General Next Generation Rumors and Discussions [Post GDC 2020]

[Deleted member 11852]

And just to be clear. I'm not saying sony is or is not late. I'm saying that without more information it's impossible to know. If june comes and goes with no more ps5 information we can start to say that based on past data sony looks to be late.

If you were expecting Sony to be follow the rough PS4 info release timetable, or anything remotely like that strategy, the first indication Sony would not be repeating that should have been Mark Cerny's April 2019 Wired interview. If anything was still in any doubt, the second indication would have been Mark Cerny's October 2019 Wired interview.

Sony were never going repeat the PS4 reveal plan or timetable, that was evident by two Wired interviews in 2019.

 

[Xbat]

I also have no doubt that covid is causing massive headaches for the marketing department and obviously every other department.

 

[Strange]

If you were expecting Sony to be follow the rough PS4 info release timetable, or anything remotely like that strategy, the first indication Sony would not be repeating that should have been Mark Cerny's April 2019 Wired interview. If anything was still in any doubt, the second indication would have been Mark Cerny's October 2019 Wired interview.

Sony were never going repeat the PS4 reveal plan or timetable, that was evident by two Wired interviews in 2019.

"You don't run the same gag twice - you run the next gag," Basher, Ocean's Thirteen.

 

[TS_JBG]

Sony's numbers seem to be their raw max and their theoretical compressed max.

MS's numbers are more complicated and we have to make a lot assumptions here.

2.4GB/s appears to be the guaranteed minimum performance. 4.8GB/s is just the usual 2x compressed number.
We don't know if the XSX has a PCIe 3.0 or 4.0 NVME connection and it might be limited by their TDP/temperature budget. Available SSDs with pcie 3.0 are faster than 2.4GB/s.

So the 2.4 number might just be the speed MS wants game developer to design their games for because MS thinks it's good enough in their SW/HW design or because it's practical with xCloud in mind. On xCloud several 720p instances would share the same SSD bandwidth.

So in reality we don't know yet if MS throttles their SSD for consoles at 2.4GB or if they allow the max. speed which might change depending on what kind of NVME they use or allow externally (over time).

It was confirmed by the Digital Foundry article that they use a PCI-E 4 if i'm not mistaken.

About that "guaranteed" throughput it might have been the same FUD strategy as the "fixed clock" announce, thus leading us speculating aimlessly.

 

[Nisaaru]

It was confirmed by the Digital Foundry article that they use a PCI-E 4 if i'm not mistaken.

If they did I must have missed it.

About that "guaranteed" throughput it might have been the same FUD strategy as the "fixed clock" announce, thus leading us speculating aimlessly.

That high speed SSDs are throttling under heat and can slow down due trimming is hardly FUD.

 

[TS_JBG]

If they did I must have missed it.



That high speed SSDs are throttling under heat and can slow down due trimming is hardly FUD.

PCI Express 4.0 connections hook up both internal and optional external SSDs directly to the processor.
Legending one of the pictures in the orginal article : https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs

That's certainly no lies that the SSD's available in the PC market have very variable rates and excessive throttling for a lot of them, but in the console world it's fixed spec "guaranteed", except when you specifically mention variable clock rate as in the PS5 presentation. that's why both "guaranteed throughput" and "fixed clockrate" makes little sense per se in a presentation.

But it's anyone's guess until new elements are brought to the table anyway.

 

[iroboto]

That's certainly no lies that the SSD's available in the PC market have very variable rates and excessive throttling for a lot of them, but in the console world it's fixed spec "guaranteed", except when you specifically mention variable clock rate as in the PS5 presentation. that's why both "guaranteed throughput" and "fixed clockrate" makes little sense per se in a presentation.

MS reveal and marketing on their specs here:
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/

MS did not write fixed clocks or guaranteed bandwidth. Unless you can find another source that pre-dates DF and MS mentions these then DF presented that information and they didn’t have to.

Im not sure why you would call fixed and guaranteed bandwidth FUD started by MS. It’s the norm and not the exception. And they didn’t write it as far as I can see. Sure they said it; buts it’s not an output that they actively market.

 

[TS_JBG]

MS reveal and marketing on their specs here:
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/

MS did not write fixed clocks or guaranteed bandwidth. Unless you can find another source that pre-dates DF and MS mentions these then DF presented that information and they didn’t have to.

Im not sure why you would call fixed and guaranteed bandwidth FUD started by MS. It’s the norm and not the exception. And they didn’t write it as far as I can see. Sure they said it; buts it’s not an output that they actively market.

They did remove it fairly recently, including in the digital foundry article.
But maybe you're implying there was a collective hallucination ?

That's precisely because it's the norm it wan't necessary to be mentionned and meant for "FUD" in a commercial term. (That's just commercial strategy, i'm not implying negativity on that) but it did lead us speculating on the specific meaning on those term, regarding the SSD particularly. (oh, Uncertainy and Doubt... Ffffff ;-))

 

[iroboto]

They did remove it fairly recently, including in the digital foundry article.
But maybe you're implying there was a collective hallucination ?

That's precisely because it's the norm it wan't necessary to be mentionned and meant for "FUD" in a commercial term. (That's just commercial strategy, i'm not implying negativity on that) but it did lead us speculating on the specific meaning on those term, regarding the SSD particularly. (oh, Uncertainy and Doubt... Ffffff ;-))

It’s still in the DF article. Maybe it’s been edited (shit I don’t recall)
edit: I used wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/2020031...xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/

No mention of fixed clocks in MS official spec reveal.

No change in this DF article either: https://web.archive.org/web/2020031...lfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs

I dunno. Maybe collective hallucination. I went through a lot of articles and only DF is the only one to mention fixed clocks if any nature. They may have a couple things on youtube that showed fixed clocks. But in the articles and marketing materials, this isn't something that MS presents in any official marketing capacity that I can see.

anyway fixed clocks was more likely to combat the precision boost 2 of zen 2.
They wanted to show how far they got their base clock. Which is pretty high for 8 cores on a console. Going to borrow Anandtechs graph for the 6 core Zen 2. So once core load and heat goes up it’ll drop to 3.8Ghz. 3.6 GHz on XSX for all loads. And I don’t think that’s anything MS was doing to punk Sony here.

 

[PSman1700]

anyway fixed clocks was more likely to combat the precision boost 2 of zen 2.
They wanted to show how far they got their base clock. Which is pretty high for 8 cores on a console. Going to borrow Anandtechs graph for the 6 core Zen 2. So once core load and heat goes up it’ll drop to 3.8Ghz. 3.6 GHz on XSX for all loads. And I don’t think that’s anything MS was doing to punk Sony here.

Very impressive indeed, up to 3.8ghz in a console on x86 hardware. Xenon/cell where rather high clocked for their time, but they wherent standard x86 cpu hardware. Didn't expect 3.6ghz on all cores as a baseclock at all times before the reveal, as a pc gamer i say it's impressive. As a console user you get +12TFs of GPU (not so far from a 2080/2080TI), a CPU clocked at a 3.6 baseclock with SMT, and up to 3.8ghz on all 8 cores without, a pcie4.0 nvme drive with custom arch build around it with decompressor blocks and hardware 3d audio block with mentions of ray traced audio. With the dual-board cooling in that apple-like case, it's going to be silent like the one x aswell. I also like the idea of PS2 sized memory cards as expandable storage. PC gaming is nice and all but that's a steal if it's 500 dollars, or even lower.
There's supposedly also tech in there to reduce lag between controller and console/TV, one current pc gamers complaints. Sampler feedback/VRS and possibly deep learning hw could improve performance and thereby framerates. MS just needs to make KB/M standard, even for MP games, perhaps with different lobbys to avoid unfair gameplay. I could see it happening with the KB/M.
There's only one thing that's never going to happen, some sort of W10 on that thing That would be a dream.

 

[TS_JBG]

It’s still in the DF article. Maybe it’s been edited (shit I don’t recall)
edit: I used wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/2020031...xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/

No mention of fixed clocks in MS official spec reveal.

No change in this DF article either: https://web.archive.org/web/2020031...lfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs

I dunno. Maybe collective hallucination. I went through a lot of articles and only DF is the only one to mention fixed clocks if any nature. They may have a couple things on youtube that showed fixed clocks. But in the articles and marketing materials, this isn't something that MS presents in any official marketing capacity that I can see.

anyway fixed clocks was more likely to combat the precision boost 2 of zen 2.
They wanted to show how far they got their base clock. Which is pretty high for 8 cores on a console. Going to borrow Anandtechs graph for the 6 core Zen 2. So once core load and heat goes up it’ll drop to 3.8Ghz. 3.6 GHz on XSX for all loads. And I don’t think that’s anything MS was doing to punk Sony here.

Locked clockspeed does appear pretty much everywhere on the internet, emphasized by MS to quote Digital foundry.
Anyway might be wrong or not, doesn't change what my main interrogation point regarding SSD sustained throughput in real life for both was.

I do agree the clockspeed on the CPU was higher than anticipated, and it's a great thing for both.

 

[AzBat]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1253340150198747142

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1253384354631421952

Tommy McClain

 

[Devious]

That second tweet might just be about the owl and not games. Hopefully it's both!

 

[chris1515]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/g7kiql

Someone did a fancy render using Sony patent

 

[Karamazov]

isn't that what allowed terraforming Mars in Total recall ?

 

[cheapchips]

isn't that what allowed terraforming Mars in Total recall ?

Two weeks until the next PS5 event confirmed!

 

[BRiT]

We're not saying what you linked or posted is Source Bias or Console War material, but it will definitely devolve into it. So anything that will lead to arguing about Console Wars or Source Bias hasn't been welcome here. It doesn't lead to constructive discussions.

We've seen this played out in the other thread recently and it wasn't pretty. People will begin digging up old statements that turned out wrong or bring in quotes from others saying the opposite and then that will devolve into sour grapes and having axes to grind or they'll say they trust random youtubers over them etc. It's just best to leave out anything that contrasts the two systems at this point in time.

 

[MrFox]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/g7kiql

Someone did a fancy render using Sony patent

It's a nuclear reactor, the tubes are where you lower the control rods. It's going to be a danderous teardown.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm undecided if that design is ingenious or insane.

 

[MrFox]

I'm undecided if that design is ingenious or insane.

The patent figures are only made to illustrate a concept. Each figure illustrates a different embodiment, and here it was combining all of them as if it was to scale or something. I don't think the artist read the patent. It's not supposed to be taken as a schematic or anything to scale.