AMD: Zen 3 Announced [2020-10-08]

[tongue_of_colicab]

edit: and both Zen3 and RL are the last CPUs supported by the latest Intel/AMD sockets. With these prices seems like an awful time to upgrade tbh.

edit: a 100$ difference between 8 to 12 core, but 150$ from 6 to 8. Lol

I don't think so. Intel changes sockets regularly anyway and even in case of AMD am4 might last 4 years, but not all main boards support the latest CPU's. For must people having a upgrade path really doesn't matter much because by the time you have a reason to upgrade you'll have to get a new main board anyway. It becomes even less relevant if you buy smart initially (bit more performance than you might need at that moment).

 

[Rootax]

I think it's time to retire my 5820k @4.2ghz. Best cpu I ever had. Beting on 6 cores when 2-4 was the norme was great.
Anyway, am I the only one curious about the game performances of 8 cores zen 3 vs 12 cores ? With 8 cores, it's a nice monilithic "module", with no need of inter ccx communication to reach another core. With 2*6, In a game that doesn't really take advantage of more than 8 cores, i wonder what will be the perfs vs 5800x...

I don't believe it will be really worse of course, but maybe the 5800x is the sweet spot ?

 

[Erinyes]

I think it's time to retire my 5820k @4.2ghz. Best cpu I ever had. Beting on 6 cores when 2-4 was the norme was great.
Anyway, am I the only one curious about the game performances of 8 cores zen 3 vs 12 cores ? With 8 cores, it's a nice monilithic "module", with no need of inter ccx communication to reach another core. With 2*6, In a game that doesn't really take advantage of more than 8 cores, i wonder what will be the perfs vs 5800x...

I don't believe it will be really worse of course, but maybe the 5800x is the sweet spot ?

Given that this year's consoles will have 8 Zen 2 cores, I think 8 cores will remain the sweet spot for gaming for at least a few years. If purely for gaming, I think an 8 core with fast memory will be quite enough. However, if streaming or doing additional things, then a 12 core may be more future proof. But wont be immediately required.

 

[Rootax]

Yeah... I'm watching both 5900 and 5800, I'll see the real prices in europe to make a choice. I tend to keep my cpu for years, so, I guess 12 cores will be better long term. I do some video encoding, but in anycase 8 or 12 zen3 cores will be better than my 5820k...

 

[ninelven]

Really don't know WTF they were thinking with the pricing. Sure, I get it from a profitability / tech leadership perspective..... But it is 2020, read the %@$*#$ room.

 

[DieH@rd]

Very impressive bump over Zen 2, IPC gain is more than I expected. AMD is really on the roll, they finally have product that makes Intel not recommendable for any performance-winning workload.

I'm strongly considering upgrading my R5 1600 and getting my PC ready for nextgen multiplats. The only sticking point is that AMD has shown to be "too good", what if 5nm Zen4 comes in late 2021 and destroys Zen3? The eternal PC upgrade dilemma, something better is always just around the corner.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Its an awesome lineup and a fairly historical moment given they've fully taken the performance (and technology) leadership back from Intel in god knows how long. The increased price and current lack of a 5700x though definitely makes me feel comfortable about picking up a 3700x last year. That should see me through until at least Zen 5 or it's equivalent I image. And thanks to the renewed competition we can hopefully look forward to similarly impressing jumps for the next few years from both competitors.

 

[A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y]

There will be more models down the line, no doubt. AMD raised price of each model by $50 compared to current gen launch prices.

More if you consider the models that used to include a Wraith cooler.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

6600k wasn't the top end back in the day though so that's not a fair comparison. You should compare it to 6700k at the very least. Not to mention if you take inflation into account, 250€ back then is >300€ today.

RL is apparently not a full fledged TL core and when TL itself is around 5-6% behind Zen 3 in IPC, I do not expect RL to beat Zen 3. And it will come with a significantly higher power cost (and motherboard cost)

Yea that pricing I already mentioned is a bit high for the 8 core and makes the 12 core seem like a good deal. I would have expected the 8 core to remain $399 and for them to have a non-X version/5700x at $50 less.
.

I don't agree with that, back then you had the i3 with 2 cores as the bare minimum for gaming, the i5 with 4 cores that was supposed to be future proof and the i7 with 4 cores and HT more oriented to the productivity user. Right now you have the 3600x filling the i3 role, as having less than 6 cores is starting to lag performance substantially in some games, the 3700/3800x filling the role of the i5 and then the productivity oriented CPUs like the 3900x. Charging 500€ for that is extremely expensive in comparative terms, even if you add inflation which has been very low since the financial crisis.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The only sticking point is that AMD has shown to be "too good", what if 5nm Zen4 comes in late 2021 and destroys Zen3? The eternal PC upgrade dilemma, something better is always just around the corner.

It's a chance you take every time you buy a new CPU/Mobo etc. The early adopters get the most benefit but if you are a late adopter then it's the risk you take. I bought my 4790k and two months later the 5000 series was out with DDR4 etc. The 5960x was priced more than what the 4790k was at that point and a new Mobo was needed which cost more again.

I said a few pages back that I was waiting for the Zen4 CPU's but this new Zen3 might make me change my mind.

 

[Rootax]

Zen3 still doesn't support avx512, or I missed it ?

 

[Deleted member 7537]

Zen3 still doesn't support avx512, or I missed it ?

It doesn't.

 

[Erinyes]

Really don't know WTF they were thinking with the pricing. Sure, I get it from a profitability / tech leadership perspective..... But it is 2020, read the %@$*#$ room.

2020 is one of the reasons they can charge a premium. Demand is higher than usual and they will sell whatever they produce, aside from the fact that as mentioned they are just catering to the higher end of the market right now. Also the fact that they now have the highest performance and can command a premium, something Intel has been doing for years.

Very impressive bump over Zen 2, IPC gain is more than I expected. AMD is really on the roll, they finally have product that makes Intel not recommendable for any performance-winning workload.

I'm strongly considering upgrading my R5 1600 and getting my PC ready for nextgen multiplats. The only sticking point is that AMD has shown to be "too good", what if 5nm Zen4 comes in late 2021 and destroys Zen3? The eternal PC upgrade dilemma, something better is always just around the corner.

Rumors I've read so far are a move to 1 MB L2 cache, in line with TGL. I think the L3 is big enough. Hopefully AMD can achieve a 15-20% IPC increase again. 5nm should also afford some minor clock speed gains, with a greater benefit to power efficiency.

With the higher bandwidth provided by DDR5, a move to 16 core chiplets would allow them to double core count for servers. I expect them to stick to 8 core for consumer so we could likely see two different chiplet designs.

I don't agree with that, back then you had the i3 with 2 cores as the bare minimum for gaming, the i5 with 4 cores that was supposed to be future proof and the i7 with 4 cores and HT more oriented to the productivity user. Right now you have the 3600x filling the i3 role, as having less than 6 cores is starting to lag performance substantially in some games, the 3700/3800x filling the role of the i5 and then the productivity oriented CPUs like the 3900x. Charging 500€ for that is extremely expensive in comparative terms, even if you add inflation which has been very low since the financial crisis.

The dual cores were clocked too low and weren't unlocked, so they definitely weren't favoured for gaming. Most enthusiasts bought the quad cores and overclocked them. The 3600 positioning is clearly more towards the i5, as evidenced by the Ryzen 5 branding. And the same with the Ryzen 7 against the i7s obviously. As we've discussed, AMD is charging a premium at the moment, expect cheaper parts next quarter.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

Even grating you the 3700/3800x is the equivalent to an i7, the i7 was 350€ at the time, still 150€ cheaper. I mean the current 10700k is priced at 370€, it is still way cheaper than the 5800x. Anyway, we'll see but I truly do not understand what is this massive change from Zen2 that justifies the price bump. My guess is they expect to sell them and are trying to have Intel levels of margins.

edit: I do not want to look like an AMD hater, I've been looking to upgrade my i6600k for a year or so. Zen2 was kind of disappointing because it had Skylake levels of performance in gaming (and the PBO + OC "miscommunication" issue) which is what I do mostly on my PC. For productivity things I do not care much although I do video editing from time to time and additional cores is helpful. I really like the performance improvement but for me is very hard to justify sinking 450-500€ on a chip when the competition offers similar performance for 100-150€ less.

As I'm getting a PS5 (first console in 14 years lol) I may delay the purchase of a new PC until Rocket Lake, maybe even Zen4.

 

[Erinyes]

Even grating you the 3700/3800x is the equivalent to an i7, the i7 was 350€ at the time, still 150€ cheaper. I mean the current 10700k is priced at 370€, it is still way cheaper than the 5800x. Anyway, we'll see but I truly do not understand what is this massive change from Zen2 that justifies the price bump. My guess is they expect to sell them and are trying to have Intel levels of margins.

edit: I do not want to look like an AMD hater, I've been looking to upgrade my i6600k for a year or so. Zen2 was kind of disappointing because it had Skylake levels of performance in gaming (and the PBO + OC "miscommunication" issue) which is what I do mostly on my PC. For productivity things I do not care much although I do video editing from time to time and additional cores is helpful. I really like the performance improvement but for me is very hard to justify sinking 450-500€ on a chip when the competition offers similar performance for 100-150€ less.

As I'm getting a PS5 (first console in 14 years lol) I may delay the purchase of a new PC until Rocket Lake, maybe even Zen4.

What everyone is doing at the moment is comparing the 5800X to the 3700X instead of 3800X, and the 5600X to the 3600 instead of the 3600X/XT. Hence making the comparison worse than it should be, which is simply that AMD has chosen to increase MSRPs by $50. They can do this due the extra performance of Zen 3 and the fact that they are now the market leader in all segments. AMD is a corporation and ultimately their goal is ultimately to make more profits for their shareholders. Yes, there is a price bump. No, it is not $100. As stated, simply a function of the current situation and they should launch cheaper parts next quarter.

You don't sound like an AMD hater at all. In fact you've probably been more reasonable than the reactions of some die hard AMD fans I've seen across the internet. I do agree with you that getting a console now is an attractive proposition as they're the closest to desktop PC performance they've ever been, at a much lower price.

 

[Lightman]

With the rumors of 15% IPC increase and at least 4.9GHz Eng Sample leak few months back I stated in one of the threads that I fully expected MSRP price increase for Zen 3 and hoped it would only be $50. Due to pandemic and stong demant for any electronic product, I wans't sure we would get treated so lightly.
Most of us who use computers for work and can utilise 8-16 or more cores, these price increases from AMD are a non-issue as price /performance is still going up from the already excellent position when judged against Intel products.
For gamers wanting the best performance, they always spend $350-$650 on the processor, so again, they can choose 5800X or for a bit more go for 5900X or 5950Xand keep bragging about owning such a powerfull machine (nothing against bragging as I like performance at any cost - just don't ask me about cars ...)
For everyone else who was hoping to get cheap but powerfull 4-6 core Zen 3 processor, this launch is not for you. It will happen in the near future, but you have to give AMD and TSMC a bit more time to produce enough supply, otherwise the product will not stay on the shelfs more than Ryzen 3300X stayed and price will creep up much above MSRP anyway.
AMD is no longer a niche manufacturer servicing low volume customer base and have to manage demand or face similar backslash as nVidia is currently facing regarding Ampere launch.
If I ran AMD, as a business, I would also prioritise high margin, top of the line products first, limit compatibility to most recent chipsets and delay BIOSes for X470 and lower end customer base which is more price sensitive till later, when I could afford to launch cheaper variants of my new Zen 3. What I'm trying to say is, I fully expect to see lower end of Zen 3 stack launching at CES in January and this nicely will coincide with beta BIOSes for cheap X470 and B450 boards.

 

[RedVi]

I was looking at a 5700X myself so am a bit disappointed. Reasons being were price/performance and lower default TDP for when it ends up in my second mITX system with a smaller HSF.

Now the issue is that I'm not interested in 6 core as I know games are already using 8 cores and consoles will only cement this as the norm, but the 5800X doesn't offer good value for money. Stretching for the 5900X is hard since I plan to replace the system in 12-18 months so it can be passed on to my wife's system (aforementioned mITX) so that she can still play new games. I'll have to see what local prices are like at launch but so far it's looking like I'll be spending at least $200 more than I had planned and possibly having to underclock for a quiet running system when I migrate it to my second system when that time comes.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I was looking at a 5700X myself so am a bit disappointed. Reasons being were price/performance and lower default TDP for when it ends up in my second mITX system with a smaller HSF.

Now the issue is that I'm not interested in 6 core as I know games are already using 8 cores and consoles will only cement this as the norm, but the 5800X doesn't offer good value for money. Stretching for the 5900X is hard since I plan to replace the system in 12-18 months so it can be passed on to my wife's system (aforementioned mITX) so that she can still play new games. I'll have to see what local prices are like at launch but so far it's looking like I'll be spending at least $200 more than I had planned and possibly having to underclock for a quiet running system when I migrate it to my second system when that time comes.

Well hopefully the prices of the motherboards will come down a bit as you will be buying a motherboard to use that's already out in the wild for a year now. Also memory prices for DDR4 is low so that's a plus as well and this is likely to be the last DDR4 generation before Intel and AMD swap to DDR5 for next generation Motherboards.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I doubt that as DDR5 market share is expected to be only 10% in 2021 and 43% in 2024 with initial products aimed at the server market. If you want anything that isn't eye watering expensive you'll probably have to wait until 2022/23.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I doubt that as DDR5 market share is expected to be only 10% in 2021 and 43% in 2024 with initial products aimed at the server market. If you want anything that isn't eye watering expensive you'll probably have to wait until 2022/23.

Well AMD have said that they will jump to DDR5 on AM5 and Intel said same with whatever the next gen chipset is. Whether it's next year or not is up to debate as AMD's 5000 series just got released so AM5 is likely in 2022 as I don't see it next year .. maybe an announcement of AM5 and 6000 CPU Series at the end of next year.