Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[turkey]

Does not mean its is easy for Sony to do that for another emulator. And I am guessing Capcom did it for their games only? And for PC maybe? Not for inclusion into its own proprietary BSD based OS?

Ohh I agree I doubt it's easy but has been attempted (not without controversy recently). I tried to look up all the tech details but it's basically a "mini console" that's a huge arcade twin stick, hdmi out and standalone. It runs it's own OS and front end and had FBA as the emulator for 16 Capcom games.

I was wrong it's made by Koch Media or similar and licenses the games from Capcom. Seems a wired arrangement but perhaps that helps with licensing or is normal in ventures like this.

 

[goonergaz]

It's just an example on a company focusing on things the users didn't even ask for (and once known, it's not that they're received with a lot of enthusiasm, to be honest) instead of known wanted features by a huge fan/userbase.

Jesus, read what's inside the paragraph! Who's megaexcited for haptic feedback?

Me. I want new experiences from my new console. I believe there’s a pie chart somewhere on this forum that shows just 1.6% of time spent on Xbox One is playing BC games. If you’re that hung up get a BC PS3...I agree it’s be nice but the reality is it’s probably not going to happen.

 

[iroboto]

Me. I want new experiences from my new console. I believe there’s a pie chart somewhere on this forum that shows just 1.6% of time spent on Xbox One is playing BC games. If you’re that hung up get a BC PS3...I agree it’s be nice but the reality is it’s probably not going to happen.

Ehhh. That average will be significantly dwarfed this coming generation. With BC working from launch day the majority of people will be playing BC while waiting for titles to show up. Whereas with XBO BC and a small number of titles arrived 2 years after launch.

 

[PSman1700]

Me. I want new experiences from my new console. I believe there’s a pie chart somewhere on this forum that shows just 1.6% of time spent on Xbox One is playing BC games. If you’re that hung up get a BC PS3...I agree it’s be nice but the reality is it’s probably not going to happen.

MS can BC all the way to the 2001 xbox. Sony can do PS1/PS2. I understand PS3 might be problematic.

 

[Lalaland]

Ehhh. That average will be significantly dwarfed this coming generation. With BC working from launch day the majority of people will be playing BC while waiting for titles to show up. Whereas with XBO BC and a small number of titles arrived 2 years after launch.

I mostly played PS2 games on my PS3 for the first few months (possibly a year) because there wasn't much out, ditto PS2 and BF3 was by far my most highly played PS4 game for the first year after launch. Whither through BC or getting upgrades playing older titles on new consoles on launch is hardly new, time and again when the stats comes out they largely show that the general public just don't use it that much.

It gets much greater play in the enthusiast community because we care about these things. Consider the film buff communities reaction to Disney swallowing Fox whole versus the general public, while film buffs decried the fact they would find it next to impossible to get prints of 21st Century Fox classics like Alien/Aliens, Predator, etc (Disney charges absurd rates for this, Fox was happy to support festivals & independent cinemas with cheap prints) the general public lost themselves in an orgy of "OMG all my faves in one place" guff. You also have to consider that for MS being able to emulate Power PC code in real time is a significant advantage when they roll up on Fortune 500 companies with old PowerPC code they would like to offload to the (x86) cloud so there is some synergy for cost recovery here. Sony would either have to leverage the communities work that would lead to all sorts of challenges for them with regard to having to share that work back with the community (Sony is not Capcom, they are very familiar with and play by the OS rules) or start al that work from scratch. After seeing the video it's clear that the work necessary adds complexity to your silicon for very little generalisable benefit and worse would require emulating features that are specific to a vendor you no longer work with and is a notorious patent troll (recall NVs failed attempts to claim Android GPU license fees from everyone and their quixotic fight with Intel where they claimed to have an x86 license).

 

[Inuhanyou]

Ehhh. That average will be significantly dwarfed this coming generation. With BC working from launch day the majority of people will be playing BC while waiting for titles to show up. Whereas with XBO BC and a small number of titles arrived 2 years after launch.

In this day and age i think its somewhat of a grey topic.

"who wants to play old games" doesnt really make sense when games are games. These platforms are becoming more like steam where there is a huge list of games and users make no real distinction between old and new, its all content that they might to experience. Lack of bc conistently in consoles has fostered the dismissive attitude.

I think there are plenty of people who may not neccisarily care about bc will be happy when there are around 4k titles they can play as existing experiences when waiting for new games. And current gen titles are obviously not so old enough as to scare consumers away with their decrepitnesss

MS can BC all the way to the 2001 xbox. Sony can do PS1/PS2. I understand PS3 might be problematic.

I am quite sure the considerations between sony and ms are similar but also much different at the same time. both in technical capability and logistics among other things. I would not hold my breath.

Even in ms's advantageous position they only have a segment of og xbox games and 360 titles availible 5 years later and those libraries are many multiple times smaller than ps1 and ps2 libraries.

 

[iroboto]

Whither through BC or getting upgrades playing older titles on new consoles on launch is hardly new, time and again when the stats comes out they largely show that the general public just don't use it that much.

Yea, I get that for sure. And I think with respect to this generation I think that has changed, as gaming in the console space has changed. As alluded to below

In this day and age i think its somewhat of a grey topic.

it’s a grey area. Games that were made this generation continue forward with a patch but at the same time play with people of last gen. I’m not sure i would call that a new generation game; as long as Destiny 2 players on this gen can access and play with the players on next gen, as far as I’m concerned with respect to the idea of generations, you are playing a last gen title.

and there will be so many of these types of titles moving on. The grey area for me is whether someone would consider a ps5 patch a ps5 title. I’m looking at all the marquee PS4 titles, and some may or may not get enhancements but I intend to fully play all the titles I missed.

there’s got to be a lot of players doing that type of thing.

 

[Bickle2]

I haven't read anything in that article saying it was because of Sony. The devs don't give any explanation.

Somy has had an active policy of...discouraging scenarios where you don’t have to repurchase games for about 15 years

One of the standard techniques is to make what you can’t (due to PR hit) make illegal, you make impossible. If you set up enough hoops to jump through, many just won’t bother.

 

[Bickle2]

At least the PS5 seems to have a tall clearance to get some heatsink action in there if really needed.

It blows the air down in direct contradiction to how hot air behaves. I feel it has always been a horizontal console that got too large for most tables. If you look at the cooling in that orientation, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Bickle2]

I mostly played PS2 games on my PS3 for the first few months (possibly a year) because there wasn't much out, ditto PS2 and BF3 was by far my most highly played PS4 game for the first year after launch. Whither through BC or getting upgrades playing older titles on new consoles on launch is hardly new, time and again when the stats comes out they largely show that the general public just don't use it that much.

It gets much greater play in the enthusiast community because we care about these things. Consider the film buff communities reaction to Disney swallowing Fox whole versus the general public, while film buffs decried the fact they would find it next to impossible to get prints of 21st Century Fox classics like Alien/Aliens, Predator, etc (Disney charges absurd rates for this, Fox was happy to support festivals & independent cinemas with cheap prints) the general public lost themselves in an orgy of "OMG all my faves in one place" guff. You also have to consider that for MS being able to emulate Power PC code in real time is a significant advantage when they roll up on Fortune 500 companies with old PowerPC code they would like to offload to the (x86) cloud so there is some synergy for cost recovery here. Sony would either have to leverage the communities work that would lead to all sorts of challenges for them with regard to having to share that work back with the community (Sony is not Capcom, they are very familiar with and play by the OS rules) or start al that work from scratch. After seeing the video it's clear that the work necessary adds complexity to your silicon for very little generalisable benefit and worse would require emulating features that are specific to a vendor you no longer work with and is a notorious patent troll (recall NVs failed attempts to claim Android GPU license fees from everyone and their quixotic fight with Intel where they claimed to have an x86 license).

FOX used SWANK like nearly everyone else for non theatrical. Disney has had a blanket ban outside of prestige events and theaters on rentals for as long as I can remember. If you’re the Egyptian you get it. If you’re the Egyptian in Demoines forget it.

Microsoft isn’t emulating in real time outside of the OS. They use static binary translation to create Xbox zone versions of these games that are QC’s and tweaked by humans.

I wouldn’t worry about the cost. I’m sure they broke even during the BC gold rush, they sold a LOT of games. But since it’s been a year or more since the last big releases, of course BC play has gone down.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Somy has had an active policy of...discouraging scenarios where you don’t have to repurchase games for about 15 years

One of the standard techniques is to make what you can’t (due to PR hit) make illegal, you make impossible. If you set up enough hoops to jump through, many just won’t bother.

I think thata far too conspiratorial honestly considering sony having been the main one to spearhead bc in any capacity going back to ps2 ps3, psp games on psv ect. Nintendo are the ones most concerned with emulation and unauthorized usage of legacy content.

The reality is that sony wasnt keeping in mind compatibility in the long term when developing content and services. Which leads to them tripping over their own shoelaces and having to start anew like with ps4.

Whether its doing bc as inefficently and traditional as including the innards of previous consoles to maintain compatibility, using hard to code for architecture and exotic and different programming language each time, not keeping track of things as small as how they create their user name system far into the future breaking previous compatibility ect.

Im sure sony would love to have a huge backlog of games they could continue to sell on the store forever. If its claimed to be a matter of greed they arent pushing for that, its a contradictory arguement.

 

[Lalaland]

It blows the air down in direct contradiction to how hot air behaves. I feel it has always been a horizontal console that got too large for most tables. If you look at the cooling in that orientation, it makes a lot of sense.

In contradiction to how passive cooling works maybe but I'm not sure that's relevant to this forced air scenario, the temps involved aren't high enough for the density differences to impede airflow much and the long term benefits from being that bit higher off the ground for dust accumulation probably won out. It's hard to see this design as a dedicated horizontal unit for me due to it's shape, it just looks like an awkward bugger to balance anything on even without the "wings" but that may also be deliberate to discourage stacking it in a media centre either anyway.

 

[PSman1700]

it’s a grey area. Games that were made this generation continue forward with a patch but at the same time play with people of last gen. I’m not sure i would call that a new generation game; as long as Destiny 2 players on this gen can access and play with the players on next gen, as far as I’m concerned with respect to the idea of generations, you are playing a last gen title.

and there will be so many of these types of titles moving on. The grey area for me is whether someone would consider a ps5 patch a ps5 title. I’m looking at all the marquee PS4 titles, and some may or may not get enhancements but I intend to fully play all the titles I missed.

I think DF talked about this too in their 1m subscribers stream. Its probably also a hardware thing, we are not really getting that jump anymore, most likely because thats not possible due to stagnating hardware leaps, and games looking like cross gen titles etc. They mentioned the previous generations like going from ps1 to ps2, to ps3 and then to ps4. Rather huge advancements back then. Same for the pc where you went from a GF2 to GF3/4 etc (doom 3, far cry, hl2, to crysis).
Were not seeing that anymore, since hardware leaps are, compared to previous jumps, rather small. With graphics not evolving so much anymore, sony and ms have approached a more of a cross-gen/rolling generation strategy. MS more so then sony.

I'd say that if you want the biggest leap possible this launch period go for the PS5 with demon souls.

Its just the way it went, we are getting the best possible in all regards for being 2020 consoles. Personally i dont mind it so much, graphics are already very good for what it is, its more the incremental/detail increases nowadays, besides ray tracing and resolutions perhaps.
The 6th generation of consoles (like DF mentioned) where the golden age of gaming, while missing those days and powerfull for their time hardware, we cant expect this to ever happen again.

Compared to PC, their still an impressive value, building a pc with a 8 core zen2 class cpu, rdna2 gpu, ultra fast nvme tech and all the other components for under 1500 dollars would be a real challange. Not even considering their new cooling tech and silentness.

 

[Karamazov]

the premise of ultra fast loadings, assets loading on the fly with minor to no pop in or LOD transitions, more complex AI routines and physics thanks to pretty decent CPUs this time, very high res textures, can also be seen as a big leap, but sure going from 100 000 polygons characters to maybe 200 000 will be less and less noticeable at glance, same as RT reflections VS SSR ones.

 

[JPT]

Insert lot of BC comments here from different posters, to lazy to quote
I do not understand why we get new games, we should just get consoles and play our old games, ohh wait thats a PC

I understand the easiness of churning through your backlog of games on a newer console, that is nice, but you are actually getting this on both consoles, this time around.
Also this is always about most bang for the buck, you might have PS1 and PS2 games in backlog or want to replay, but I doubt most people do.
As stated before, personally, I think they could have dropped BC totally and saved those resources.

To me each new generation is about what new/fun/better experiences can we get, its so little about, oh I did not play Days Gone, so I will play it now, instead of Ratchet and Clank PS5 version or "some game" XSX version.
Patching DMC to load faster or TLOU2 to be 60fps/4K instead of what it was on PS4, is more in the cosmetics department, its still the same game.

 

[Strange]

Just buy a PS3 if you're so hard bent on it. It's not like they're totally unavailable now.

 

[Globalisateur]

Insert lot of BC comments here from different posters, to lazy to quote
I do not understand why we get new games, we should just get consoles and play our old games, ohh wait thats a PC

I understand the easiness of churning through your backlog of games on a newer console, that is nice, but you are actually getting this on both consoles, this time around.
Also this is always about most bang for the buck, you might have PS1 and PS2 games in backlog or want to replay, but I doubt most people do.
As stated before, personally, I think they could have dropped BC totally and saved those resources.

To me each new generation is about what new/fun/better experiences can we get, its so little about, oh I did not play Days Gone, so I will play it now, instead of Ratchet and Clank PS5 version or "some game" XSX version.
Patching DMC to load faster or TLOU2 to be 60fps/4K instead of what it was on PS4, is more in the cosmetics department, its still the same game.

I'd argue that 60fps (vs 30fps) is more than cosmetic. It improves immersion, responsiveness and gameplay which can be very important in some games, like MGS5 on PS3 vs PS4. For me MGS5 was a much better game on PS4. I agree that it won't improve a bad story.

 

[Warpspeed]

Does anyone think there could be a problem with the PS5 not getting enough ventilation when laying down horizontally, being the way the fan works to remove hot air? Hard to believe its engineers would overlook this potential issue, right?

 

[Jay]

Does anyone think there could be a problem with the PS5 not getting enough ventilation when laying down horizontally, being the way the fan works to remove hot air? Hard to believe its engineers would overlook this potential issue, right?

I think any such concerns for any console is premature at the minimum.

If your seriously concerned, then you just have to wait for a few months of it being used by millions of people to know.
Just looking at the design isn't going to tell you that it will have a problem, as you said the designers would've tested it and said its within spec.

 

[JPT]

Does anyone think there could be a problem with the PS5 not getting enough ventilation when laying down horizontally, being the way the fan works to remove hot air? Hard to believe its engineers would overlook this potential issue, right?

Its designed to be placed in that position, which means that they would be really lost in the woods if they did not test it. But of course if you place it on a duvet carpet without the stand and then put another duvet on top, it probably will not get enough air. But if you run it within "normal" parameters, ie not wrapped in a duve etc you should be good.