (or other games with next-gen installments) running on Zen 2 CPUs, with 120 FPS options. Because I'm sure more than a few of them would have no issues in that setup, unless the bottleneck is the GPU.

Just seems a bit "jumping to conclusions" to peg the FPS performance in Performance Mode on Series X to unified vs. non-unified L3$; we'd see that type of problem regularly pop up on other PC gaming setups with ranges of CPUs (AMD, Intel) not holding steady 120 FPS. That hasn't happened, though.

IMHO Capcom has sloppy performance of games period.
All of their big hits have choppy framerate issues (from MH:W to RE series) and none of them are that graphically impressive.
 
BluePoint is the AAA dev that only does remakes. It's crazy. I wonder if they'll ever take a stab at their own game, or if this is just a much more financial stable route.
I've seen a bunch of interviews with AAA devs (like Naughty Dog) talking about the uphill struggle to devise a new IP and come up with new gameplay designs and mechanics with repeated trial and error like the first iteration of combat in The Last of Us, which was very detailed and flexible and absolutely not fun at all. So they binned it and started over.

That's the risk for any team creating a new game from scratch. It think explains 90% of Ubisoft's output, it's mostly a variation on a theme of tried-and-tested (if a little stale) game mechanics that generally sell well.
 
IMHO Capcom has sloppy performance of games period.
All of their big hits have choppy framerate issues (from MH:W to RE series) and none of them are that graphically impressive.

Not sure I agree with that! Capcom have been smashing it this past generation, especially in the visual department. Although I hated MHW.
 
Do they even have a timeline for PSVR-2? Sony Ryan's statements made it seem like it's at least two years away, maybe more. That surprised me. I was thinking it would be an easy Holiday 2021 release.
I too was disappointed in that interview, where he does suggest 2022 as the earliest we'll see PSVR2..
Though like the OG PS4 released with hardware features that prepared the console for PSVR (e.g. DS4 with LEDs pointing forward), so should the PS5.
 
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