Current Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Mitchings]

While mandating 60fps or higher resolutions would be unreasonable there are some basics that I think should be mandated to maintain some standards of quality for a console platform such as Xbox or PlayStation. Both for the image of that platform and for the quality of experience for the end user.

First would be, if your intention is to release a game with an unlocked framerate that sits between 30-60 consistently, then a 30fps framerate cap option must be made available to the player.

Second, during validation for the platform the game is play tested with a general play through, profiled and if 30fps is the target it must be maintained X amount of time and multiple drops below a certain threshold (say 27fps) should constitute a fail.

Clear recommendations and incentives need to be laid out by platform holders to maintain even frame-pacing and minimal tearing too.

Frankly, if a game can't hit 30fps consistently with minimal drops and even frame pacing at this point in time then it's a broken product and adjustments need to be made. I think the platform holders will also do well to make resources available when absolutely necessary to maintain these standards.

 

[Picao84]

How about an updated version of Decima Engine. Density map was discussed at about 24:25.

Yeah I remember seeing that, but it's asset placement, not asset creation, which would probably be engine independent anyway(?), as assets can probably be re-used or ported up to different engines.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Nice idea, but consoles have had any sort of experience QA in at least a decade. I think the last we heard of TRCs enforcing a standard was 720p with a minimum 2x (or was it 4x?) MSAA for 360 games. These days, the console companies are content to allow buggy shite with no regard for reputation. I guess the hardware and experience is separate for consumers over the software companies, so gamers will blame the publishers.

Is that true of Nintendo and what they allow/reject from 3rd parties?

 

[London Geezer]

It pushed the same amount of pixels/second (1080p vs 720p).

Of course. My point was, as I wrote in my post, that 30fps is a conscious decision. And either way it would have been nice for a whole studio to look at this as an option, considering one guy managed to get this running on a base PS4. Then again From never even bothered with a Pro patch for one of the most highly rated and loved games on PS4, which I find puzzling.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Of course. My point was, as I wrote in my post, that 30fps is a conscious decision. And either way it would have been nice for a whole studio to look at this as an option, considering one guy managed to get this running on a base PS4. Then again From never even bothered with a Pro patch for one of the most highly rated and loved games on PS4, which I find puzzling.

If it's already beloved, would more people buy it if it was patched? Probably who everyone who was ever going to get the game already did, so there's no business sense in spending on a patch.

 

[Karamazov]

maybe they could introduce a mod approval system, modders would be allowed to submit games mod, and if validated, being available on the PSstore.

 

[BRiT]

If it's already beloved, would more people buy it if it was patched? Probably who everyone who was ever going to get the game already did, so there's no business sense in spending on a patch.

And what other enchantments would they have left to tease on a potential PS5 Patch?

 

[London Geezer]

If it's already beloved, would more people buy it if it was patched? Probably who everyone who was ever going to get the game already did, so there's no business sense in spending on a patch.

If that was the standard then no Pro patches would have been released at all retroactively *shrug*

 

[megre]

Yeah I remember seeing that, but it's asset placement, not asset creation, which would probably be engine independent anyway(?), as assets can probably be re-used or ported up to different engines.

I see. How about Quixel? or Atomview that Sony bought?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Some devs will do it because they want to (Sony 1st parties will be expected to), but there's no particular reason to AFAICS. Especially if your title is already selling well - if it's not, a really good Pro version might get some Pro buyers to see their machine actually stretch its legs.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

It may have just been politics: Sony expecting From Software to spend the resources on a patch, From Software expecting the same of Sony. Neither backed down, so it never happened.

Just speculation based on the human tendency to be pathetic and prideful.

 

[eastmen]

PC hardware is a weird thing to talk about. If there is a game that comes out that is popular enough then people will go out and buy new gear to play it.

I remember a lot of friends pushing their parents to upgrade to play Ultima online and then everquest. It was the same with wow , people went out and bought new laptops to be able to play it.

So yea there is a portion of users out there with older machines that can't run the latest games , but all it takes is a big game to push people to upgrade. It also doesn't seem like pc developers care if people get left behind. In 2020 the amount of people that might get left behind because they have an older video card is really just a rounding error when you compare it to the install base of the xbox one / ps4 and switch.

If someone is going to take the time to put their game on the switch then it will run on xo/ps4 and on the older video cards.

 

[HBRU]

As long as theses games are planed on ps4/xbox generation too, we won't see what new consoles can do except higher res. That' why I can't wait too see the first ps5 exclusive, with only ssd in mind.

Higher frame rate comes before higher res...
This hope applies to also many old gen titles....

 

[Inuhanyou]

Higher frame rate comes before higher res...
This hope applies to also many old gen titles....

Not gonna happen as long as there are people talking about wanting new types of gameplay andor visual fidelity.

We will get marginally beyond the best of this gens games pushing these consoles to 4k60. To push beyond that, fps and res will be sacrificed as usual. PCs still exist for this purpose

 

[Deleted member 13524]

4K60 is such a shallow goal by itself..

I know publishers, devs and console makers need a marketing buzzword that rings the ear and will get people to equate it to "next gen", like HD was during the PS360 times.

But then the average joe gamer or average game journalist will start asking about 4K60 in interviews and AMAs. Later on, games that have it or not might be considered bad and good based on that alone.
Eventually, this will hurt some next-gen game visuals because devs will be pressured to hit those 4K60 in games where it doesn't make sense.


Heck, it doesn't seem like rendering at the full 3840*2160 pixels over 1440-1800p + reconstruction even makes sense in anything but giant 100" projection panels, and I bet 99.9% of the gamers will be playing with 75" or less TVs.
Devs really just wanting to hit 4K60 will get at best the image quality equivalent of PS4 1080p30 games. Which is such a shame.



That said, I really hope Sony doesn't make such a marketing big thing out of the 4K60 buzzword like Microsoft has been doing with the SeriesX. I think that's a really bad move.

 

[PSman1700]

I really hope Sony doesn't make such a marketing big thing out of the 4K60 buzzword

https://www.techspot.com/news/80390-playstation-boss-confirms-ps5-feature-120hz-4k-support.html

Not 4k60, but 4k120 Think it all depends on each game what to achieve. Quantum error is supposedly going for 4k60, and it's designed with the PS5 in mind, then being downported to PS4. I don't think there will be too much sacrifices vs going with 30fps. The 4k60 could be 4k reconstructed perhaps, as the Pro/X are '4k'. But aiming for that 60fps everyone wants.

 

[Inuhanyou]

https://www.techspot.com/news/80390-playstation-boss-confirms-ps5-feature-120hz-4k-support.html

Not 4k60, but 4k120 Think it all depends on each game what to achieve. Quantum error is supposedly going for 4k60, and it's designed with the PS5 in mind, then being downported to PS4. I don't think there will be too much sacrifices vs going with 30fps. The 4k60 could be 4k reconstructed perhaps, as the Pro/X are '4k'. But aiming for that 60fps everyone wants.

That link is referencing cernys first wired interview where he talks about ps5 supporting 8k output and 120hz with hdmi 2.1 standard. There is nowhere sony claims ps5 will have standards like 8k or 120fps. Or even 4k60.

Media that doesnt know anything about tech has parroted these types of things though, because of course you cant expect anything more

 

[PSman1700]

There is nowhere sony claims ps5 will have standards like 8k or 120fps. Or even 4k60.

Yet, we have quantum leap being in 4k60. I personally don't think all games will be atleast 4k60 anyway (neither for sony or ms). But we probably will see more 60fps games then we do today on consoles.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

That said, I really hope Sony doesn't make such a marketing big thing out of the 4K60 buzzword like Microsoft has been doing with the SeriesX. I think that's a really bad move.

Yeah, I think this has huge potential to backfire. Naughty Dog merely mentioned they were "targeting" 60fps for Uncharted 4 then folks were disappointed when that didn't happen. Later on, people rarely mention the nuanced caveat, they just remember 4K, 60fps, 120fps.

That link is referencing cernys first wired interview where he talks about ps5 supporting 8k output and 120hz with hdmi 2.1 standard. There is nowhere sony claims ps5 will have standards like 8k or 120fps. Or even 4k60.

In the April 2019 Wired interview Cerny does mention PS5 will support 8K output but he does not mention framerates, 120hz or even HDMI.

 

[Jay]

I don't believe MS has said native 4K.
Even if they have its up to the studios.
As long as the framebuffer is 4k that pretty much will get a 4k stamp now (by both companies). Doesn't even need to have 4k framebuffer going by this gen, anything above 1080p seems to be 4k.

Their push 60fps (+) not because games can't be 30 but because they believe they've built an overall better system to achieve it. Also many studios are starting to seem to be aiming for it.

Edit : didn't realize was PS5 thread. Think this will apply to both anyway