Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Deleted member 13524]

A HD color screen would require much more bandwidth and using Bluetooth (like they'll most probably do) I am not even sure it's possible, well it could be possible, but with more input lag than now and currently the DS4 has the lowest input lag of all known wireless controllers.

The PS5 could generate a dedicated and hidden 5GHz WiFi network to send the video feed.
I'd say it could also use the same 60GHz WiFi ax network it'll need to have for wireless PSVR2, but the controllers would have to use a significantly more efficient modem than the current ones that consume >2W.


As for having the screened controller bundled with the console, it depends on whether it's a large >5" screen or a small <4" one. I could see Sony bundling a DS5 that uses a tiny OLED screen, but a larger device that would be used like a Wii U tablet should go into the premium post-market peripheral category similar to PSVR.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Nothing breaks immersion more than being forced to look away from the screen.

A corner case where you think you might make this an interesting dynamic in a specific game does not justify it.

Again though, to some people, nothing breaks immersion more than a HUD fading into vision when the rest of the image looks like a Hollywood blockbuster. That's not a corner case, not when Uncharted 4, God of War, and Spider-Man have collectively sold ~60 million copies. There are plenty of blockbuster games besides just those, of course, so there are, at least, tens of millions of instances in which Joe Bloggs may want to clear their screen to fully enjoy their blockbuster.

I remember a father singing the praises of the first Mario game for the Wii (was it Galaxy?) in which he controlled Mario as normal, but his son could sit with him and use the wand to collect stars. A proper implementation of the second screen could allow for similar sorts of multiplayer. Rather than putting on your phone voice and hoping the digital assistant understands your request to switch grenade type - and then seething because you've died whilst your console has played a YouTube clip of granola hype - ask the otherwise passive observer friend/acquaintance/loved one to press an icon on the second screen.

Assuming somehow they managed to perfect second screen design;
you've got issues with VR titles, and it's just another device that can break and be replaced and is expensive.

I don't see how there would be issues with VR titles. I'm pretty sure there's a PSVR game that overlays a display onto the DS4's touchpad. I'll try to find it.

Fair enough that it's just something else that can break and need replacing, but that's applicable to so many things that are already in the DS4 (maybe the X1 controller too, but I'm not familiar with it.)

• The mono speaker is "just another device that can break and be replaced and is expensive."
• The 3.5mm output is "just another device that can break and be replaced and is expensive."
• The light bar is "just another device that can break and be replaced and is expensive."

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Nintendo, at the launch of the N64 thought a second analogue stick to be "just another device that can break and be replaced and is expensive."

I'm only bringing forth the business cases as to why it doesn't make economical sense. I have yet to see anyone list business cases as to why it would be worth $500 to $600 million to have it as a pack-in.

The same reason the same sort of expense has been worth it to include the mono speaker, 3.5mm output, touchpad, and light bar.

 

[MrFox]

That's quite a good point. What's generating that screen? I doubt it'd interfere with controller latency as the control data is pretty minimal so could be prioritised with graphics, which only needs send updates if fairly static. Generally though you'd think about a display driver on the device rather than streaming video, adding considerably to the cost.

It wouldn't be HD though as it's tiny. 480p would be plenty high enough quality, maybe even far less. 640x320 would be the size of the DS4's touchpad and that's at 300 dpi. ~ 480x240 seems very reasonable.

They already have a fairly good controller that can do USB, audio, bluetooth, Adding the I/O for this is 5 cents, judging by similar controllers on the market.

Just for context menus the 128x64 pmoled are extremely low power, and low cost. With moderate brightness, such oled it can be driven by a 2032 coin cell for 20 hours.

If it was vga resolution it would be a bit stupid for a 2 inch screen.

I'm thinking the shipping logistic for 25 different controller colors is worth it just for the consumers impression. The crazy profits means a $2 investment is worth it if it increase sales by a small fraction. A small oled screen would also be a positive wow factor.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I'm pretty sure there's a PSVR game that overlays a display onto the DS4's touchpad. I'll try to find it.

AstroBot.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As a different model add-on controller, let the market place decide if it's worth it or not.

As an optional, it'd just go unused in games. Consumers would have no reason to buy the more expensive controller when no games target it, and games wouldn't waste time targeting it when no-one owns one. It e

If it was vga resolution it would be a bit stupid for a 2 inch screen.

Clarity is always good. By account, some languages struggle for readability on low-res displays, leading to Nintendo-like 8-bit chunky text which doesn't fit the PS aesthetic.

 

[Xbat]

I just don't see the point of having a screen in the controller. Rather make it easy for devs to use someone's smartphone or whatever other screen they have. Seems like a much better idea to me.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

I just don't see the point of having a screen in the controller. Rather make it easy for devs to use someone's smartphone or whatever other screen they have. Seems like a much better idea to me.

Ahem

True dat, but it depends on how it's implemented. It's quite user friendly if you can choose between the default of feeding your controller's screen, or the second screen app on your phone/tablet.

Standardise it, integrate it into the hardware and API's, and we'll see greater uptake from developers. I've yet to see anything of merit done with the PlayStation second screen app, and I suspect that's because it takes effort/resources.

The concept of the second screen requires a SquareSpace kind of interface IMO. One in which developers can look at, say, 3 different sized screens - controller, phone, and tablet - drop some icons onto each, tie them to a button/macro, and/or set them to change state when instructed. Minimal developer resources are spent, whilst maximal options are given to users.

 

[milk]

It would be cool if the touch-pad could be slid off of the controller and replaced with a screen. They could call it, dual shock switch.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

As an optional, it'd just go unused in games. Consumers would have no reason to buy the more expensive controller when no games target it, and games wouldn't waste time targeting it when no-one owns one.

Why assume it'd go unused and people wouldn't buy it?
It's not like transferring a HUD from the main screen to the premium controller's screen would mean a massive development effort. There are cases where developers dedicated their time towards post-market peripherals that were ultimately considered a success (Kinect 1, PSVR, driving wheels).

 

[SlmDnk]

Fan fiction or fact? Time will tell.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/dx4v84

Quoted, in the case the post gets removed:

Leak: What is the PS5 memory catridge. Let me give you a few info.

This is a throwaway account. I'm a developer from Europe and we have the dev kit from Sony. (I'm not saying since when because Sony will be able to narrow down which studio.) Let's cut to the chase.

The PS5 memory system is very sophisticated. It has multiple layers but still managed to be development-friendly. Without getting into details on other aspects, the PS5 will have a 128 gigabytes of ultra-fast non-volatile memory. It is ultra-fast not only in terms of raw bandwidth but especially latency and granular access. Whether it is Reram or not, the documents doesn't tell us but we have a feeling that it is a Reram technology. Whether that ultra-fast memory will be paired as a default with an HDD or SSD is still up in the air I believe. What is for certain however is that all games will be loaded on that memory and it is true that loading times will be a thing of the past. That memory will not only be a fast cache that will feed the Ram but it will have direct routes to the CPU, GPU, and main RAM.
The memory will not only act as a Ram extension but will also keep some of your games assets in order to launch games as fast as it can be. The memory will simply dump the cached assets when it needs the space and reinstall them in the background when you exit your game or is not using them. However launching a game will not be as instant and there's only so much you can put on 128gb.

Can you increase that memory so that most of your games will be cached and will have fast start-up? Yes, that's what the memory catridge is for. I'm also hearing that it will be multi-purpose meaning it will also be the hot-swappable memory of choice for Sony cameras and other companies's cameras like Panasonic in the future.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

No idea if this is real or not, but this is more or less what I expect PS5's solid state memory to be - small, fast and directly addressable cache by CPU/GPU supporting a larger storage device like a HDD, but the memory cartridge sounds like nonsense. I can see pros for Sony here - it's something they can sell to people, but it just seems like a half-arsed approach.

 

[BRiT]

there's only so much you can put on 128gb.

I'm pretty sure that limit would be 128 gig.

 

[McHuj]

No idea if this is real or not, but this is more or less what I expect PS5's solid state memory to be - small, fast and directly addressable cache by CPU/GPU supporting a larger storage device like a HDD, but the memory cartridge sounds like nonsense. I can see pros for Sony here - it's something they can sell to people, but it just seems like a half-arsed approach.

I'm a little surprised that Sony didn't try to cash in on additional storage options for PS4 and just allowed standard drives. I think MS had very high margins on the X360 for the drives. If I recall correctly, I spent around ~100 for a 20GB drive (had to buy the tard-pack since those were the only available).

 

[BRiT]

They did, but then even Micrososft allowd you to use any usb 2 drive for game storage and playing as long as it performed well enough on X360. And MS allowed it from the beginning or very early on with Xbox One. So maybe Sony didn't want to be the only one charging through the roof for it with PS4?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm a little surprised that Sony didn't try to cash in on additional storage options for PS4 and just allowed standard drives.

I'm not because that was the same as PS3; easily accessible, user-upgradable standard 2.5" HDDs. and if you bought the PS2 network adaptor, easily accessible, user upgradable standard 3.5" HDDs - even though few titles supported it.

 

[goonergaz]

They did, but then even Micrososft allowd you to use any usb 2 drive for game storage and playing as long as it performed well enough on X360. And MS allowed it from the beginning or very early on with Xbox One. So maybe Sony didn't want to be the only one charging through the roof for it with PS4?

from memory it was very late on with 360 and around a year after launch of XBO

 

[AlphaWolf]

Your memory is bad.

 

[BRiT]

from memory it was very late on with 360 and around a year after launch of XBO

Support for 32GB or smaller was there earlier, but over 32GB externally wasn't until April 2015 when they allowed two 2 TB drives to be used. The largest direct connection drives they offered was 500 GB in 2015, before that common sizes of 120GB, then 250GB and finally 320GB.

https://majornelson.com/2015/04/30/...w-available-adds-support-for-2tb-hard-drives/

 

[AlphaWolf]

Yes and June 2014 added external drive support for xbox one. (Up to 2 drives totalling no more than 16TB)

 

[milk]

To run a whole HD manufaturing, certification and delivery logistic stuff might be such a finatial hassle it still barely pays off even with the fat margins of a proprietary solution. Specially if you account the consumer satisfaction hit of the proprietary solution and the possible missed sales sales of downloadable software thanks to having made storage expansion such a sour deal to consumers.