Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Shifty Geezer]

Cloud computing maybe, but not gaming.

Yeah. Who cares about securing gaming wins if cloud computing and services can earn 10x that?

I don't agree with the idea that Sony needs PS5 to be more successful and MS can just write it off if they fail.
Success is absolutely critical for both. MS is looking for more growth markets to protect their margins (which eventually will fall) on Azure.

Cloud computing and services are huge, growing, and will eventually dominate all computing. Gaming will just be a service running on the Cloud and if MS are taking money from everyone making and operating games, they win.

How can gaming ever be anything more than a drop in the ocean for MS? Whereas it's something like a quarter of Sony's monies. What will MS lose next gen if Xbox Console hardware flops utterly, seeing as they have PC gaming and now streaming to phones? How ruined are MS's current financials given the relative flunk of XB1?

 

[Jay]

Yeah. Who cares about securing gaming wins if cloud computing and services can earn 10x that?

If they felt like that they would exit before next gen starts.
They wouldn't be buying studio's to make content, and investing in hardware.
They would just sell services.

I prefer there to be competition, in hardware and software, so I'm glad their not taking the approach you think would simply make them the most money.
There's some very long term benefits to providing, hardware, software, and services to both consumers and other businesses.

The gaming devision would do a lot better with a successful console, if that's the case then only makes sense they try their best, not oh well it doesn't really matter much.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm not saying there's no value in gaming for MS - profit and diversity are good - but it clearly can't be as important to them as it is to Sony. They have proportionally less to gain from it than their other endeavours. So yeah, they'll do a good job because a half-arsed effort favours no-one. But if there's one of these companies for whom gaming matters more, who may push a little harder as a result, that has to go in Sony's favour.

 

[chris1515]

https://boards.greenhouse.io/sonyinteractiveentertainmentplaystation/jobs/1929657

Sony remove any mention of PS5

 

[BRiT]

So they finally cancelled it...

 

[iroboto]

Cloud computing and services are huge, growing, and will eventually dominate all computing. Gaming will just be a service running on the Cloud and if MS are taking money from everyone making and operating games, they win.

How can gaming ever be anything more than a drop in the ocean for MS? Whereas it's something like a quarter of Sony's monies. What will MS lose next gen if Xbox Console hardware flops utterly, seeing as they have PC gaming and now streaming to phones? How ruined are MS's current financials given the relative flunk of XB1?

I think there will be a time in which this comment will ring true. But it’s not this coming generation. Streaming is not yet cemented as a bigger money maker than their hardware based division.

game pass likely sells more on Xbox than any other platform. Game pass revenue is known recurring monthly revenue which is worth more to the company than boom/bust sales.

any chance to secure more of it for a long period of time is worth a lot to MS. It’s a drop in the bucket today; but the success of it could snowball into the eventual success in PC and mobile space.

we can both see that’s what they want to do; they just aren’t there yet. In the mean time, with their vision and forward looking goals, they need to doubly ensure Scarlet is a success for them. The pain of XBO launch is still fresh in their minds.

 

[Globalisateur]

Because leading by a hair isn't usable information. Its much too accurate in a time of guessing when we're still trying to figure out our precision.

The difference between One and 1S 914 - 853: 61 Mhz which translated a move of 1.31 TF to 1.4 TF or approximately 7% clock speed difference.
If the difference is that small it is likely subject to change by retail. Meaning the lead they hold onto with the devkits is nothing more than leading with a devkit and not useful information for retail. And thus this information (provided by Klee) does not imply an actual lead. (not yet at least)

It's all about the target specs. I don't think MS had navi devkit (so with RDNA Tflops) during this E3 (contrary to Sony). I don't even think Sony devkits have the target specs (because Klee or the others never mentioned the devkits, only target specs AFAIK).

But there is currently a lead for PS5 (virtual if you want) indicated by the target specs given to all developers (that's from the mouth of either current or ex professional journalists or known and reliable leakers). Nobody knows the final specs obviously. Maybe the target specs given by MS were fake because they knew Sony would know them so they undervalued them in order to prevent Sony to counter them. But maybe Sony did the same.

Matt on Era mentioned it's currently like a Poker game between both companies (because both know the others would know the target specs). Anyways based on my own thinkings about all those leaks, I believe Sony target specs are in the 11 tf range and MS are in the 10tf range.

When we were in the pastebin era I read one very short and inconspicuous pastebin with a short mention of specs and 10 < 11 , MS < PS5, something like that with no more info. Very short. I may have read the only true leak ever written on the whole Internet !

 

[AlphaWolf]

I'm not saying there's no value in gaming for MS - profit and diversity are good - but it clearly can't be as important to them as it is to Sony. They have proportionally less to gain from it than their other endeavours. So yeah, they'll do a good job because a half-arsed effort favours no-one. But if there's one of these companies for whom gaming matters more, who may push a little harder as a result, that has to go in Sony's favour.

I'm sure people working in the xbox division don't feel that way. I doubt more or less pressure from above is all that significant in terms of performance.

If you're talking about investment, it's certainly more important that Sony's console be profitable than for MS. If MS wants to win by throwing money at the problem Sony would be in trouble.

 

[bbot]

TSMC is going to have volume production of 5nm chips starting in 2H 2020. 5nm has double the density of 7nm process, so conceiveably, an 80CU SoC (Arden) is possible. The same number of CUs Tom Warren of The Verge, insisted, on Resetera, Arcturus GPU for the project Scarlett devkit will have.

It's Tpm Warren, so it's hard to easily dismaiss.

 

[Shortbread]

TSMC is going to have volume production of 5nm chips starting in 2H 2020. 5nm has double the density of 7nm process, so conceiveably, an 80CU SoC (Arden) is possible. The same number of CUs Tom Warren of The Verge, insisted, on Resetera, Arcturus GPU for the project Scarlett devkit will have.

It's Tpm Warren, so it's hard to easily dismaiss.

Hasn't Sony, Microsoft and AMD already confirmed 7nm Navi chips for the next-generation of consoles? Plus, a 5nm Navi chip in mid or late June of 2020, seems awfully late for a console product due November 2020. There would be months of testing/debugging/validation before mass production/assembly even begins. Don’t see 5nm chips happening with next-gen launch systems.

 

[bbot]

Hasn't Sony, Microsoft and AMD already confirmed 7nm Navi chips for the next-generation of consoles? Plus, a 5nm Navi chip in mid or late June of 2020, seems awfully late for a console product due November 2020. There would be months of testing/debugging/validation before mass production/assembly even begins. Don’t see 5nm chips happening with next-gen launch systems.

I don't recall them saying that.

 

[Nisaaru]

They obviously have 5nm samples now. This is about mass production in Q2 2020, not H2.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15016/tsmc-5nm-on-track-for-q2-2020-hvm-will-ramp-faster-than-7nm

The question is the yield and the size of chips which would be economical at the beginning. And then there's Apple who will probably take most of the production volume. Allegedly their A14s are already sampled at 5nm.

 

[Shortbread]

Judging by AMD's own roadmap there is no 5nm Navi/RDNA chips coming in 2020.

 

[Shortbread]

PS5 confirmation....

 

[bbot]

PS5 confirmation....

Good, you showed that PS5 SoC will be use 7nm node. Now show that Arden will use 7nm. AMD has not officially announced "RDNA2". I don't trust that slide, and if you do trust that slide, you'll have to conclude that PS5 will not use RDNA2, since RDNA2 is for 7nm+, not 7nm.

 

[Entropy]

Judging by AMD's own roadmap there is no 5nm Navi/RDNA chips coming in 2020.

5nm HP (suitable for for instance GPUs as opposed to mobile SoCs) is not due to be put into volume production until the last quarter of 2020, according to TSMC.

 

[goonergaz]

Good, you showed that PS5 SoC will be use 7nm node. Now show that Arden will use 7nm. AMD has not officially announced "RDNA2". I don't trust that slide, and if you do trust that slide, you'll have to conclude that PS5 will not use RDNA2, since RDNA2 is for 7nm+, not 7nm.

I thought it was already said that it's not RDNA2 but RDNA1+ (as in potentially has some RDNA2 features).

 

[Gubbi]

The first 6-9 months of 5nm production is going to be reserved by high margin mobile chipsets; Apple and Qualcomm, just like 7, 10 and 14/16nm was.

Then, as we slide down the supply<->demand price curve, we will see it in GPUs.

Cheers

 

[fehu]

Sony target specs are in the 11 tf range and MS are in the 10tf range.

Prime number or bust

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If you're talking about investment, it's certainly more important that Sony's console be profitable than for MS. If MS wants to win by throwing money at the problem Sony would be in trouble.

Right. If winning the console war was more important to MS, they'd just chuck some more money at it. They can easily afford to $100 extra loss over whatever Sony has, have the most powerful box, and attempt to bury Sony. It's not that important to them though. They run it like a sensible business, aiming to turn a profit, diversify the portfolio, help maintain relevance of Game Pass while it transitions to platform agnostic service, etc. If XBox sells gangbusters, great. If it doesn't, if it's another XB1, no loss. Whereas for Sony, if PS5 doesn't sell 100 million units and rake in the gaming subscriptions, they're seriously impacted. Sony has more riding on the success of their next console than MS has.