Business ramifications of Backwards and Forwards Compatibility *spawn*

[tongue_of_colicab]

I suppose one of the big business advantages is that 100% BC will be a great tool to bind customer to a brand. In reality most people might not play their old games, but emotionally the thought that all the games you bought will work on the next console, might be a trigger to not switch over to the competition.

Another thing might be library size and game pricing. Just look at Steam, how many people haven't bought an old game just because it was cheap? Selling 360/one games for a couple of bucks could be a small gold mine if not changes to the games are required to run it.

 

[eastmen]

I suppose one of the big business advantages is that 100% BC will be a great tool to bind customer to a brand. In reality most people might not play their old games, but emotionally the thought that all the games you bought will work on the next console, might be a trigger to not switch over to the competition.

Another thing might be library size and game pricing. Just look at Steam, how many people haven't bought an old game just because it was cheap? Selling 360/one games for a couple of bucks could be a small gold mine if not changes to the games are required to run it.

I think that is microsofts plan with xcloud and game pass. You no longer have real generations because all your xbox games are always with you. Yes there will be games missing from the original xbox and xbox 360 and maybe even a few from the one but as we move forward new types of licensing will be done.

Its just like with TV a lot of old shows needed to renew the rights to songs and couldn't so you have generic songs instead. A big one was Married with Children. Watch it on tv or buy the dvds and it had the real music but stream it ? Nope. But now tv shows are being made with streaming in mind.

Microsoft is trying to build a huge library of content for gamers and I am sure they will start to pay other companies to put games on the service like neo geo or turbo graphics and the like. or they might buy a company with a big catalog like some of the rumors of Capcom and konami and sega. But this is the future we are going for

https://nypost.com/2019/09/16/netflix-buys-streaming-rights-for-seinfeld/

Look at the amount of money companies are paying for stream rights on tv shows. Netflix shelled out big to keep friends for an extra year before HBO MAX launched and now they are paying big for Seinfeld. Disney dropped 50B on fox for all of its content which will bolster hulu and Disney plus.

That is whats coming to consoles. Nintendo is in a good position having made content from the 80s with strong first party IP that has never really faded from the zetigist. Sony has a lot of good content also from the Mid 90s on ward. But MS is late to the game so its more crucial for them to build all this out. They know that Game pass ultimate becomes a much easier sell when its hey spend x amount of money , get access to hundreds of games across generation and also be able to purchase new games. Oh and if you buy it on xbox you can play it on your console , on your windows device or android or ios device. So why buy Destiny 3 on a p5 and only play it on ps5 or on a switch and only play it there and stadia ? Why buy it and only be able to stream it if you have a better box to play it with at home.

I look forward to what MS is doing because lets face it 3D games have aged badly. You take a game like Super Mario brothers and yes it doesn't look as good as cup head. But it still easy to pick up and easy to understand. Super Nintendo is more of the same. But pick up some early 3D games like Golden Eye or Resident evil or Tomb raider and yikes that are a mess. Even fast forwarding in time to the xbox 360 generation and its still rough. If MS has invested in BC where I can play those games in 4k with modern filtering modes and FSAA then yea I will go back and play a lot. If they are able to fix frame rate issues or even offer 8k options for when 8k tvs become affordable. That is the future.

I hope Sony and Nintendo are also on board for that future. The rumors of remakes for all the 3D marios sound great. But are they going to keep doing that every generation to keep them looking better or will we get a remake and then wait generations for them to look at them again ? For generations before they come to another Nintendo platform?


Anyway that's my rant.

 

[HBRU]

I suppose one of the big business advantages is that 100% BC will be a great tool to bind customer to a brand. In reality most people might not play their old games, but emotionally the thought that all the games you bought will work on the next console, might be a trigger to not switch over to the competition.

Another thing might be library size and game pricing. Just look at Steam, how many people haven't bought an old game just because it was cheap? Selling 360/one games for a couple of bucks could be a small gold mine if not changes to the games are required to run it.

Yes. Definitively true.

 

[vjPiedPiper]

I suppose one of the big business advantages is that 100% BC will be a great tool to bind customer to a brand. In reality most people might not play their old games, but emotionally the thought that all the games you bought will work on the next console, might be a trigger to not switch over to the competition.

Another thing might be library size and game pricing. Just look at Steam, how many people haven't bought an old game just because it was cheap? Selling 360/one games for a couple of bucks could be a small gold mine if not changes to the games are required to run it.

In my case it's actually the opposite!
i was 360 last gen, PS4 this gen,
can't wait for XSX next-gen - confident in the knowledge that i will be able to play through the few MS exclusive titles i missed out on this gen.
Eg. For me it's a few Forza games, gears and Halo, I will get to play them all, and probably better than they ever played on the Current gen, when i go to XSX next gen.

Like-wise i'll be sad about missing out on the Next Spiderman, and Horizon Zero dawn 2, but I will either get a cheap PS5 late in the generation, or wait till they are playable via BC on the PS6

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I think that is microsofts plan with xcloud and game pass. You no longer have real generations because all your xbox games are always with you. Yes there will be games missing from the original xbox and xbox 360 and maybe even a few from the one but as we move forward new types of licensing will be done.

I think you're probably right but "always" is a long time particularly vis-a-vis licensing. We've seen multiple versions of GTA, which uses a lot of licensed music, blip in and out of availability on various platforms with shifting music licensing issues, or new publishers buying old and deciding not to renew licensing or distribution. This is also why sometimes shows and movies blip in and out of availability on streaming platforms, it's not always about lack of interest in the user base.

I think this is more likely going to impact third parties - I can't for the life of me recall any Microsoft first party games that used licensed content.

 

[Aenima]

I think this is more likely going to impact third parties - I can't for the life of me recall any Microsoft first party games that used licensed content.

The Forza games have been heavily impacted by licensing issues. Which includes (AFAIR) Horizon 1 & 2, Motorsport 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6. It seems car licensing is tricky.

 

[eastmen]

I think you're probably right but "always" is a long time particularly vis-a-vis licensing. We've seen multiple versions of GTA, which uses a lot of licensed music, blip in and out of availability on various platforms with shifting music licensing issues, or new publishers buying old and deciding not to renew licensing or distribution. This is also why sometimes shows and movies blip in and out of availability on streaming platforms, it's not always about lack of interest in the user base.

I think this is more likely going to impact third parties - I can't for the life of me recall any Microsoft first party games that used licensed content.

The last GTA game released almost a decade ago so I am sure that contracts are changing. I'm also sure that companies are now licensing for platforms and not specific consoles;. Contracts today and going forward are made more with the thought of long term revenue instead of the deals ending at a specific date. The reason why shows disappear or are edited around is because the liscensing was specific in the platforms and time frame it can be used

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The last GTA game released almost a decade ago so I am sure that contracts are changing.

Not in music. That's pretty much still stuck how it was a couple of decades back.

 

[BRiT]

Not in music. That's pretty much still stuck how it was a couple of decades back.

MS said they changed their music licensing terms for games in 2015 so they wouldn't have the same issues going forward.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

MS said they changed their music licensing terms for games in 2015 so they wouldn't have the same issues going forward.

For Microsoft first party games, sure. Microsoft can't retroactively change a commercial licensing agreement by a third party publisher and a music publisher. As I said above, I think this will impact third parties more - I can't recall a first party games with licensed music from either Microsoft or Nintendo. Even games like Fallout which has music 40-50 years old, folks turn off the Pipboy radio to avoid copyright strikes on YouTube. Music remains a music licensing hell.

 

[BRiT]

Oh, absolutely unless MS pushed those terms down to 3rd parties who want to publish on their platforms. Or maybe they put in terms that MS could ship game with replacement music if any tracks expired.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Oh, absolutely unless MS pushed those terms down to 3rd parties who want to publish on their platforms. Or maybe they put in terms that MS could ship game with replacement music if any tracks expired.

For Microsoft to do this, they would need to be party to the contract between the creator and licensor and given such things are confidential, I can't see how this would work. I'm equally sure that Microsoft do not want the responsibility of monitoring licensable content used within games on their platform and being responsible for providing replacement content when licenses expires.

This is down the publisher or whoever owns the rights, which it why it's been TakeTwo who suspended sales of GTA on digital platforms and resumed sales following changes. I know this all a bit silly, but these are the business ramifications of platform promoting software perpetuity. And it's not limited to just limited content licensing, how long do Sony have the right to sell Spider-Man? I own that digitally, bought on PS4, will I still have access to download that on PS6 in 2027 or will Sony's license have expired?

edit: inserted 'limited content'

 

[BRiT]

Your question is such short term, I'm wondering if they can still distribute to NextGen Nextgen, like in 2034. There has to be some sort of give and take between the platform holders and the publishers and the IP holders (including the music artists as well as franchise owners).

I know from X360 titles that most of them that get pulled from the online store are because the rights of that publisher expired. However I'm still able to download the game if I bought it previously. I haven't gone through the list of titles like that to see if any are Xbox One BC and if one can still do new installations from disc. Or if I can still trigger an install on the One going through owned but not installed game list.

Though if it's oXbox One BC then things may have been renegotiated when they brought it to BC, so might not be a good fit test.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Your question is such short term, I'm wondering if they can still distribute to NextGen Nextgen, like in 2034. There has to be some sort of give and take between the platform holders and the publishers and the IP holders (including the music artists as well as franchise owners).

Thing is, the value of media and IP and therefore the sum value of its licensability is unpredictable. We all know how Sony bought the movie rights to Spider-Man from Marvel when Spider-Man wasn't a particularly valuable IP and we know how that turned out, despite some naff films. IP can fade in (and out) so long-term contracts are not always desirable.

I know from X360 titles that most of them that get pulled from the online store are because the rights of that publisher expired. However I'm still able to download the game if I bought it previously.

That's now, for a while there has been strong pressure from IP owners to reclassify digital distribution platforms from being effectively retailers to being publishers and it's a fine line - sometimes they are both. This is the same lobby group responsible for dumb arse DRM schemes and anti-piracy legislation so I wouldn't bet on your (or my) digital ownership, or Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Steam's right to allow you to download something you already paid for being a permanent fixture.

Once you give up on that plastic disc, your ability to put that data into a device is very much dependant on other people and the stupid legislative structure we are at the mercy of.