Are you disappointed with next-gen consoles for 2020? [XBSX, PS5]

[Deleted member 11852]

Again, all of that exists, there is no revolution in game play. The fact that more developers may or may not make use of it doesn't change that it's already here and has been here for years.

There is no rich game world world which does it all - lots of NPCs, vehicles, richly detailed interiors of buildings, where the fundamental environment can be changed by the player's actions. The reason for this is because many of these things, like fully adaptive AI NPC pathing and combat techniques, along with inherently better physics are computationally expensive and because a rich changeable game world requires a leap in console storage technology so changes to game environment can be saved and re-loaded later and don't disappear when you get 100 yards away or turn a corner because it's flushed our of RAM.

 

[Karmaprof]

Next generation isn’t going to be about power; it’s going to be about ecosystem and services; the types of games you can play.
I think the GPU TF race is just that. A race for better graphics; that won’t translate to better game design. It translates to just more evolution of what we have today. Hitting a critical mass with a cheaper box is going to open up creativity for games more than more realistic graphics would.

Just saying. mine craft is still the most successful game in the world. It’s pretty shitty looking.

I dont buy a Console only for an Ecosystems or Services. A good Service , Online Support etc. must have every Company , this is their Job , its a Standard Service today for us Customer , so its nothing to wait for a new Console. And some of their Ecosystems are consumer unfriendly only made for the Company itself and their own egoistic Profit interests. I will not support a Ecosystem that doesent benefits my wishes and needs as a Customer . So your argument is typical Nintendo Meme, when they are unable to deliver a powerful System, then they change the rethoric and say Gameplay and Sevices are important. But its a trick.

 

[iroboto]

I dont buy a Console only for an Ecosystems or Services. A good Service , Online Support etc. must have every Company , this is their Job , its a Standard Service today for us Customer , so its nothing to wait for a new Console. And some of their Ecosystems are consumer unfriendly only made for the Company itself and their own egoistic Profit interests. I will not support a Ecosystem that doesent benefits my wishes and needs as a Customer . So your argument is typical Nintendo Meme, when they are unable to deliver a powerful System, then they change the rethoric and say Gameplay and Sevices are important. But its a trick.

Well then; I guess it’s a good thing MS opened up their ecosystem to PC. If money is no object you can build the strongest PC ever.
The reality for everyone else is grounded to a specific price range.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Personally, it's a yes and no kind of situation.

In terms of performance, I'm confident I'll be happy. This generation's graphics and IQ are pretty much good enough for me, and improvements like increased NPC density and reduced load times will be welcomed. Hell, give me Horizon Two-ro Dawn, in which sizeable numbers of NPC's, robots, and animals can face off against each other, and I'll be happy to just sit back and watch.

But I've picked "yes" for this thread's question because we're sort of at the end of an era. The era in which consoles were bespoke hardware. That already happened at the start of this generation, but that was understandable, given the projections for the console gaming industry at the time.

Clearly, those projections were wrong. And so, I was hoping for something of a return to bespoke hardware this coming generation. Maybe there'll be something interesting when the consoles are properly revealed, but so far, it just looks like we're getting updated versions of Raven Ridge, with some quantity of GDDR6 on a 256 bit (PS5) or 384 bit (XSX) bus, and an SSD hooked up via PCIE 5. No HBM, no stacked chips, no chiplets, no cup holders. Just a powerful laptop.

 

[Karmaprof]

Personally, it's a yes and no kind of situation.

In terms of performance, I'm confident I'll be happy. This generation's graphics and IQ are pretty much good enough for me, and improvements like increased NPC density and reduced load times will be welcomed. Hell, give me Horizon Two-ro Dawn, in which sizeable numbers of NPC's, robots, and animals can face off against each other, and I'll be happy to just sit back and watch.

But I've picked "yes" for this thread's question because we're sort of at the end of an era. The era in which consoles were bespoke hardware. That already happened at the start of this generation, but that was understandable, given the projections for the console gaming industry at the time.

Clearly, those projections were wrong. And so, I was hoping for something of a return to bespoke hardware this coming generation. Maybe there'll be something interesting when the consoles are properly revealed, but so far, it just looks like we're getting updated versions of Raven Ridge, with some quantity of GDDR6 on a 256 bit (PS5) or 384 bit (XSX) bus, and an SSD hooked up via PCIE 5. No HBM, no stacked chips, no chiplets, no cup holders. Just a powerful laptop.

It is not enough , putting downgraded PC Components into a Soc and going to the Public and saying to the People " Look here this is our new Console" has nothing to do with Innovation. Next Gen Consoles are nothing special, each small Company here in Germany can build such a Console , we dont need Sony or Microsoft for that. Platinum Chief is right , Ps5 and Scarlett are not revolutionary , there are only a half Step. So we see Pro Models again?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Building a box with similar components (for way more money) is not the same as building a console.

 

[vjPiedPiper]

I've skipped a bit in this thread but i see it more like this..

CPU = 8x
GPU = 2-4x
RAM size = 2x ( maybe even less)
RAM BW = 1.5x
HDD Speed = 40X

So overall your seeing around an 11x improvement, when ALL components are considered.
I know it's wacky way of looking at things, but the change from HDD to SSD has enormous potential to change the types of games that are possible on console.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Wii U weak specs were very detrimental to its success. It's in part what contributed to its failure.

I don't know ... Wii and Switch did amazingly well with relatively crappy hardware.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I honestly think the specs, if the rumours are true, are pretty good minus the memory bandwidth. They both seem to be low on bandwidth, especially considering they'll have cpu contention.
Overall though, it's probably the best you can do for the price range people would expect. On top of that, the drive performance will be a massive improvement. It'll be a massive improvement for loading times, and in-game streaming. That in itself can be a huge benefit to streaming engines, and can open up a lot of cool possibilities for dynamic environments.

The xbox design looks very nice, and it sounds like it'll be a very quiet box. Hopefully Sony follows suit and does not repeat the PS4 Pro, which I think is actually a fairly bad product compared to the top-notch vanilla ps4.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the costs of actually producing content for these machines, in terms of creating the world detail you'd want. I honestly think that'll be a bigger barrier than the technical limitations of the hardware. You can already see a big gulf between the most top of the line titles and other AAA games. It's almost like there's AAA and AAAA now. A lot of that is just because production costs are skyrocketing. It's probably easier to make a game pushing for 4k than it is making a 1080p game that's pursuing movie CG visuals.

You're going to get games that look much better and they're going to run on hardware that is still in the range of affordability. That's pretty much what you want from a console launch. The numbers don't matter. It's just a question of whether the visuals look like a big upgrade, and I think they will. You're talking about a 9.2TF base target for a next-gen exclusive vs a 1.2TF base target for current gen.

 

[Xbat]

Same goes for things like big birthdays - 30, 40, 50, 60

Heresy, those are valid reasons to have a massive piss up.

I voted no because we should be getting a fantastic CPU and NVME type drive that potentially will allow a much bigger difference or new possibilities compared to current gen vs last gen.

The Johnathan Blow comment about PS5 intrigued me, could he be referencing Lockhart and how it will potentially hamstring Xbox sex? Or something else?

He seemed to have a knowing giggle after making the statement

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It is not enough , putting downgraded PC Components into a Soc and going to the Public and saying to the People " Look here this is our new Console" has nothing to do with Innovation. Next Gen Consoles are nothing special, each small Company here in Germany can build such a Console , we dont need Sony or Microsoft for that. Platinum Chief is right , Ps5 and Scarlett are not revolutionary , there are only a half Step. So we see Pro Models again?

Blah blah blah snore snore.

All you're doing is complaining, but as you haven't presented a realistic alternative and just some ridiculous wishes, you're coming across as an entitled numpty. Either present a better engineering option for these console companies as to how they could do it better and create better machines without costing the earth that devs will be able to utilise effectively, or leave it at that and stop parroting your one-dimensional rants.

 

[KirkSi]

It is not enough , putting downgraded PC Components into a Soc and going to the Public and saying to the People " Look here this is our new Console" has nothing to do with Innovation. Next Gen Consoles are nothing special, each small Company here in Germany can build such a Console , we dont need Sony or Microsoft for that. Platinum Chief is right , Ps5 and Scarlett are not revolutionary , there are only a half Step. So we see Pro Models again?

Why does a console have to be innovative? It’s supposed to run video games as well as it can. Gaming on PC has now become a norm, that’s where the innovation is with GPUs that cost a small fortune. Why not leverage that hardware as much as you can, allowing Devs to port easier across architecture they’re used to rather than making another ‘cell’ that makes them put a ton of extra work in on each platform?

 

[Sigfried1977]

Next Gen Consoles are nothing special, each small Company here in Germany can build such a Console , we dont need Sony or Microsoft for that.

Because Germany of all places is doing so great in the consumer electronics sector, isn't it?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Because Germany of all places is doing so great in the consumer electronics sector, isn't it?

German engineering has a good reputation.

 

[MrFox]

You said "it", so which one?

Tommy McClain

The one which is 10TF RDNA within +/- 20%.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

German engineering has a good reputation.

How many German consumer electronics companies are there? It's silly to say any German company can produce a console - anyone can produce a console buying US designed CPUs and GPUs on a Taiwanese motherboard to play games. A console needs to be a fully realised platform, including OS and services and games. That's why Ouya and every other new player just fails.

The hardware is fairly immaterial to the job of playing games unless one is beholding to the antiquated romanticism of 'proprietary hardware'. The realities of the console business and pastimes are based in economics and creating affordable experiences. The days of esoteric hardware, the golden age, the likes of the Amiga powering past the typical computers of the time thinks to forwards-thinking, unhindered design and custom hardware, is way, way behind us. All freaky hardware does now is get in the way of the developers creating their games. Cerny identified this and very sanely chose not to do something stupid like split pools of RAM with tiny, super fast RAM. And if we look at the modern gaming landscape, the full glut of indies as well as the AAA megacorps, we see far more variety in actual games than ever before because of the homogenisation of hardware and tools. Devs are wrestling less with getting triangles on screen and more with game design and balance and ideas. Whether console games are pioneering or repetitive is down to the dev and pub choices and not the hardware, but having simple hardware eliminates that barrier and gives more opportunity for devs to try new stuff.

If, hypothetically, there was a magical new tech that'd be vastly superior to the PC designs on offer that if embraced by devs could provide a whole new world of gaming, then yes, it'd be somewhat amiss for the console companies to ignore that tech and give a watered down experience. But there isn't. Karmaprof's desires are for a fantasy, and no company on Earth, not from Germany or anywhere else, can make that happen.

 

[Goodtwin]

I don't know ... Wii and Switch did amazingly well with relatively crappy hardware.

The Tegra X1 was pretty top notch for a mobile processor when Nintnedo spec'ed it for the Switch. Switch operates under the restrictions of a portable device, so I feel calling it crappy is being pretty harsh when there really wasn't anything better at the time. Consoles are deep in development two years prior to release, and in 2015 the Tegra X1 was about as good as it got.

The Wii rehashed the Gamecube processors, and thanks to a die shrink, they were able to increase the clock speeds quite a bit. In 2006, the processing capabilities were very poor for a new console. I am inclined to believe that Nintendo was hopeful with the Wii, but at the same time was minimizing financial risk with their very unproven gaming concept. Nintendo was able to capture lighting in a bottle with the Wii. Gamers and non gamers alike were eager to buy one, and it sold like crazy for 4 years before fizzling out.

Nintendo competes indirectly with Microsoft and Sony. Their products are unique, and the software offering is very unique. This is why 40% of Switch owners also own a Xbox or PS4. Buying both a Playstation and a Xbox can be pretty redundant, but a Switch offers something very different that many Xbox and Playstation gamers will be interested in buying in addition to their primary console.

As for the new consoles, plenty of people were asking the same question about the PS4 and X1 when their rolled out. Was there a big enough jump to warrant the purchase of new hardware. A lot of the software at the time showed modest gains above previous generation hardware, but that didnt stop the PS4 and X1 from taking off quickly. Sony had a brilliant marketing plan, and even if you weren't blown away by the early software, it was still the new kid on the block, and gamer fatigue had long since set in, and early 360/PS3 gamers to eager to buy new hardware.

I feel like the constant increase in resolution standards have made it more difficult create hardware that really blows away the previous consoles. Imagine if fixed pixel displays hadnt taken over, and 720p CRT TV's had become the standard instead. It would be insane to think what developers could do with 9-12TF when only having to render at 720p. Fixed pixel panels have created the need for higher pixel counts because of their inherent drawbacks.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Imagine if fixed pixel displays hadnt taken over, and 720p CRT TV's had become the standard instead. It would be insane to think what developers could do with 9-12TF when only having to render at 720p. Fixed pixel panels have created the need for higher pixel counts because of their inherent drawbacks.

What do you mean by fixed pixel displays? I'm unfamiliar with that term.

 

[Goodtwin]

What do you mean by fixed pixel displays? I'm unfamiliar with that term.

LCD and Plasma are fixed pixel displays.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What do you mean by fixed pixel displays? I'm unfamiliar with that term.

Regular grid digital RGB/OLED panels as opposed to analogue signal-based scanning displays.

It's not really a true notion though. 720p at 50" will either be pixelated or blurred - no display tech can generate more information than provided. CRT just blurs very gracefully.