How to sell next-gen consoles, Marketing, Positioning, and Pricing [2020]

[AlNom]

Scorn was announced and is PC/Xbox exclusive from a third party
The Ascent is xbox eclusive this holiday
Second Extinction
deium

session
tunic
project mara

crossfire x

Grounded

Tell Me why

Lot of xbox /pc exclusive annoucned already.

Can you list the studios too? I could have done without the trailers just for a quick list.

 

[eastmen]

Oh I will try

Project Mara - Ninja Theory

MS flight Sim - Asobo

Grounded - Obsidian (its a lot of fun they just put out the beta for insiders)

Cross Fire X - Smilegate - MS publishing

Tell me why - Donitnod entertainment

The Medium Bloober Team

Scorn - Ebb Software

Ascent - Neon Giant

Call of Sea - Out of the Blue

Second Extinction - Systemic Reaction

Falconeer - Tomas Sala

Tunic - Andrew Shouldice

Session - Crea-ture studios


That's all I got

 

[Jay]

But what is the difference ?

Ask Sony and MS what the difference is.

The point being made was one will have first party next gen exclusives, the other won't for around a year, and I don't see how someone can argue that's not the case. Because.....

Xsx will not have first party next gen exclusives for at least a year, and then I also expect a slight pivot in Xbox marketing.

Even xsx is getting (next gen) exclusives, just not first party. You can debate with them when they said they would have to compromise the experience too much to release on XO.

It will be interesting as Sony and MS has different strategies, and I'm interested to see how it plays out. I could easily argue both sides, from a gamers and business perspective.
But it is a difference even if you try to say it's not.
I'm not going to get into the list wars your doing, especially as I never said it's good or bad either way.

 

[AlNom]

I'm not going to get into the list wars your doing, especially as I never said it's good or bad either way.

Just wanted to clear up that the two lists I put together are just for reference on what they have cooking internally or what they could be cooking for launch year... (hence initially leaving out 3rd party).

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Just wanted to clear up that the two lists I put together are just for reference on what they have cooking internally or what they could be cooking for launch year... (hence initially leaving out 3rd party).

And when that all releases, we'll all just enjoy the things we get to play on our platform of choice, and admire the stuff on other platforms, right internet?

Right?..

Why are you looking at me like that?

Why are you drooling?

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

...

 

[eastmen]

Ask Sony and MS what the difference is.

The point being made was one will have first party next gen exclusives, the other won't for around a year, and I don't see how someone can argue that's not the case. Because.....

Xsx will not have first party next gen exclusives for at least a year, and then I also expect a slight pivot in Xbox marketing.

Even xsx is getting (next gen) exclusives, just not first party. You can debate with them when they said they would have to compromise the experience too much to release on XO.

It will be interesting as Sony and MS has different strategies, and I'm interested to see how it plays out. I could easily argue both sides, from a gamers and business perspective.
But it is a difference even if you try to say it's not.
I'm not going to get into the list wars your doing, especially as I never said it's good or bad either way.

and I've said microsoft will have xbox exclusives and their first party titles will take full advantage of the new consoles

 

[iroboto]

“With Samsung Access, you get your choice of a streaming or gaming service (up to a $120 value), included at no additional cost. Choose from Showtime, Sling TV, Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, YouTube Music Premium, YouTube Premium or YouTube TV.”

https://seasonedgaming.com/2020/06/...-to-be-offered-as-a-service-with-samsung-tvs/

I can only suspect XCloud app built into TV's being the last step.

 

[eastmen]

“With Samsung Access, you get your choice of a streaming or gaming service (up to a $120 value), included at no additional cost. Choose from Showtime, Sling TV, Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, YouTube Music Premium, YouTube Premium or YouTube TV.”

https://seasonedgaming.com/2020/06/...-to-be-offered-as-a-service-with-samsung-tvs/

I can only suspect XCloud app built into TV's being the last step.

Smart Tv's aren't enough. They need to either partner with Samsung or on their own and make a streaming stick. Right now on the fire stick you can't get any microsoft products there is no mixer and I doubt there would be xcloud.

But a galaxy or surface stick could work. MS has the SQ1 cpu in their surface x . The SQ1 has that cinema core for decoding which is supposed to be pretty energy efficient and fast. They also have that custom AI engine in it that does that creepy video eye stuff. Maybe they could even use that AI chip to do some lifting.

If they can make something cheap enough they could sell it at $50 or a $100 and then offer x amount of service with it.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Smart Tv's aren't enough. They need to either partner with Samsung or on their own and make a streaming stick. Right now on the fire stick you can't get any microsoft products there is no mixer and I doubt there would be xcloud.

But a galaxy or surface stick could work. MS has the SQ1 cpu in their surface x . The SQ1 has that cinema core for decoding which is supposed to be pretty energy efficient and fast. They also have that custom AI engine in it that does that creepy video eye stuff. Maybe they could even use that AI chip to do some lifting.

If they can make something cheap enough they could sell it at $50 or a $100 and then offer x amount of service with it.

That was pretty much the idea with PSTV. A microconsole which was basically a PSVita with HDMI out in place of a screen.

My girlfriend at the time had one, and it was pretty sound in principle: a small cheap console, that was mostly for streaming, but could play games locally.

Of course, the Vita is notorious for being poorly handled, and the PSTV was no exception. They patched out PSNow compatibility on both. Plant pots.

I'm still kind of torn over which would be the better device for both Sony and MS: a streaming stick, or a 7nm micro version of their base consoles. I'll bet that the XB1/PS4 will both be quite competitive with the Switch 2, at least to the extent that the Switch is currently competitive with them.

Edit: spelling

 

[eastmen]

That was pretty much the idea with PSTV. A microconsole which was basically a PSVita with HDMI out in place of a screen.

My girlfriend at the time had one, and it was pretty sound in principle: a small cheap console, that was mostly for streaming, but could play games locally.

Of course, the Vita is notorious for being poorly handled, and the PSTV was no exception. They patched out PSNow comparability on both. Plant pots.

I'm still kind of torn over which would be the better device for both Sony and MS: a streaming stick, or a 7nm micro version of their base consoles. I'll bet that the XB1/PS4 will both be quite competitive with the Switch 2, at least to the extent that the Switch is currently competitive with them.

How about this

Halo (as in high end, top of the line) gaming machine Xbox Series X
Midrange gaming machine Xbox Series S (lockheart)
Surface / Xbox stick - SP1 or maybe Sp2 with some ram in either a small stick or something small like the fire tv , about the size of a wallet. Regular Apps like Netflix , microsoft video / spotify and stuff like that. Xcloud and console to stick streaming. Kids watching a moving on the living room tv , stream your series x to your stick in your bedroom.

Mobile - use other peoples devices - iPhones/ android phones , android / ios tablets , windows pcs like laptops or tablets and xcloud / console to stick streaming. The xbox control connects to all these devices


This is what I see microsoft doing. They could do a hand held but it would compete with Nintendo. I would think they would need something on the power level of the xbox one. I dunno maybe if AMD has something like nivdia's DLSS so they could do a 1080p screen but render games at 720p or even 480p and upscale to 1080p ? That way they can get away with a lower powered apu from amd. If we are taling about 2021 then a zen 3 class chip plus rdna 2. That could be a compelling device but how long would battery life last ? I think you need 4 hours. The switch I have only ever got 3 hours which is meh. But 4 -5 hours would be great. I mean dell has a design

go to 3 minutes into the video. I would easily buy a console like this with the specs I posted above. Microsoft has done some great cooling designs for surface. Since that dell concept does have removable controllers but you could remove that feature and expand heating plates like in the surface .

This is the pro 6

So you'd be able to add some active cooling to make it more effective like some of the higher The i7 version has a fan on the upper right side to allow for higher temps and less throttling


This is the switch lite cooling in comparison
https://images.hothardware.com/cont.../content/Nintendo_Switch_Revised_Internal.jpg

here is the original
https://zdnet4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i...1b04fdaed1fcef5ee10af5/2017-03-0409-41-01.jpg

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Halo
Midrange
Surface / Xbox stick

I can see that being an eventuality for PS & XBox. But it's a tricky matter of power and timing. Less so for the halo products.

Something like a stick seems inevitable, given the likely future shift towards streaming, and the unlikelihood that either Sony or MS would want to relinquish some degree of control over the end user's hardware. And maybe a simple streaming stick would do.

But maybe on the march towards 5nm and 3nm, it starts to make sense to invest in an SoC that can play games locally, a low power SoC that can be deployed in stick, portable, or tablet form. Directly emulated by the halo console, so developers only have to make and deploy one binary. And, much like the XSX does the XB1, several instances emulated on the halo console at once.

The midrange device is in a tricky place. If developers have already had to ensure compatibility with it (let's say Scarlet's 3.0GHz 8c16t Zen, 24CU 1.6GHz RDNA2, 12/16GB GDDR6, same storage) then maybe it's appealing, that's a pretty solid device, but its value depends on how much cheaper that would make it.

It's important not to make developers lives too tricky with a long, messy list of near identical products, which is why I lean in the direction of micro versions of the current base consoles. 12/18CU's at 914/800MHz and 8 single threaded cores running at 1.75/1.6GHz would sip power on RDNA2 and Zen 2. Something so low power could make for a fine, cheap microconsole which could be powered by an optional battery pack. Integrate solid streaming tech and rely on the ubiquity of Android/iOS devices. Maybe even get an app out on the Switch for lols.

 

[eastmen]

I can see that being an eventuality for PS & XBox. But it's a tricky matter of power and timing. Less so for the halo products.

Something like a stick seems inevitable, given the likely future shift towards streaming, and the unlikelihood that either Sony or MS would want to relinquish some degree of control over the end user's hardware. And maybe a simple streaming stick would do.

But maybe on the march towards 5nm and 3nm, it starts to make sense to invest in an SoC that can play games locally, a low power SoC that can be deployed in stick, portable, or tablet form. Directly emulated by the halo console, so developers only have to make and deploy one binary. And, much like the XSX does the XB1, several instances emulated on the halo console at once.

The midrange device is in a tricky place. If developers have already had to ensure compatibility with it (let's say Scarlet's 3.0GHz 8c16t Zen, 24CU 1.6GHz RDNA2, 12/16GB GDDR6, same storage) then maybe it's appealing, that's a pretty solid device, but its value depends on how much cheaper that would make it.

It's important not to make developers lives too tricky with a long, messy list of near identical products, which is why I lean in the direction of micro versions of the current base consoles. 12/18CU's at 914/800MHz and 8 single threaded cores running at 1.75/1.6GHz would sip power on RDNA2 and Zen 2. Something so low power could make for a fine, cheap microconsole which could be powered by an optional battery pack. Integrate solid streaming tech and rely on the ubiquity of Android/iOS devices. Maybe even get an app out on the Switch for lols.

The problem with a stick is how little cooling it gets. A lot of them are just plugged directly into the back of a tv which itself can get very hot. You can make something bigger to make up for it but then its a bigger device which some people may not want. The hardware for stadia is just streaming the game and still heats up and has cooling issues.

For midrange we already heard of lock heart. So I think you'd be fine if your targeting 1080p with that type of hardware. I don't see your described device really being attractive and the cpu would be pretty cut down. I think that's the last place they should cut from. But hey we will see if 2020 doesn't kill us all

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Do we really really think there is a significant portion of folks interesting in Microsoft's cloud services that don't have a smart TV already? The stick would be for those people. HDMI slots are limited and Microsoft are competing with sticks from Google, Amazon, Netflix and others.

 

[Jay]

Do we really really think there is a significant portion of folks interesting in Microsoft's cloud services that don't have a smart TV already? The stick would be for those people. HDMI slots are limited and Microsoft are competing with sticks from Google, Amazon, Netflix and others.

I doubt that smart tvs would have much problem being able to decode xcloud streams.

I think the biggest benefit to a stick is using the controller custom wireless protocol and software stack for improved latency compared to some generic Bluetooth stack where latency wasn't considered a big issue

 

[eastmen]

Do we really really think there is a significant portion of folks interesting in Microsoft's cloud services that don't have a smart TV already? The stick would be for those people. HDMI slots are limited and Microsoft are competing with sticks from Google, Amazon, Netflix and others.

A lot of tv's have really bad hardware inside of them and are barely supported by the manufacturer. So I would wager that its easier to just release a low cost stick. That way you can control the whole environment and really focus on improvements on one SOC instead of a vast swatch of product.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

A lot of tv's have really bad hardware inside of them and are barely supported by the manufacturer. So I would wager that its easier to just release a low cost stick. That way you can control the whole environment and really focus on improvements on one SOC instead of a vast swatch of product.

I agree, but that wasn't the question. For the stick to be cost effective they need to be making tens and of millions of them. The appeal of Microsoft's cloud services seems minuscule to Netflix, Amazon and other mass media providers with their own sticks and like I said, HDMI/USB ports on TVs are limited.

 

[eastmen]

I agree, but that wasn't the question. For the stick to be cost effective they need to be making tens and of millions of them. The appeal of Microsoft's cloud services seems minuscule to Netflix, Amazon and other mass media providers with their own sticks and like I said, HDMI/USB ports on TVs are limited.

it would depend on the price of the stick. The fire stick 4k sells as low as $25 bucks on sale so how much do you think they are producing them for ? If MS has a stick design that's low enough they could actually just bundle it with a long enough duration of game pass to make it worth while. I think the key would be what other services they get on it. They would need Netflix / hulu / Disney plus and so on to compete.

I don't know about you but if I was in on the xbox eco system and bought an xbox series x . I wouldn't mind having a xbox stick or surface stick that I can stream my console too that way I only need one expensive xbox. If it lets me replace fire sticks cheaply with the same functionality then why not?

 

[AzBat]

it would depend on the price of the stick. The fire stick 4k sells as low as $25 bucks on sale so how much do you think they are producing them for ? If MS has a stick design that's low enough they could actually just bundle it with a long enough duration of game pass to make it worth while. I think the key would be what other services they get on it. They would need Netflix / hulu / Disney plus and so on to compete.

I don't know about you but if I was in on the xbox eco system and bought an xbox series x . I wouldn't mind having a xbox stick or surface stick that I can stream my console too that way I only need one expensive xbox. If it lets me replace fire sticks cheaply with the same functionality then why not?

I would definitely like something like that for my kids instead of hammy down consoles. With a family Game Pass & xCloud I could get back my account and console. LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[iroboto]

Having a lot of features is nice to have, but, the main game for both is pricing vs each other. Someone is going to have to concede pricing first. Giving the opportunity for the other to undercut their competition.

really curious to see how this will play out.

 

[eastmen]

I would definitely like something like that for my kids instead of hammy down consoles. With a family Game Pass & xCloud I could get back my account and console. LOL

Tommy McClain

have you used the xcloud home console streaming yet ?