Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]
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AbsoluteBeginner
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I am speculating that the reason insiders are wrong is solely duo to target specs. I would not be surprised if TF/BW numbers have not been given back in 2018, but perhaps performance targets, and I am also sure that there is no need to show your cards 2 years before launch, duo to hardware being essentially supped up PC.
Say, Sony sent target specs of - 4 * CPU performance, 3 * PS4Pro GPU etc. while MS sent the same, but they really were aiming for unorthodox console and 12TF of RDNA instead of perf match of 2 * Scorpio GPU.
If you are Sony, and you know how much you can cram in expected console form factor and TDP limit, you have to assume target of 2 * X GPU would have to be ~9TF of actual RDNA GPU. There is a reason why we have speculated on 8-9TF GPUs ever since Navi 10 was released. It goes well above Pro and even XBX limits.
Even now, people are still unsure if 2 * Scorpio GPU is a performance match or actual TF number, because its really, really high number. Who expected ~250-300W console?
Neither Sony nor MS would be lying in that case, but Sony would give you console that is essentially performing similar to 13TF GCN chip, which is pretty much 3 * PS4Pro GPU, while MS would actually go for PC tower console and well above thermal limits and deliver on 12TF of RDNA. Cant make sense of it other way tbh...
People have been debating that 36CUs with such high clocks are no-go, so how exactly would it make sense to use that configuration for last gen games?
Say, Sony sent target specs of - 4 * CPU performance, 3 * PS4Pro GPU etc. while MS sent the same, but they really were aiming for unorthodox console and 12TF of RDNA instead of perf match of 2 * Scorpio GPU.
If you are Sony, and you know how much you can cram in expected console form factor and TDP limit, you have to assume target of 2 * X GPU would have to be ~9TF of actual RDNA GPU. There is a reason why we have speculated on 8-9TF GPUs ever since Navi 10 was released. It goes well above Pro and even XBX limits.
Even now, people are still unsure if 2 * Scorpio GPU is a performance match or actual TF number, because its really, really high number. Who expected ~250-300W console?
Neither Sony nor MS would be lying in that case, but Sony would give you console that is essentially performing similar to 13TF GCN chip, which is pretty much 3 * PS4Pro GPU, while MS would actually go for PC tower console and well above thermal limits and deliver on 12TF of RDNA. Cant make sense of it other way tbh...
How does running 36CU at 2.0GHz make sense for "last gen boost", but doesn't for regular console?My prediction is they show Tlou II running on PS5's BC Boost mode at 4k/60fps on a HDMI 2.1 A9H Oled and call it a day...
People have been debating that 36CUs with such high clocks are no-go, so how exactly would it make sense to use that configuration for last gen games?
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Maybe they will show their 8TF monster.
It's not really a console anymore, it is also aimed at the hardcore market obviously. Sony just isn't going to do such thing.
Sony do like to pounce on the mistakes of MS (‘this is how you share a PS4 game’). This time round the only negative I’ve seen about the Series X is about the change in form factor. Maybe Sony will show a trailer with the box at the end similar to Series X, but show a regular console form factor to appease those not happy with a tower case. It’ll confirm that it’s got a weaker GPU, very unlikely you could deal with the heat generated by a 12TF GPU in a traditional console sized case, but they could try to spin it into a positive in that ‘at least it’ll fit under your TV!’
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Deleted member 13524
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No context was ever given for the leaks.
We live in the world of super-secrecy in hardware development where information is often highly fragmented among teams.
If this particular team was simply testing all the BC modes, there wouldn't need to be telling the team exactly how many CUs there are in the hardware itself.
Since the team working on BC modes only needs to know that BC uses up to 36CU, there's no reason to tell them exactly how many CU there are in the chip.
Running without issues is well within the definition of effective. If there are issues, then it doesn't produce the desired effet.
Effectiveness is the problem.
Others already answered better than I could ever do. Regardless, the answer is yes.
Rather a superset of the existing architecture, as Neo introduces native FP16, 2xFP16 throughput plus IIRC a bunch of features focused on VR.
But's a superset of the previous architecture with 100% hardware compatibility yes.
1 - GDDR6 dual-32bit PHYs are 50-75% larger than HBM2 ones. Navi 10 is already losing die area to Radeon 7 / Vega 20 there.
2 - ROP count is the same in Navi 10 and Vega 20, so that isn't counting for the scale comparison between one and the other, and neither are the I/Os (both use x16 PCIe 4.0 BTW).
3 - IIRC Vega 10 NCUs were ~4mm^2. I never saw the area for the same CUs in the 7nm Vega 20 (which wouldn't be a fair comparison because those are 1:2 FP64 throughput capable), but assuming AMD's own 2x density improvements then 2x Vega NCUs @ 7nm are 4mm^2. One WGP is estimated to be 4.5mm^2.
There's no reason to believe the RDNA CUs are "considerably bigger" than 7nm NCUs, unless you have a source stating otherwise.
It's not expected to be small. I expect it to be around 350mm^2.
Desktop RDNA on Navi 10 may drop instructions from previous GCN, but PS5's RDNAx definitely does not.
Otherwise the 9 WGP @ 800MHz and 18 WGP @ 911MHz tests wouldn't make any sense.
Unless you're assuming the github leak might be false.
Sony is also aiming for the hardcore, niche market. I expect it'll be pretty similar to Series X.
https://www.gamesradar.com/ps5-is-a...-the-latest-features-according-to-new-report/
"the next-gen console will "focus on hardcore gamers who obsess over the latest features". In fact, Sony CEO Kenichiro Yoshida went so far as to suggest that it’s a "a niche product aimed at serious players"... " The possibilities offered by such super-charged hardware is why you’ll want to get your hands on a PS5 come release, Yoshida suggests. He says that "dramatically increasing the graphics-rendering speed… clearly demonstrates why it makes sense to have a next-generation console."
In no way is PS going to be a niche product with 100million units going to be sold. Also, this article from july implies again this super-charged hardware, just like with PS4, and we know how 'niche hw' that was. Rather long before the XSX reveal, and for that to work, they will need to launch with two consoles.
But in contrast to that they told their investors that they expect to see the greatest uptake of a new generation ever. It can’t be both, if it’s niche and aimed mainly at hardcore gamers by being super powerful then it’s going to cost an appropriate amount in which case it won’t have a fast uptake.
cheapchips
Veteran
That's just hyping up early adopter types. You can't read anything into it.
The XSX isn't that much bigger than a traditional console by volume. It takes up less volume than the OG XBOX. It's just an unconventional form factor. I'm expecting the XSX cooling to look straight forward. I'm expecting Sony's to look like a drone when you take the lid off.
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They were losing momentum because they were chasing the TV/waggle market too much. They took their eye off the ball and didn't invest in decent exclusives. Conversely Sony wefre producing great exclusives and also had all those 3rd party big hitters.
Like MS this gen? Minimal credit to Sony this gen, it was all MS shooting themselves in the foot. People don't put enough weight into the fact that MS released a whole year ahead of the competitiion - they had the whole market to themselves - and even though PS3 launched as a car crash and into a market that also had the all conquering Wii it still outsold the X360 most months.
Not sure fact is debateable. Launches alogned it sold more - it ended up on the market a year less but sold as many units (if not more). I'm not sure MS could have built a 2.7-3TF machine in 2013 - what is that based on!? But this is part my point, going back to the last few years of X360 MS lost focus and put too much stock into TV/waggle and totally didn't understand the market.
The only reason Sony turned PS3 around is because of brand - I'm afraid outside of the US MS do not hold much weight, They could release this 12TF against Sonys 9TF for the exact same price and Sony will just continue to win, people underestimate brand loyalty.
Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree I don't want to derail this thread any further...I can see why you thought MS had momentum, but it was the wrong momentum...much like a football team winning games but not playing very well, the sales were a lie to what was really going on (IMO of course).
I know, people really are overselling the box size...I can't believe people seem to forget the original XBO - let along the fact it also included an external PSU!
Tkumpathenurpahl
Veteran
There's AMD's presentation thing a little sooner than that, too.
https://lifehacker.com/how-to-watch-sony-samsung-and-amds-ces-2020-keynotes-1840819550
HBRU
Regular
True.
Infact I was even hypotizing Sony could not even abandoning Jaguars [emoji28]
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Deleted member 13524
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The PS5 will be Sony's most important consumer electronics launch of 2020, so it'd make sense for them to show something about Playstation, since they mentioned Playstation products and services a bunch during 2019's presentation and CES has been ganing popularity (unlike E3..). So they won't show anything about the PS5 only if they want to be especially secretive about it.
Regardless, AMD's CES presentation could also show some details about either console. It was during AMD's presentation of CES 2019 that Phil Spencer went up on stage to tease XCloud and SeX.
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Deleted member 13524
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That's not italian, that's croatian.
Regardless, IGN might indeed have more info that the general audience as the press usually gets personal heads-ups from the companies if they're showing something important.
Regardless, IGN might indeed have more info that the general audience as the press usually gets personal heads-ups from the companies if they're showing something important.
XSX team will also there, but not sure will they show up in AMD stage again though, or maybe just go there as audience.
thats what I was referring to
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