Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Xbat]

What would be the competitive advantage in that? Series X is also betting on the same feature

I wasn't stating there was a competitive advantage.
If it's 8TFlops vs 12TFlops of the series x there will be a price difference or some other hardware difference.

Can't really talk about the differences until we have all the details such as price and what not.

 

[Betanumerical]

It will depend if one of the two is "bad enough" to make people experience it as a significant inconvenience compared to the other option.
We expect significant improvements from the MS side of things as well

Totally, both will be exceptional steps above what we have now.

 

[ultragpu]

In the powerpoint slides they pimped the SSD, 3d Audio, UHD etc but nothing about the kind of leap in power it offers over current gen which kinda tells me it's either very moderate or not on par with the competition. I know this is just CES not a full reveal but the kind of vibe you're getting from them is rather low key, it's just devoid of hype for early core adopters. Honestly almost all the features on that slide bar Hardware Raytracing which they even conveniently skipped, don't sound exciting at all. Traditionally gamers are more excited about the generational leap multiplier, big numbers, not trivial improvements such as harddrive loading speed, audio, disc format, could they not simply throw in something power related at all? A 3x PS4 Pro power multiplier would keep the enthusiasts psyched for months to come.

 

[Karamazov]

Or they are Just confident with what they have and keep the info for the PlayStation meeting next month simply.

 

[ultragpu]

They didn't even say it's next month, I would feel a lot better if they gave us a date.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

...could they not simply throw in something power related at all?

I think after all the consoles I've seen come in, I've come to not associate power with betterness. That is, you get things like 'incredible power of the Cell' but it doesn't relate to anything different in the games. Power undirected tends not to make a difference.

So I find SSD and 3D audio far more interesting. I'm actually really hopeful for the 3D audio as that's a game changer where more resolution or better shaders isn't. I've the Sony faux 5.1 headphones and the positional audio in that is pretty good. True 'holophonic' audio as we discussed years ago optimistically would be incredibly immersive and really help set a 3D game space.

The rest of the stuff is focussing on what's better rather than an unqualified 'more power'. You know it'll still play discs and it'll have raytracing. The slides seemed focussed on a more explicit messaging than the past where it was all about specs and promises, meany of which didn't amount to anything in real terms. For those desperate to know what performance is, I can see the disappointment, but I think for general consumers, what Sony has said so far is way more interesting and useful than if they'd just said "super powerful megaprocessing".

 

[PSman1700]

You don't buy a playstation for the power, but for the games they have to offer not available on other platforms.

 

[Karamazov]

Yeah remember the PS3 slide saying 1Tflops...

 

[Nesh]

.... more interesting and useful than if they'd just said "super powerful megaprocessing".

I want my super charged blast processing bundled with a next gen mascot game at a great price.

Dream devastating douche [emoji34]

 

[Nesh]

You don't buy a playstation for the power, but for the games they have to offer not available on other platforms.

I am guilty as charged

 

[borntosoul]

About the name ?
That’s playing it too safe SONY.

Maybe it’s the old sucker punch."...

PS 5 = base version and
PSV = high performance version

come on Sony the 5th PlayStation and this is what you got so far?

 

[ultragpu]

I think after all the consoles I've seen come in, I've come to not associate power with betterness. That is, you get things like 'incredible power of the Cell' but it doesn't relate to anything different in the games. Power undirected tends not to make a difference.

So I find SSD and 3D audio far more interesting. I'm actually really hopeful for the 3D audio as that's a game changer where more resolution or better shaders isn't. I've the Sony faux 5.1 headphones and the positional audio in that is pretty good. True 'holophonic' audio as we discussed years ago optimistically would be incredibly immersive and really help set a 3D game space.

The rest of the stuff is focussing on what's better rather than an unqualified 'more power'. You know it'll still play discs and it'll have raytracing. The slides seemed focussed on a more explicit messaging than the past where it was all about specs and promises, meany of which didn't amount to anything in real terms. For those desperate to know what performance is, I can see the disappointment, but I think for general consumers, what Sony has said so far is way more interesting and useful than if they'd just said "super powerful megaprocessing".

So they're not caring for the core fanbase? They forgot their root .

You don't buy a playstation for the power, but for the games they have to offer not available on other platforms.

Also the two complements each other.

 

[PSman1700]

Also the two complements each other.

No matter how much more power the xsx is going to have, it won't play the next GoW, HZD2, spiderman 2, the new GT, PSVR games, classic remasters, last of us, uncharted.... I also strongly doubt current PS owners are going to shift to xbox just for that 3TF in power difference, forgetting their whole library and friends. Last but not least, i'm sure brand loyalty plays a bigger role then some TF numbers that no-one cares about aside from tech and some gaming forum.

In exclusives we won't see a difference.... because those exclusives can't be compared since their only on playstation. Even then, if it is anything like current gen, Sony 1st party devs probably can get close with their 8/9TF to MS 1st party with their 12TF in graphics. Yes multiplat games are going to have some advantage on the XSX, which is the niche variant if MS launches with two consoles, most will buy the cheaper model.

With Sony/PS, there is zero reason to worry about their hardware, it ain't the reason i'm having had all PS's untill now atleast. Get a decent PC by 2021 and a PS5, you have best of both worlds, PS for exclusives pc for everything else (all MS games land there, in even better then XSX gfx).
Sony's console will most likely not end up being a pc in size and shape either.

 

[ultragpu]

I’m definitely getting a PS5 for the exclusives that’s for sure, just not the base model, will wait for the Pro if it turns out to be 9.2tf. I don’t want my exclusives compromised by any means on the base hardware when the Pro can offer maximum res, raytracing, settings and etc. However if the Base is powerful enough to not compromise the visuals too severely both in exclusives and multiplats then it’s a day one. I’m not forking out thousands on PC, neither do I find it easy to connect to my TV and all that PC issues, not to mention the poor HDR support on that platform.

 

[Silenti]

No matter how much more power the xsx is going to have, it won't play the next GoW, HZD2, spiderman 2, the new GT, PSVR games, classic remasters, last of us, uncharted.... I also strongly doubt current PS owners are going to shift to xbox just for that 3TF in power difference, forgetting their whole library and friends. Last but not least, i'm sure brand loyalty plays a bigger role then some TF numbers that no-one cares about aside from tech and some gaming forum.

I am not sure I would agree with this. Last 2 generations we saw a marked shift in the market. The Xbox went from a near afterthought (OG Xbox) to parity in overall sales and complete domination in the US and UK (X360). MS then lost much of that this generation with the One. They went from rough parity to being outsold more than 2:1. (Rough numbers, good enough for my point.)

In both cases there were some serious gaffs early that took time to recover from. It cost both of them market share. I went from the OG Xbox -> X360 -> PS4 (plenty farther back than this, I am old) and have no qualms about switching again. All those exclusives that get mentioned for Sony? How many grabbed the players who were new to Sony or returned to them after the XBone reveal disaster? Enough that they would not consider switching back?

As mentioned above. I have bounced around. The exclusives Sony offers have not grabbed me at all. I didn't care about Spiderman, GoW, LoU, etc, etc. Forza vs. GT or a 3rd party racer? Don't really care which. I didn't even buy a racer this gen. I just spent a few minutes yesterday going through the GamePass list and was stunned. It looks like half my Steam wishlist and the other half are in my Steam library. If the tech rumors hold true then I may well return to MS this gen. Hell, I may even pre-order a Series X.

I have no way of knowing how typical of a "switcher" I represent. The point remains that many people did switch last gen, and may well do so again. There are millions of users up for grabs on these reveals and early trends. Is a marked power difference offset by price difference just a wash to people? Maybe it is. Assuming no major gaffs this time around, maybe there won't be a mass exodus one way or the other. Then again.....

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So they're not caring for the core fanbase?

Will they stop making first-party games?

Also the two complements each other.

They don't necessarily. They are two different approached to product marketing. Numbers is the old way. Lifestyle is the new way. I can't recall any car advert that mentioned engine power in BHP; they all talk about lifestyle and experience as those are the things that really matter. Joe Driver doesn't start car-shopping with BHP and 0-60 times. Wii never once mentioned specs but just showed happy families playing together. Games are sold on gameplay and features, and not millions-of-polygons per second and framerates and resolutions.

The only reason to mix power number marketing with lifestyle marketing is if you have a power advantage that represents part of your USP, so it works well for Apple who can talk about having the most powerful thing and then showing how that power is used. If you don't have the most powerful (rival is releasing a product at a higher price-band than you) then giving a metric to your product power just makes a comparison that works against you, so why do it? You can instead talk about more power than any PlayStation before to so Stuff, but make it about the Stuff and getting users excited.

I think we're seeing a general maturing of console marketing across the board. It's the same as moving from install base to MAUs and the like. It's all less transparent because transparency doesn't help with the messages that want to be associated with the products and services. Compare adverts for all products from the 1900s to the 1950 to the 2000s - it's completely different where original it was just about the product and now it's about association. Console advertising already does the lifestyle thing, and as part of that. moving the core messaging from day one towards lfiestyle is in keeping with the evolution of product selling. Keep the numbers for those who need to know, the devs.

 

[Nisaaru]

You don't buy a playstation for the power, but for the games they have to offer not available on other platforms.

Sounds like Sony's direct competitor is now Nintendo

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I am not sure I would agree with this. Last 2 generations we saw a marked shift in the market...

A very core piece of that was networkinging. 360 was afar better network experience than PS3, so for online play, it was the better choice, and the cheaper one, and there wasn't BC. Next gen is the first ever where the ecosystems are basically the same with nothing to distinguish except the libraries and incidentals like controllers. So swapping from PS2 to 360 wasn't a big deal because between 360 and PS3, you still lost your PS2 library. And same swapping from 360 to PS4 as you pretty much lost your 360 library and PS4 could game online just as well as XB1. From XB1 to PS5, you lose your MS ecosystem. From PS4 to XBSX, you lose your PS library. And we also will be buying into next gen with an awareness that it'll follow into the next too, so from here on in, if you choose XBSX, you are also fairly committing to XB forever more, and same with PS. Switching platform will be more costly than the past.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

A very core piece of that was networkinging. 360 was afar better network experience than PS3, so for online play, it was the better choice, and the cheaper one, and there wasn't BC. Next gen is the first ever where the ecosystems are basically the same with nothing to distinguish except the libraries and incidentals like controllers. So swapping from PS2 to 360 wasn't a big deal because between 360 and PS3, you still lost your PS2 library. And same swapping from 360 to PS4 as you pretty much lost your 360 library and PS4 could game online just as well as XB1. From XB1 to PS5, you lose your MS ecosystem. From PS4 to XBSX, you lose your PS library. And we also will be buying into next gen with an awareness that it'll follow into the next too, so from here on in, if you choose XBSX, you are also fairly committing to XB forever more, and same with PS. Switching platform will be more costly than the past.

I could also see people leapfrogging console generations if both have BC. You'll always just have 2 consoles (ignoring Nintendo for the moment) but you'll just buy one console per generation.

Alternatively while having BC in theory locks you into a platform, it also makes it easy to come back if you do leave the platform. When you come back, not only will your library still be there, but you'll be able to play any exclusive (after you buy it) that you missed while you were away.

So, the lock-in may not be as much of a deterrent to switching as some of us think. It's certainly going to be an interesting dynamic to look at going forwards if both companies have robust and well supported BC.

IMO, I think the biggest effect that BC will potentially have is making generation switches smoother. Software (game) sales perhaps won't fall off a cliff every time a new generation hits if people know that whatever they buy will run just fine on the "next gen" console. Even more so, if BC is so robust that not only do the titles run, but they run with better graphics IQ on the next gen consoles.

Regards,
SB

 

[Nesh]

But people are probably used to abandoning old games and probably used to moving with their closest friends to another platform to play online