Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[ultragpu]

Also Jason Schreier didn't seem to be surprised at all by this 12 TF revelation either and remains unchanged PS5 has slightly more TFs, he mentioned MS briefed a bunch of new devs recently on this number which means it's been known to more than just internal devs (most likely major third party too). Maybe Klee's friend works from one of them.

Anyway with specs like XBSX it's easily $499 if not more, not to mention it's part of a two tier approach so Lockhart might have to carry the bulk of sale.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Klee said "game performance" is better in PS5.

If PS5 is 12TFlops or so with better variable rate shading/ RT...then the actual performance would be better.

It could very well still be 10 tflops but have a better RT solution that when RT enabled in games give them better fps. Power VR Wizard anyone?.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Forget about him, this is B3D not resetera.

If you intend to discount possible sources of information because they don't post here, discussion will dry up rather quickly.

Generally, console predictions go along what tech might be in them and it's the challenging of trying to work through the options to nail the final spec before release that makes up the joy insanity of B3D's debate.

FTFY.

Also Jason Schreier didn't seem to be surprised at all by this 12 TF revelation either and remains unchanged PS5 has slightly more TFs, he mentioned MS briefed a bunch of new devs recently on this number which means it's been known to more than just internal devs (most likely major third party too). Maybe Klee's friend works from one of them.

Not PS5 specifically, but his comments in the last podcast did suggest that these seemingly unreachable Tf numbers for both nextgen consoles (excl. Lockhart) were indeed what devs were confirming to him. I've said it before, and I will say it again, I'm not a Kotaku follower/reader but Jason Schreier has had a string of industry insider scoops and has a rare level of credibility for investigative reporting where most industry journalists are just churning PR releases.

 

[AlNom]

There's no need for anyone here to prove their credentials. Every opinion or idea posted is that of a (largely unknown) individual to be taken as you see it.

I'm IncredibAl.

and my sidekick is IncreduLass.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm IncredibAl.

Next year's name change booked.

 

[iroboto]

Duly noted, I apologize if I came off as a bit of dick. I often do get mixed up with this thread and the other one so again let's carry on.

IIRC; history of this board before my time is that the reason we stopped with validating leaks meant people were just hammering the devs on this forum which caused them all to leave.

Sort of what you see on Resetera with people hammering the sources there. It’s bothersome.
And also; frankly; perhaps a commentary on modern society, but we have way too much “give me the answer” and too little on critical thinking for information that is right or wrong.

It’s not a bad thing everyone is unverified. Just frustrating I guess. There are ways to work around it. Assume the data points are true and attempt to break it using other known points is much more effective than trying to deny the point.

 

[manux]

Assuming all hw things being equal other than 10.5 vs. 12 TFlops it doesn't make any observable difference to me. It would be such a small difference that who can even see that in movement? Difference would be visible to pixel counters with marginally higher resolution that just doesn't matter at all.

It will boil down to content and how well things get optimized for each platform. That's where I will be gaming on pc for cross platform/xbox content and sony console for sony exclusives which I like very much. Can't wait for horizon zero dawn sequel, what's up with naughty dog, psvr version 2 and so on. I'm huge fan of VR and microsoft seems to not be in any hurry to bring in vr for their console platform.

 

[iroboto]

Well I mean I was sadly on team 7-8 TF lol. So clearly I was the most wrong. I had envisioned a future where features would be critical given the low power output. But at 12TF performance things change slightly.

At the computational power they are at; 10-15% difference is going to be marginal in performance. the debate seems rather meaningless except to declare a winner.

The real differentiator will be in features that do acceleration or workload reduction imo with respect to graphical fidelity or performance.

keeping an eye on features like mesh shading, VRS, any type of accelerators like RT and ML, having a meaningful discussion around that is going to be next area of interest.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Just frustrating I guess.

You can only get frustrated if you're trying to accomplish something. If you don't set out to try and know the consoles now as opposed to in 6-9 months time, you can't get frustrated. Someone posts a rumoured spec...so what? As far as I'm concerned it's down to the individuals to learn that it really doesn't matter rather than to find a way to get insider info. If it's going to affect one's decision which platform to buy, wait until the specs are out before preordering.

 

[iroboto]

You can only get frustrated if you're trying to accomplish something. If you don't set out to try and know the consoles now as opposed to in 6-9 months time, you can't get frustrated. Someone posts a rumoured spec...so what? As far as I'm concerned it's down to the individuals to learn that it really doesn't matter rather then to find a way to get insider info. If it's going to affect one's decision which platform to buy, wait until the specs are out before preordering.

Agreed. Frustration caused by impatience

 

[Shortbread]

Also Jason Schreier didn't seem to be surprised at all by this 12 TF revelation either and remains unchanged PS5 has slightly more TFs, he mentioned MS briefed a bunch of new devs recently on this number which means it's been known to more than just internal devs (most likely major third party too). Maybe Klee's friend works from one of them.

Anyway with specs like XBSX it's easily $499 if not more, not to mention it's part of a two tier approach so Lockhart might have to carry the bulk of sale.

If that huge fugly PS5 SDK is only capable of 10TF of performance and the consumer XBSX within its small form factor can produce 12TF, then Sony really needs to question their engineering team’s capabilities. Because I would fall out laughing if this is the case.

 

[Proelite]

If that huge fugly PS5 SDK is only capable of 10TF of performance and XBSX within its small form factor can produce 12TF, then Sony really needs to question their engineering team’s capabilities. Because I would fallout laughing if this is the case.

SDKs are always bigger for PS...

 

[Shortbread]

SDKs are always bigger for PS...

Not with all that ventilation it isn't....

And that BS excuse for such ventilation because the dev's stack them is laughable as well. What dev's would have refused to stack them this time around if Sony didn’t come up with a solution?

 

[iroboto]

You'd think so, but here's the patent...

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180047203A1/en

Then of course, AMD has its own. : http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2019/0066371.html

I think it very unlikely either console company will have a significant technological advantage from their own IPs though. Worst case, MS sues Sony for using an AMD tech that MS's patent predates, ask for all PS5 to be stopped and burned and everyone who ever had one to be shot, and then the courts settle on a few millions licensing fees and the lawyers get a new yacht to add to their collection. The most outlandish possibility presenting itself to date is Sony having some different RT solution based on their patents rather than just what AMD cooked up.

We need to mark this post somewhere; it doesn't belong in baseless. I was looking for this post for a while in next gen tech. Was curious to see the differences between the two.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If that huge fugly PS5 SDK is only capable of 10TF of performance and the consumer XBSX within its small form factor can produce 12TF, then Sony really needs to question their engineering team’s capabilities. Because I would fallout laughing if this is the case.

As I understand it, Apple led the way in that regard with the 2013 model of the Mac Pro. The cylindrical arrangement allowed for a cooling vortex, enabling much more effective cooling. MSI copied this in the PC space with the MSI Vortex fitting dual 980m GPUs into a tiny form factor. It appears to be a more effective cooling solution, although I'm curious why it hasn't taken off more-so. Perhaps, in the PC space (and pro Mac users) a dainty box isn't all that important, while for the space conscious, a simpler NUC type PC is a better option?

I think the vortex-like cooling needs to be properly dissected. Can it do more than conventional linear flow? What are the pros and cons?

 

[MrFox]

As I understand it, Apple led the way in that regard with the 2013 model of the Mac Pro. The cylindrical arrangement allowed for a cooling vortex, enabling much more effective cooling. MSI copied this in the PC space with the MSI Vortex fitting dual 980m GPUs into a tiny form factor. It appears to be a more effective cooling solution, although I'm curious why it hasn't taken off more-so. Perhaps, in the PC space (and pro Mac users) a dainty box isn't all that important, while for the space conscious, a simpler NUC type PC is a better option?

I think the vortex-like cooling needs to be properly dissected. Can it do more than conventional linear flow? What are the pros and cons?

I doubt the xbsex have any sort of vortex, just a large straight block like a traditional PC heatsink. Which is the best cost/performance if they have the volume necessary for a 120+ one. (i.e. 6" x 6" with the airflow straight through)

A large vortex configuration doesn't work that well with a single heat source, they would need heat pipes going the whole 360 degrees around the exterior. When there's 3 heat sources, each can take a very small section with very short heat pipes. I think that's what the mac was doing?

 

[AzBat]

debate seems rather meaningless except to declare a winner.

Yeah & that's the problem. If the PS5 starts out more powerful at the start like last gen, then expect SDF to go into Super Saiyan mode. I will loathe spending time here again.

Tommy McClain

 

[ultragpu]

Yeah & that's the problem. If the PS5 starts out more powerful at the start like last gen, then expect SDF to go into Super Saiyan mode. I will loathe spending time here again.

Tommy McClain

You know it’s gonna happen

 

[Proelite]

Not with all that ventilation it isn't....

And that BS excuse for such ventilation because the dev's stack them is laughable as well. What dev's would have refused to stack them this time around if Sony didn’t come up with a solution?

The PS5 SDK looked twice the size of the XSex. That's a big boi.

 

[ultragpu]

Anyway as we loom close to the PS5 reveal here's my prediction.
Best case scenario: 13.2 RDNA TF, 24 GB GDDR6
Worst case scenario: 10.5 RDNA TF, 16 GB GDDR6
I have a feeling 16 GB of GDDR6 might not have enough bandwidth to feed a 13 TF gpu so it has to be balanced especially with that new CPU sharing it.