Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

If one Skylake core at 3GHz does 3-5GB/s, then one Zen2 core at 3.5GHz should do more than that. Sony is claiming the decompressor corresponds to 9x Zen2 cores. Unless these hypothetical cores are working at 300MHz, claiming the decompressor is doing the same as 9 Zen2 cores is a lie.

I also don’t understand how the decompressor can correspond to 9 Zen2 cores. If it’s bullshit, then fine. But if it’s true, then HOW?? Is it because it has one operation to do, and nothing else? And it is that fast at that one operation? Have I just answered my own question?
 
I also don’t understand how the decompressor can correspond to 9 Zen2 cores. If it’s bullshit, then fine. But if it’s true, then HOW?? Is it because it has one operation to do, and nothing else? And it is that fast at that one operation? Have I just answered my own question?

Yes most likely. I think it's not because those zen 2 cores ain't powerfull, they are just 'bad' at the job the kraken/decompression unit excells at.
It reminds me of NV's shadowplay, it was introduced with the gtx660 and up. Before that, it was impossible to record ingame gameplay without the system coming to a crawl, if you wanted 'decent' quality. With kepler NV added hw encoding block to the GPU's, and even lower end systems had/have no problem recording even 4k 60fps at high bitrates, all while playing cpu intensive games like BF4 MP.
 
If one Skylake core at 3GHz does 3-5GB/s, then one Zen2 core at 3.5GHz should do more than that. Sony is claiming the decompressor corresponds to 9x Zen2 cores. Unless these hypothetical cores are working at 300MHz, claiming the decompressor is doing the same as 9 Zen2 cores is a lie.
Was Sonys claims, specifically about kraken is more my question I guess.
I was under the impression kraken was additive. Are these benches doing all the other decompressons that Sony was talking about in regards to how many zen cores it would take.
 
Massive overengineering for some things, while leaving other things lacking (cough memory bandwidth on PS4 Pro and PS5 cough), yep that sounds like Cerny.

Also this sub is weirdly obsessive with Oodle. It just makes the final package a bit smaller guys, that's it, and it's lossy compression on top of the already lossy block compression formats as it is. Honestly only packing Z-lib kinda sucks, for compression of the game without the CPU getting involved in decompression Microsoft's BCPack is probably a good deal better. Deflate compression ratios for textures suck, you need image specific compression schemes to get good ratios. BCpack could easily fit another 4:1 lossless compression or better with realtime asic decompression, which the z-lib just doesn't match.


Wait some benchmark to know which one is better between BCPack and oodle texture or maybe you are one of this less than 10 peoples on earth knowing how the two perform the best.

At the end Kraken is much faster to decode than zilb maybe the ASIC decompressor is not more expensive than the one in Xbox Series X and the only difference in I/O is the second ARM A5 CPU on the I/O side compared to Xbox Series X.

Console are a compromise and they estimated more than 14 Gbps GDDR6 cost too much.
 
If one Skylake core at 3GHz does 3-5GB/s, then one Zen2 core at 3.5GHz should do more than that. Sony is claiming the decompressor corresponds to 9x Zen2 cores. Unless these hypothetical cores are working at 300MHz, claiming the decompressor is doing the same as 9 Zen2 cores is a lie.
You mixed up the numbers. Cerny's "equivalent to 9 Zen2 cores" statement related to the KRAKEN hardware decompressor. The numbers you quoted relate to OODLE TEXTURE. Read the entire twitter feed: They are using compute shaders for texture decompression on PS5/XSX - and are reaching nearly 200GB/s (output) doing so. In comparison to THAT, a Skylake core at 3GHz does 3-5GB/s (i.e. not bad - but it's faster to do it on the GPU; that's what Fabian Giesen meant to say).

In contrast, Cerny was referring to KRAKEN format decompression, basically stating that it would take 9 Zen2 cores to decompress KRAKEN format input data at the raw speed the PS5 SSD is capable of reading it (5GB/s+).
 
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Wait some benchmark to know which one is better between BCPack and oodle texture or maybe you are one of this less than 10 peoples on earth knowing how the two perform the best.
This is such a weird number to throw it, it suggests that only 10 people have access to both the PS5 and Xbox Series X hardware and that just doesn't sound right. Fine, we know Microsoft are behind with devkits but to that degree? I don't buy it. :nope:
 
This is such a weird number to throw it, it suggests that only 10 people have access to both the PS5 and Xbox Series X hardware and that just doesn't sound right. Fine, we know Microsoft are behind with devkits but to that degree? I don't buy it. :nope:

To be fair, he said

AFAIK the number of people, world-wide, who have so far had access to both BCPack and the various Oodle Texture options and actually bothered to do a proper comparison is in the single digits, and I know all of them by name. Everyone else's opinion is based on zero data.

Actually bothered to do the comparison is bit important. Also many MS devs might not have bothered to license Kraken for XSX since they, I assume, get BCPack for free.
Of course PS5 Kraken vs XSX BCPack can still be done, but hardware comes into play also.
 
Wasn't Oodle Texture a very recent thing, so perhaps that is the more limiting aspect than HW Devkits.
 
This is such a weird number to throw it, it suggests that only 10 people have access to both the PS5 and Xbox Series X hardware and that just doesn't sound right. Fine, we know Microsoft are behind with devkits but to that degree? I don't buy it. :nope:

Oodle texture was just released when he said it. He probably speaks about the preview of the product. He said they did some tests on games data before release and the priority was PS5.

Probably some people did some early test or some people did some tests in the three or four days after the official release of Oodle textures.

This is such a weird number to throw it, it suggests that only 10 people have access to both the PS5 and Xbox Series X hardware and that just doesn't sound right. Fine, we know Microsoft are behind with devkits but to that degree? I don't buy it. :nope:

Oodle texture is available on Xbox Series X why people will need to evaluate BCPack on two different consoles and one where BCPack is not available. They sold a software, they don't care about the difference of SSD speed or ASIC decompressor between the two consoles.
 
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I also don’t understand how the decompressor can correspond to 9 Zen2 cores. If it’s bullshit, then fine. But if it’s true, then HOW?? Is it because it has one operation to do, and nothing else? And it is that fast at that one operation? Have I just answered my own question?

Yes.

CPU is like a guy whom knows how to do 10000 different things, not as fast as possible but he can do them. General purpose prosessors

Special chip for certain function is like an autistic guy whom does only one thing really really fast, but have no idea about all the other stuff. Fixed function prosessors

It is easier to calculate one thing really fast, than having to calculate multiple different things with the same chip
 
You mixed up the numbers. Cerny's "equivalent to 9 Zen2 cores" statement related to the KRAKEN hardware decompressor. The numbers you quoted relate to OODLE TEXTURE. Read the entire twitter feed: They are using compute shaders for texture decompression on PS5/XSX - and are reaching nearly 200GB/s (output) doing so.

Damn 200GB/s, GPU's seem very effective for certain tasks. GPU manufacturers could dedicate a CU/block for this kind of operations in the future.
 
Bitstream processing that don't really need random access from ram over a large or unpredictable data window look like very good candidates for fixed functions blocks. Codecs, audio/video filters, decompression...

They are also very well suited for a cell-like architecture if the flexibility of a cpu is still important (which seems to be the ideology behind tempest). DMA the bitstream in and out, and process one block at a time in an sram buffer just big enough for the block size. It's perfect data locality, impervious to latency, and no big stalls from cache misses.
 
Damn 200GB/s, GPU's seem very effective for certain tasks. GPU manufacturers could dedicate a CU/block for this kind of operations in the future.
You still need I/O fast enough to feed the decompression block. I think this test was done on compressed data already in memory.
 
Yes. All the numbers Cerny gave us were done with benchmarks without the recent Oodle textures.

Which is crazy to me....people were impressed with 5gb per second let alone compressed 8 to 9gb per sec bw speeds.

But because of oodle(how did sony license it for all devs so fast?), the numbers we have are effectively the low ball expectations for i\o speed in addition to significantly smaller game sizes and other things?

How does a simple software solution for game compression not even originally factored in become so important for this process? And it just so happens to get significantly faster when put on top of the ps5s kraken decompressor? I feel like its way too good to be true.

Someone smarter than me in this thread, tell me what i am missing about this
 
But because of oodle(how did sony license it for all devs so fast?),

Sony were already working closely with Rad Game Tools for Kraken, so licensing an additional piece of tech was likely straight forward and it is not like Oodle requires bespoke hardware, it leverages the existing Kraken decompression block in Sony's I/O chip.

Giving all devs a defacto licence is smart, hopefully Sony learned something from the issues encountered with Fallout 4 mods on PS4 which because PS4 uses a specific audio format, all generic Fallout 4 mods that use a different audio format won't work without some effort.
 
Quick FAQ on PS4 compatibility.

https://blog.playstation.com/2020/0...ns-on-compatible-ps4-peripherals-accessories/

PlayStation said:
Which existing PS4 peripherals/accessories will work on PS5?
  • Specialty peripherals, such as officially licensed racing wheels, arcade sticks, and flight sticks, will work with PS5 games and supported PS4 games.
  • The Platinum and Gold Wireless Headsets, as well as third-party headsets that connect via USB port or audio jack, will work on PS5 (the headset companion app is not compatible with PS5).
  • The DualShock 4 wireless controller and PlayStation officially licensed third-party gamepad controllers will work with supported PS4 games.
  • Both the PS Move Motion Controllers and the PlayStation VR Aim Controller will work with supported PS VR games on PS5.
Please note, not all PlayStation officially licensed or third-party peripherals/accessories may work on PS5. We recommend checking with the manufacturer to confirm whether a product will work on PS5 and specific titles.

PlayStation said:
Will DualShock 4 work with PS5 games?

No, we believe that PS5 games should take advantage of the new capabilities and features we’re bringing to the platform, including the features of DualSense wireless controller.

PlayStation said:
Is the PlayStation Camera for PS4 compatible with PS5?

Yes, PlayStation Camera will work with PS5 for playing supported PS VR games. It will require a PlayStation Camera adaptor that will be provided at no additional cost to PS VR users. More details on how to get the adaptor will be announced at a later date.
 
The PS4's existing PlayStation Camera accessory will also work on the PS5, though it will require an adaptor that Sony says it will be providing to users for free.

I suspect it will be a PS4 AUX female to MALE USB. Fuck yeah! Finally PSVR on PC will be easier to setup than using multiple PS3 cameras taking a bunch of usb ports and taking time to calibrate.
 
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