Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Shifty Geezer]

blue nugroho AKA mistercteam posted this oma on twitter

1) Post explanations to images.

2) You were asked to post your measurements from your previous posit claiming discovery of a very large Scarlett die. Please follow up your contributions either with a retraction if you made a mistake, or the evidence asked for for peer review to support your argument. If you're not going to engage in two-way discussions with appropriate responses, please don't bother posting at all.

 

[HBRU]

blue nugroho AKA mistercteam posted this oma on twitter


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJX8W5uUUAEqGFl.jpg:large

Its interesting but sure needs some explanations....

 

[iroboto]

blue nugroho AKA mistercteam posted this oma on twitter


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJX8W5uUUAEqGFl.jpg:large

There's an interesting phenomenon that happens here on Earth.
quote:
The diameter of the sun is about 108 times that of the diameter of Earth. The average distance between the Earth and the Sun is 108 times the sun's diameter. The average distance from the Earth to the Moon is 238,800 miles, about 108 times the moons diameter.

and this is why during the lunar eclipse the moon is able to cover the Sun fully.

Now; we all know that the moon is no where near the size of the Sun.

So let that explain why that image is a shitty, very much the absolute least scientific way to do size measurements.

If he wants to do measurements like that; he needs to know the size fo the memory chips and their size relative to that SOC.

Secondly; his first picture looks nothing like this.
xbox-project-scarlett-soc.jpg

It's clear the SOC is rectangular in nature.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Beyond that, there isn't even an explanation what the image is of, particularly the blur-o-vision thing on the left.

 

[anexanhume]

blue nugroho AKA mistercteam posted this oma on twitter


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJX8W5uUUAEqGFl.jpg:large

That’s the Scorpio motherboard from the project Scarlett video. In other shots in the video, you can clearly tell it’s a Scorpio board.

 

[bbot]

NOTE: I MADE SOME IMPORTANT CHANGES.

I used the youtube video, in full screen mode.

I had difficulty measuring because of the blurriness of some of the ends. For the gddr6, I chose the one closest to the bottom left corner of the chip, IN TERM OF DISTANCE FROM THE CAMERA
for the gddr6: 38mm
left side of the chip: 80mm
botton of the chip: 75mm

I was able to calculate the size to be 598 sq mm

Later, I remeasured the chip, this time using the black part, because it was less blurry.
left side: 75mm
bottom side: 70mm
calculated size was 524 sq mm

 

[Proelite]

I used the youtube video, in full screen mode.
The measurements I got were:
I had difficulty measuring some the ends because of blurriness. For the gddr6, I chose the one closest to the bottom left corner of the chip
for the gddr6: 38mm
left side of the chip: 80mm
botton of the chip: 75mm

I was able to calculate the size to be 598 sq mm

Later, I remeasured the chip, this time using the black part, because it was less blurry.
left side: 75mm
bottom side: 70mm
calculated size was 524 sq mm

GDDR6 chip dimensions are 12mm x 14mm.
Source:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw2Yifj8PMIirh-_JGJqQ3Hv

 

[dobwal]

Unless AMD made changes to the actual compute side of its arch, why would AMD feel the need to refer to the consoles’ GPUs as RDNA 2?

Making substantial changes to the traditional graphic pipeline to accommodate RT might warrant a new code name (something other than Navi) but if the compute part is relatively unchanged it wouldn’t warrant an RDNA 2 moniker.

 

[anexanhume]

Unless AMD made changes to the actual compute side of its arch, why would AMD feel the need to refer to the consoles’ GPUs as RDNA 2?

Making substantial changes to the traditional graphic pipeline to accommodate RT might warrant a new code name (something other than Navi) but if the compute part is relatively unchanged it wouldn’t warrant an RDNA 2 moniker.

Neither console maker has referenced their console as a numbered iteration of RDNA AFAIK. They have both referenced it as implementing Navi. So if anything, the situation is the exact opposite of your suggestion. The parts maintain the Navi name but get an RDNA revision roll.

 

[Adonisds]

There's an interesting phenomenon that happens here on Earth.
quote:
The diameter of the sun is about 108 times that of the diameter of Earth. The average distance between the Earth and the Sun is 108 times the sun's diameter. The average distance from the Earth to the Moon is 238,800 miles, about 108 times the moons diameter.

and this is why during the lunar eclipse the moon is able to cover the Sun fully.

Now; we all know that the moon is no where near the size of the Sun.

So let that explain why that image is a shitty, very much the absolute least scientific way to do size measurements.

If he wants to do measurements like that; he needs to know the size fo the memory chips and their size relative to that SOC.

Secondly; his first picture looks nothing like this.
xbox-project-scarlett-soc.jpg

It's clear the SOC is rectangular in nature.

That can't be a coincidence!

In fact, a new Half-Life game was confirmed just after you said that.

 

[dobwal]

Neither console maker has referenced their console as a numbered iteration of RDNA AFAIK. They have both referenced it as implementing Navi. So if anything, the situation is the exact opposite of your suggestion. The parts maintain the Navi name but get an RDNA revision roll.

What is “Navi” to console makers? You think their use of Navi is related to the traditional graphic pipeline or RDNA, AMD’s compute arch.

Navi can be seen as simply the first iteration of RDNA so it’s relatively easy and acceptable to conflate the two terms especially outside of AMD. SI, CI, VI, Polaris and Vega are codenames that refer to a particular generation of GCN. Allowing difference gens of RDNA to fall under the same code name makes little to no sense.

Considering that AMD already allows varying gpu archs to fall under one brand name (low tier GPUs for a series being rebranded GPUs from a previous series), AMD doesn’t need to convolute code names for marketing or PR purposes.

 

[anexanhume]

What is “Navi” to console makers? You think their use of Navi is related to the traditional graphic pipeline or RDNA, AMD’s compute arch.

I think Navi is an architecture.

Navi can be seen as simply the first iteration of RDNA so it’s relatively easy and acceptable to conflate the two terms especially outside of AMD.

And it looks like you agree! So that's settled.

SI, CI, VI, Polaris and Vega are codenames that refer to a particular generation of GCN. Allowing difference gens of RDNA to fall under the same code name makes little to no sense.

Considering that AMD already allows varying gpu archs to fall under one brand name (low tier GPUs for a series being rebranded GPUs from a previous series), AMD doesn’t need to convolute code names for marketing or PR purposes.

AMD specifically went out of their way to differentiate RDNA from GCN as architecture vs. ISA. Additionally, console makers have never referenced a specific desktop or professional GPU or CPU in recent generations. The fact that they call out Zen 2 and Navi by name appears to be a nod to enthusiast fans who are paying attention and will appreciate the technical implications.

Similarly, they can't really go out and say they're better than Zen 2 or Navi, or leveraging future features of the product lines those belong in for two reasons. First, I don't think AMD wants to be in the business of letting their partners unveil their technology. Second, it will signal information to their competitors with enough advance for said competitor to react to it.

Sony is on the path of a carefully crafted PR and tease campaign leading up to next generation. They understand the fervor and hype cycles that surround new product launches and want to steer the narrative as best they can. Similar with Microsoft and how they've pounded the "world's most powerful console" messaging with Xbox One X.

 

[Adonisds]

Are the current-gen 8 core jaguar processors like the bulldozers in that 8 "cores" perform like 4 cores because each 2 cores share important resources?

 

[itsmydamnation]

Are the current-gen 8 core jaguar processors like the bulldozers in that 8 "cores" perform like 4 cores because each 2 cores share important resources?

Let me google that for you... Wait I won't. Seriously don't be so lazy..... Must be a dev....

Also cmt isn't really the reason bd was slow, just about every other architecture deision they made was.

 

[chris1515]

https://segmentnext.com/2019/11/21/control-playstation-5/

Remedy talk about the PS5 Part of the OPM article in segment next

“When it comes to the PS5, faster hardware is always appreciated and will make life easier in the short term. But it’s the new SSD that really stands out; essentially streaming will become something that we don’t really have to worry so much about and it will free up some extra CPU bandwidth in the process.”

Like in the patent some of the things made by the main CPU are made by other component is the SSD

speaking about framerate

“You could do things faster or you could add more content and run things the same 30fps as before; often times it is the latter.”

“We tend to forget that it’s not just about getting better graphics in games with a new console, but it’s that the overall experience of using and playing on the console will get significantly better. Playstation 5 is about making a really smooth, quick-to-load experience, and a hardware base that’s easy to use for us developers, which is great, because it allows us to harness the hardware power quicker.”

more things here and they talk about raytracing

https://issuu.com/futurepublishing/docs/plt169.issuu

 

[PSman1700]

Well, that has two sides, hardware progression in terms of GPU/CPU ain't what it has been, so the thing that's going to stand out is the storage since that hasn't progressed in ages.

speaking about framerate

Yeah, i guess were not done with 30fps

 

[chris1515]

Well, that has two sides, hardware progression in terms of GPU/CPU ain't what it has been, so the thing that's going to stand out is the storage since that hasn't progressed in ages.



Yeah, i guess were not done with 30fps

The CPU jump is huge. The GPU one probably less impressive.

 

[Shortbread]

Yeah, i guess were not done with 30fps

Neither is the PC. So...

 

[PSman1700]

The CPU jump is huge.

Because the jaguars where kinda gimped even for their time but yes.

Neither is the PC. So...

What has the pc to do with this? Anyway that would depend on what hardware one has, and what preferences for settings are.

 

[Shortbread]

What has the pc to do with this?

It was a smart-aleck retort that somehow 30fps magically goes away because of next-generation console hardware. Which is obviously false, since the vast majority of PCs (high-end ones as well), still have problems maintaining a solid 30fps in many modern day games, and even some prior generation titles.

And regardless of platform, the vast majority of developers will still choose to push these next-generation platforms towards more visual splendor (eye-candy) than chasing a certain framerate (e.g., 60fps, 120fps, etc.) which would require more hardware resources and developer time on achieving. If anything, developers will be clamoring to use the more beefier next-generation CPUs towards improving AI or additional world simulation assets.