Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[Inuhanyou]

Didnt cerny say almost 4k titles will be running on ps5? Why the apparent confusion when we should be operating from that conclusion? Eurogamer misreporting Sonys message to devs i get, but we already have confirmations to expect at minimum rudimentary bc with most titles. Though its telling neither manufacturer claim 100% compatibility or all at launch. Theres still a process there.

 

[Kaotik]

But I think shiftys post implied ps5 BC might suck and be very limited. That's not the impression I have. I believe it's more like there is 2 flavors of BC and the gimped mode would not be allowed for new games. At least this is my understanding.

One that's already confirmed is that it will be limited initially (meaning not all PS4 games will even work at launch)

Didnt cerny say almost 4k titles will be running on ps5? Why the apparent confusion when we should be operating from that conclusion? Eurogamer misreporting Sonys message to devs i get, but we already have confirmations to expect at minimum rudimentary bc with most titles. Though its telling neither manufacturer claim 100% compatibility or all at launch. Theres still a process there.

I'm not 110% sure, but somewhere I picked up the impression that MS has already guaranteed XSX full support for XB1 titles on launch in addition to full support for all the Xbox/360 titles currently supported by XB1

 

[HBRU]

If virtualization is the way they went for BC a 10 TF maschine can run a 1.8 TF maschine (also very similar in structure it's not a ps3) without problems... maybe not so easy to emulate a 4.2 TF one as ps4pro, also maybe better pushing developers to upgrade the titles to PS5 directly with little effort (and some little cash coming)... so just for the PS4pro BC part -maybe- Sony gives the not perfect BC advice we are discussing about.

 

[Inuhanyou]

One that's already confirmed is that it will be limited initially (meaning not all PS4 games will even work at launch)


I'm not 110% sure, but somewhere I picked up the impression that MS has already guaranteed XSX full support for XB1 titles on launch in addition to full support for all the Xbox/360 titles currently supported by XB1

They have said thousands will be availible at launch not all..and that they are currently testing compatibility which is different from 'it just works' mentality

 

[London Geezer]

Ok I’ve read this whole thread and the articles and for the life of me I don’t understand this latest thing.

If all (or most?) PS4 games work on PS5 anyway, as we’ve been expecting, then why would they need to be re-certified and ‘made compatible’? Unless it’s to add features, which would be nice.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Ok I’ve read this whole thread and the articles and for the life of me I don’t understand this latest thing.

If all (or most?) PS4 games work on PS5 anyway, as we’ve been expecting, then why would they need to be re-certified and ‘made compatible’? Unless it’s to add features, which would be nice.

They are likely just talking about ps5 being supported like pro as a new sku. They sent out a notice in the same way for pro..the cutoff point where it was mandatory for basic support for pro by such and such a date even though all games technically worked out of the box.

On the contary, if it were as some people are concerned about that sony is only mandating ps4 games literally work on ps5 after july, it wouldent make any sense since as we know the gen is already over by that point. We would have had leaks of documents requiring this for games a long time ago, not a few months before the console is about to launch.

Basically, tlou2 and got will have ps5 upgrades at launch if im reading this correctly since they are apparently not exempt from mandate despite coming before the cutoff.

 

[HBRU]

Ok I’ve read this whole thread and the articles and for the life of me I don’t understand this latest thing.

If all (or most?) PS4 games work on PS5 anyway, as we’ve been expecting, then why would they need to be re-certified and ‘made compatible’? Unless it’s to add features, which would be nice.

I think it's also a gentle way of having an excuse for create a talk and give at the same time some convincing arguments and trade for developers to upgrade the old titles (if possible, if convenient)... if no talk and no upgrade is gonna happen then the PS5 just runs the game into a virtual PS4 inside the PS5...

 

[Clukos]

Ok I’ve read this whole thread and the articles and for the life of me I don’t understand this latest thing.

If all (or most?) PS4 games work on PS5 anyway, as we’ve been expecting, then why would they need to be re-certified and ‘made compatible’? Unless it’s to add features, which would be nice.

I would expect this is needed only for PS4 games that run with the PS5 "native" mode. It doesn't help that Sony hasn't cleared this up yet.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Ok I’ve read this whole thread and the articles and for the life of me I don’t understand this latest thing.

If all (or most?) PS4 games work on PS5 anyway, as we’ve been expecting, then why would they need to be re-certified and ‘made compatible’? Unless it’s to add features, which would be nice.

Because it'll look really bad if a PS4 game releases when the PS5's out, and the latter device can't play it.

I personally expect that most developers will increase their framerate or resolution too, because it'd be churlish not to.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Eurogamer's article is pretty clear over what the PS5 compatibility means.

Further documentation sheds light on what "compatibility" means. A game will be deemed compatible with PlayStation 5 only if its submission code runs without issues on Sony's next-gen machine, and provides the same features on PS5 as it does on PS4.

So, for example, a developer couldn't flag their game as PS5 compatible but not provide support for a certain mode on next-gen hardware.

So the certification program is to make sure the PS4 game runs on the PS5 hardware, with no new features.

They also updated the article to paraphrase what Sony officially said about the PS4 games playing in PS5's backward compatibility mode:

We're expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions.

Higher framerate and/or higher dynamic resolution are just performance factors, they're not getting new features like having instant loadings by making use of hardware-accelerated decompression, or using raytracing, etc. We should expect loading times to be faster because of the much faster CPU and I/O but not instant, just close to a high-end PC.


They also explain through a quote why this certification is mandatory for games launching after July, and it's because Sony themselves are already doing the certification on the older games (probably by order of importance / total sales):

We're currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.
(...)
In his presentation, Mark Cerny provided a snapshot into the Top 100 most-played PS4 titles, demonstrating how well our backward compatibility efforts are going. We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch. We will provide updates on backward compatibility, along with much more PS5 news, in the months ahead. Stay tuned!

 

[Inuhanyou]

In short, nothing to see here then

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They also explain through a quote why this certification is mandatory for games launching after July, and it's because Sony themselves are already doing the certification on the older games (probably by order of importance / total sales):

You bolded the wrong part...

We're currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.
(...)
In his presentation, Mark Cerny provided a snapshot into the Top 100 most-played PS4 titles, demonstrating how well our backward compatibility efforts are going. We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch. We will provide updates on backward compatibility, along with much more PS5 news, in the months ahead. Stay tuned!

Sony are testing lots of titles. those that don't run, they contact the dev to fix them. Going forwards, devs have to fix PS5 compatiibiity to be able to release new PS4 games. Going backwards, games that aren't compatible and don't get fixed won't run on PS5.

 

[disco_]

In short, nothing to see here then

People are showing plenty.

 

[BRiT]

Moved latest posts on BC / FC to it's own thread for broader discussion since it applies to more than a single platform: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...wards-and-forwards-compatibility-spawn.61777/

 

[Pete]

I'm sure it's been mentioned before (just as I'm sure we're repeating ourselves in the will they-won't they BC discussion), but I must have glossed over the fact that Sony's original PS5 PlayStation Blog post following Cerny's presentation explicitly mentioned boosted frequencies on PS5 for PS4 titles. I'm dialing my skepticism back a bit. If a title can run in PS4 Pro boost mode, then even higher clocks should be fine. I'm okay with flat 30/60fps graphs and maxed dynamic resolutions as a baseline, even though I still doubt we'll see many 30->60fps and HD->4k patches given how many full-price remasters we've seen this gen. Now I'm more interested in how this would affect PSVR titles, and if Digital Foundry could snoop the headset output to measure that. Imagine if GT Sport enabled a full VR mode!

A quick update on backward compatibility – With all of the amazing games in PS4’s catalog, we’ve devoted significant efforts to enable our fans to play their favorites on PS5. We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.

We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions. We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.

In his presentation, Mark Cerny provided a snapshot into the Top 100 most-played PS4 titles, demonstrating how well our backward compatibility efforts are going. We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch. We will provide updates on backward compatibility, along with much more PS5 news, in the months ahead. Stay tuned!

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Didnt cerny say almost 4k titles will be running on ps5? Why the apparent confusion when we should be operating from that conclusion? Eurogamer misreporting Sonys message to devs i get, but we already have confirmations to expect at minimum rudimentary bc with most titles. Though its telling neither manufacturer claim 100% compatibility or all at launch. Theres still a process there.

Maybe there is a process, I've not bee keeping up with this issue but also have not read anything to suggest there is an active project similar to a Microsoft team actively enabling 360 titles to work on Xbox One. But unless Sony have tested all PlayStation 4 games on PS5, and continue to re-test every game that gets any update, they cannot claim 100% compatibility. And remember this is not just about seeing if the game boots into the title menu, you'd need to test the whole damn game. Maybe there are shaders that are only used on level 47 - you need to test that. It may well be 100% but claiming something you've not tested would be foolish and testing every game works fine doesn't seem like a good use of time.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm sure it's been mentioned before (just as I'm sure we're repeating ourselves in the will they-won't they BC discussion), but I must have glossed over the fact that Sony's original PS5 PlayStation Blog post following Cerny's presentation explicitly mentioned boosted frequencies on PS5 for PS4 titles. I'm dialing my skepticism back a bit. If a title can run in PS4 Pro boost mode, then even higher clocks should be fine. I'm okay with flat 30/60fps graphs and maxed dynamic resolutions as a baseline, even though I still doubt we'll see many 30->60fps and HD->4k patches given how many full-price remasters we've seen this gen. Now I'm more interested in how this would affect PSVR titles, and if Digital Foundry could snoop the headset output to measure that. Imagine if GT Sport enabled a full VR mode!

I don't think that's at odds with devs working on titles. We can read this as "of the many games that run BC on PS5, most will work in boosted mode." That doesn't mean devs don't need to tweak their games to make them run in the first place.

I suppose the meat of this conversation is one that requires a dev working on enabling BC to feed back - just how much work is actually needed on a title that fails compatibility? Without that, we can only identify possible scenarios about how PS5 will deal with BC.

 

[orangpelupa]

I'm sure it's been mentioned before (just as I'm sure we're repeating ourselves in the will they-won't they BC discussion), but I must have glossed over the fact that Sony's original PS5 PlayStation Blog post following Cerny's presentation explicitly mentioned boosted frequencies on PS5 for PS4 titles. I'm dialing my skepticism back a bit. If a title can run in PS4 Pro boost mode, then even higher clocks should be fine. I'm okay with flat 30/60fps graphs and maxed dynamic resolutions as a baseline, even though I still doubt we'll see many 30->60fps and HD->4k patches given how many full-price remasters we've seen this gen. Now I'm more interested in how this would affect PSVR titles, and if Digital Foundry could snoop the headset output to measure that. Imagine if GT Sport enabled a full VR mode!

Full vr mode for gt sports will need a patch from dev, and that would be a pretty awesome patch

Anyway, IIRC psvr output can be captured just fine with capture card. Or I misremembered it and got it mixed up with psvr accepting generic hdmi signal....

As for PS5 boosting even more than PS4 pro, this could make games with dynamic 4k stays locked in 4k or whatever their hard-coded max res is.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The Cherno dropped his Road to PS5 breakdown Part 2 on Saturday and today Part 3.

And in case you missed it, part 1.

 

[London Geezer]

I like his videos a lot. And he explains things very easily for us mere mortals who don't think in 0s and 1s.