Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Deleted member 11852]

https://www.fraghero.com/this-is-how-different-console-dev-kits-look/

PS4 is interesting because there's clearly industrial design involved but it has zero parallels with PS4.

I have seen the above chassis (or something incredibly similar) used for ruggedised equipment for harsh environments. I wonder if it was simply repurposed for PlayStation. It's interesting that they use the upper left vent as a slot for the drive - I assume that's what it is.

 

[London Geezer]

Compared to my PS4Pro, the PS5 could run on diesel and it'd still be quieter.

THIS.

Sorry guys but living room quietness is so overrated. At least for a lot of us with boy/girlfriends/wives/kids rattling around being annoying all the bloody time, dogs/cats/guinea pigs being animals, cars/planes/neighbours/idiots outside.
Generally anyone having a normal life and not locked in a soundproof room.

 

[Nisaaru]

Well, the noise level of a X1X is acceptable. The noise level of a 360 even after copying the game to the HD is not.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well, the noise level of a X1X is acceptable. The noise level of a 360 even after copying the game to the HD is not.

As London-boy's point eloquently makes, it depends on your experience, environment and your expectation. If you are used to utter quiet when using your console, most consoles (excl. Switch) will be audible and that level of noise may be distracting or even "unacceptable" but for folks who do not game in such environments and where there is a already degree a ambient noise, the noise created by consoles may not be issue or even perceptible - unless is it excessive by modern CE standards.

I'm old so I remember when most CE devices, VHS recorders, consoles and computers - were almost completely silent except for a faint hum of the PSU or physical mechanisms being physical. The clonk-clock of a VHS tape ejecting a tape, the whirr of motors winding any tape device forward/backwards etc.

 

[manux]

Control showcases ray tracing in a really nice way. I wonder if ray tracing is the way to get nicer next gen graphics versus just adding somewhat more conventional gpu? To me it seems that trying to add more of the same is not going to make big leap in graphics. Maybe ray tracing can make a bigger difference?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I'm old so I remember when most CE devices, VHS recorders, consoles and computers - were almost completely silent except for a faint hum of the PSU or physical mechanisms being physical. The clonk-clock of a VHS tape ejecting a tape, the whirr of motors winding any tape device forward/backwards etc.

This is still what I expect from my CE devices. It's why, even though I built a fairly quiet HTPC server for watching on the living room TV, it's in a closet so that I can't hear the whoosh of the cooling fans. It's also why I was so impressed with the launch XBO. It's likely the first and only actively cooled console that wasn't audible enough to impinge on my hearing when watching content where there is often little to no audio (like many of the movies that I like). Or when I'd pause a game while I took a phone call. Or just navigating the menus.

I love my Switch, but it's annoying when the fan kicks in. I'm thinking about getting a 3rd Party USB-C TV out dongle so that it isn't in the dock. The dock helps to insulate the console increasing the amount of heat the internal fan needs to expel. I'm not expecting miracles, however as the case is still plastic, but maybe it'll make it a little less annoying.

It's also why, even though I just recently got a Ryzen 3700x, I have no plans to buy a x570 MB. They all have active cooling with small fans on the x570 chip. And that's just a recipe for loud annoying noises (relative to everything I've done to make my system run as silent as possible) in a few months. Hopefully the x670 chip whenever it comes out won't require actively cooling for the chipset. Or maybe there will be a revision to the x570 chipset to reduce the cooling requirements. Bleh. Or maybe someone will release an aftermarket passive cooler for it.

Regards,
SB

 

[MrFox]

As London-boy's point eloquently makes, it depends on your experience, environment and your expectation. If you are used to utter quiet when using your console, most consoles (excl. Switch) will be audible and that level of noise may be distracting or even "unacceptable" but for folks who do not game in such environments and where there is a already degree a ambient noise, the noise created by consoles may not be issue or even perceptible - unless is it excessive by modern CE standards.

I'm old so I remember when most CE devices, VHS recorders, consoles and computers - were almost completely silent except for a faint hum of the PSU or physical mechanisms being physical. The clonk-clock of a VHS tape ejecting a tape, the whirr of motors winding any tape device forward/backwards etc.

Last computer I remember without a fan was my amiga 500 and 1200. The loudest noise was the floppy drive and they had to reproduce that noise with samples in winUAE, otherwise it doesn't feel like an amiga. It's such a particular clunky sound waiting for the game to load. You need that sound to know if it's still loading, or it crashed, or the anti-piracy measure worked, or you had to boot in ntsc mode, or old chipset emulation, or limit memory to 512k, or the previous game had a bootloader virus which is now spreading to all your floppies.... It's funny the viruses still work and they spread across disks in the emulator between reboots, for the full experience.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Last computer I remember without a fan was my amiga 500 and 1200. The loudest noise was the floppy drive and they had to reproduce that noise with samples in winUAE, otherwise it doesn't feel like an amiga. It's such a particular clunky sound waiting for the game to load. You need that sound to know if it's still loading, or it crashed, or the anti-piracy measure worked, or you had to boot in ntsc mode, or old chipset emulation, or limit memory to 512k, or the previous game had a bootloader virus which is now spreading to all your floppies.... It's funny the viruses still work and they spread across disks in the emulator between reboots, for the full experience.

Back when I first switched to using x86 PCs, I remember most 286 and 386 CPUs were still passively cooled. It wasn't until I got a 486 back in the mid-90's that I had a CPU fan in my case.

Gah, and that just made me remember the horribly loud Delta CPU fans during the overclocking frenzy days when no one cared that their computer sounded like a jet engine. I think I may have suffered some ear damage from a friend of mine who had 4 of those in his case. Dual slot based Pentium 3's with 2 Delta fans on each one. My god that thing was so loud you'd probably be able to hear it at a rock concert.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shortbread]

THIS.

Sorry guys but living room quietness is so overrated. At least for a lot of us with boy/girlfriends/wives/kids rattling around being annoying all the bloody time, dogs/cats/guinea pigs being animals, cars/planes/neighbours/idiots outside.
Generally anyone having a normal life and not locked in a soundproof room.

Exactly.

I find it quite funny console gamers can tune-out or be totally oblivious of the noises from the HVAC, dishwasher, washer/dryer, family, pets, and all manners of external environmental noises... yet somehow, the PS4/Pro fan and XB360 ODD noise has them going nuts.

I guess working around PCs, servers, rendering-farms and all manners of filming & lighting equipment has made me jaded towards these types of complaints. :/

 

[BRiT]

It's not until you don't hear the loudness of the XBox One/S/X that you learn to hate the loudness of the PS4/Pro. The One X is an amazing feat.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It's not until you don't hear the loudness of the XBox One/S/X that you learn to hate the loudness of the PS4/Pro. The One X is an amazing feat.

Similar to how most people didn't think AA was necessary until most games started to support AA. Then the absence of AA became extremely noticeable.

Or similar to how 30 FPS is seen as perfectly fine until you do enough gaming at 60 FPS that suddenly 30 FPS feels AND looks clunky.

If you're used to something being a certain way, it will seem absurd for people to want something that isn't done that certain way.

I know some people that used to think their X360 was perfectly acceptable in their living room. I recently broke out my launch X360 and took it to a gathering we had. The expression on some of their faces. And comments similar to, "I can't believe I used to have that in my living room!"

Even better is the comments and rolled eyes from their significant others. Basically, like I tried to tell you, you doofus. Or, FINALLY, he understands the pain I went through.

Regards,
SB

 

[MrFox]

It's not until you don't hear the loudness of the XBox One/S/X that you learn to hate the loudness of the PS4/Pro. The One X is an amazing feat.

You got lucky in the roulette with a 175w model instead of the 200w ones?

Not sure how much better it can be than "I can't hear it", but it seems a question of luck.

 

[London Geezer]

Exactly.

I find it quite funny console gamers can tune-out or be totally oblivious of the noises from the HVAC, dishwasher, washer/dryer, family, pets, and all manners of external environmental noises... yet somehow, the PS4/Pro fan and XB360 ODD noise has them going nuts.

I guess working around PCs, servers, rendering-farms and all manners of filming & lighting equipment has made me jaded towards these types of complaints. :/

And I didn’t even mention the most obvious - the game sound itself! Anyone with half a decent surround sound system, which in this day and age is a basic human necessity, won’t be bothered by noise. And those with headphones? Case closed.

Sure, try to keep consoles nice and cool and relatively quiet, but I’d trade a little noise for more power any day of the week.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

And I didn’t even mention the most obvious - the game sound itself! Anyone with half a decent surround sound system, which in this day and age is a basic human necessity, won’t be bothered by noise. And those with headphones? Case closed.

Sure, try to keep consoles nice and cool and relatively quiet, but I’d trade a little noise for more power any day of the week.

Valid points for most, but for those living with other people, headphones don't solve the noise issue. And because I live with someone else who doesn't like "video games", I tend to play my games with the volume low, so system noise is always a consideration. I'd rather live in harmony with my partner than annoy her with loud noises that she doesn't appreciate.

Regards,
SB

 

[MrFox]

And I didn’t even mention the most obvious - the game sound itself! Anyone with half a decent surround sound system, which in this day and age is a basic human necessity, won’t be bothered by noise. And those with headphones? Case closed.

Sure, try to keep consoles nice and cool and relatively quiet, but I’d trade a little noise for more power any day of the week.

In a living room it seems pretty much fine with current consoles.

I was puzzled by those saying they hear it even with headphones, until I saw youtubers using it on a desk inches from them with a monitor, that can overall increase the noise by up to 20db. It goes quickly from "I can't hear it over the refrigerator hum" to "this is annoyingly loud".

It's ridiculous how each setup can differ.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Valid points for most, but for those living with other people, headphones don't solve the noise issue. And because I live with someone else who doesn't like "video games", I tend to play my games with the volume low, so system noise is always a consideration. I'd rather live in harmony with my partner than annoy her with loud noises that she doesn't appreciate.

Regards,
SB

You could just take up an obnoxiously loud hobby - like learning the bagpipes - and, after a couple of years of no improvement, make her feel special by saying that you're giving them up for her sake. By then, she'll either have divorced you, or the gentle hum of a fan will be imperceptible to her.

You're welcome.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What if she loves the idea and takes up the bagpipes with a view to forming a duet and forces Silent_Buddha to play instead of game? This plan of yours could easily go horribly wrong.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I love my Switch, but it's annoying when the fan kicks in. I'm thinking about getting a 3rd Party USB-C TV out dongle so that it isn't in the dock.

My Switch is completely silent, the only games that generate enough fan activity for me to feel (not hear) it are Breath of the Wild and Diablo III in handheld mode. In the dock, it's too far to hear anything.

In a living room it seems pretty much fine with current consoles.

This is my experience, but like my PC, I expect my higher-powered devices to need some cleaning over their lifetime. Every few years I'll power off my gaming PC and PlayStation, disassemble both, clean them out with compressed air and replace the thermal paste, because that stuff does not last forever and this makes the biggest difference.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Well, duh. I never said they were.

You didn't, but you used the names of retail products, seemingly as motive for doubting Shortbread's price proposition for the SoC.
In the end, what matters are die size, yields and waffer price for the given process.
EUV should bring the waffer prices down.

And given RDNA is still in its first iteration, we don't know if they have the potential to significantly increase compute throughput at little transistor and area cost. Similar to what happened between the 2nd and 3rd iterations of TeraScale (RV670 to RV770).

However, consider that Ryzen 2's 8 core die size is roughly 74 mm^2 and RX 5700 is roughly 251 mm^2. And then you have the 125 mm^2 uncore at 12 nm. So it's possible you may get that under 400 mm^2.

And all of that isn't even going into what might need to be added for RT support.

A lot of a SoC's uncore is already present in Navi, namely the memory controller. We don't know how much space the TMU-based RT acceleration is going to take, but could be minimal like it apparently is in Turing.

 

[London Geezer]

You could just take up an obnoxiously loud hobby - like learning the bagpipes - and, after a couple of years of no improvement, make her feel special by saying that you're giving them up for her sake. By then, she'll either have divorced you, or the gentle hum of a fan will be imperceptible to her.

You're welcome.

You also wrote...

From what I understand, women respect authority.

So, report your new wife to the police for masterminding 9/11. When she returns from Guantanamo Bay, your marriage should be stronger than ever.

I'm single btw.