All their stuff is patented. Until patent law changes; every company will file patents on everything.
Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]
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AbsoluteBeginner
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My point was, if MS knows PS5 has same AMD solution to RT, they will not tout it as much, but in case their implementation is different (like say, VRS) they will.
Saying this because I dont think PS5 is missing hw RT because if it did Ms would make bigger deal out of it
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Deleted member 11852
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Yup but Microsoft don't look to have many patents related to raytracing which is what you would expect. You can't patent APIs (DirectX RT) although the jury is still out on whether you can copyright them, and like PS5 I would expect most of the RT hardware in XSX to fall under AMD's patents.
There are a lot of patents relating to raytracing because the technology has been around since the 1970s.
The 4Gbit density chips appeared in the catalogue in late 2012 IIRC. I might have a post buried somewhere about it.
It was one of those unknowns as the roadmaps weren't very forthcoming about >2Gbit at the time.
Microsoft owns the current standard of RT I think.
Like the RT that Nvidia using right now.
Might be better written as, patented but unsure if implemented.
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Deleted member 11852
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That would follow. But who knows, maybe they'll bundle a massive motion-capture camera with it.
On a more serious note, it think it more likely that Sony would include PSVR/PSVR2 hardware in the main console than Microsoft so that would be an additional cost that Microsoft may skip. I still think VR is cool tech but it's definitely not taken off as well as I thought it would. Sony may decide it's time to move on, or - like the camera which they've never given up on, they may just keep iterating. As long as it's not costing them, and the majority of the R&D is already done, why not.
cheapchips
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These days they just need to include a usb C port that supports Virtualink.
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True, it could be all the other bespoke PSVR hardware could be offloaded on PS5's CPU/GPU. I'd certainly be in interested in PSVR2 is if you a higher resolution display and they bundle in nextgen Move controllers.
They do not own an decades old algorithm just because they make an API for it.
For example NV made a very similar API for Vulkan (and also they had this long before already with Optix).
There are probably no legal issues to expect for anybody else making slightly different RT APIs.
At least i think so, becasue APIs rarely contain patentable innovations.
If some random forum poster says 13TF with nothing to back it up, it is straight out true. If there are test docs released straight from AMD, and DF believes it is PS5, we fight to hell and back to try and disprove it, reason, it isn't what we want it to be.
AbsoluteBeginner
Regular
Just food for thought...
Die sizes :
PS2 - 519mm2 ↓
PS3 - 493mm2 ↓
PS4 - 348mm2 ↓
Pro - 320mm2 ↓
PS5 - ???mm2 ?
Clocks :
PS5 - ???GHz ?
Pro - 911MHz ↑
PS4 - 800MHz ↑
PS3 - 500MHz ↑
PS2 - 147MHz ↑
...as we go further down the manufacturing node, there is clear trend of chip sizes getting smaller and smaller, while frequencies are getting higher and higher.
This is no doubt result of much higher expenses for chip design and higher cost per mm2 of chip.
When people ask themselves why would Sony go for narrower and faster design (beside BC consideration - which are paramount to next gen success and ability to transition PS4 players to PS5) - here is your answer.
Die sizes :
PS2 - 519mm2 ↓
PS3 - 493mm2 ↓
PS4 - 348mm2 ↓
Pro - 320mm2 ↓
PS5 - ???mm2 ?
Clocks :
PS5 - ???GHz ?
Pro - 911MHz ↑
PS4 - 800MHz ↑
PS3 - 500MHz ↑
PS2 - 147MHz ↑
...as we go further down the manufacturing node, there is clear trend of chip sizes getting smaller and smaller, while frequencies are getting higher and higher.
This is no doubt result of much higher expenses for chip design and higher cost per mm2 of chip.
When people ask themselves why would Sony go for narrower and faster design (beside BC consideration - which are paramount to next gen success and ability to transition PS4 players to PS5) - here is your answer.
I consider the camera abandoned. Apart from PSVR and Dreams motion controls, it's not meaningfully (or even slightly!) supported in any title. Like motion controls in the controller, it's a tech with new real use or value to devs. I'd actually be surprised if these weren't pared back for cost-saving measures. They can bundle VR peripherals with a new headset and ensure they're better suited to it, rather than using old ideas as a temporary fix to enable cheap VR.
No-one's arguing against higher clockspeed. It's the sheer given speed, 2GHz, that's a head-scratcher as it's well beyond where this architecture has currently been shown to be power efficient. Either the architecture is changed, or the speed is wrong, or Sony have a hot, power-hungry consoles on their hands.
Guess it's "GNM RT"
I don't think there is so much afford necessary here. But DXR feels too high level and abstract, so they could get some advantage here (e.g. things like launching rays from compute, which is upcoming feature for DXR but should have been initial.)
EDIT: Also the TMU patent would imply to treat RT as a parallel shader like compute or mesh shaders. DXR treats rays single threaded like pixel / vertex shaders, which is mani reason it feels too abstract for me.
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Final clocks could be lower, in the 1.8Ghz range?
AbsoluteBeginner
Regular
Well, I remember another manufacturer making a wrong bet 2-3 years before console was launched that resulted in much bigger mistake then this one would be...
*cough* 8GB of DDR3 *cough*
I remember people saying "Why didn't they just go with GDDR5?" Yea, after the fact I am sure they would have gone with it, not in 2011 when it looked like there will be no chance high enough density GDDR5 will be on market in time of launch.
But yea, IMO we are talking about thin margins. Perhaps Navi was supposed to be ever so slightly better. Maybe frequency sweet spot target was not 1750MHz but 1900MHz, enough to turn entire strategy on its head. We know Navi was late, we know AMD was strapped for cash back in 2017 and 2018, I don't think it would be out of the ordinary if they just slightly missed the target - rendering PS5 hypothetical design "illogical", when it was anything but that few years ago.
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Deleted member 11852
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The camera is used by streamers playing games on PS4. It undoubtably costs way less to make than to sell and Sony revised the camera design during the life of PS4 which does not suggest abandonment. Sony really do love cameras and have offered one for every home PlayStation console since PS2.
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