Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

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However, this particular SDK is very different from prior designs, one Sony felt needed patenting.
What's the confirmation on that? Because patents are for technology, not designs. If there's a method and apparatus for cooling a computing device, it should be patented and documented (maybe not published yet?). Otherwise, if it's the design, that would be registered as you cannot patent it.

If there's a confirmed patent with a number we can look up, we should be able to see exactly why it's designed the way it is!
 
So hilarious that people are so unthinking they trot this out every so often.

PC's are incremental, and not bound to rigid power and thermal constraints as well, they will ALWAYS be the most powerful platform. The day PS5 comes out, the PC versions of it's multiplats will be superior, with the right rig.

Plus, PC gaming is just it's own thing. For sure many would stick with it even if it was somehow less powerful than consoles (not possible). You get a keyboard for community/twitch nonsense, a lot more customization, etc etc. Hell, probably 80% of PC gamers are playing MOBA's, Minecraft, fortnight etc that dont need a lot of power.

Mostly true.

There is one thing both next gen consoles are going to have that PC won't be able to match at launch, and perhaps not ever.

The SSD storage subsystem. As has been discussed here before, there are some aspects of the storage subsystem in the next gen consoles that are likely possible only because they don't have to service a robust OS environment where a user is free to run whatever they wish to run, including their own programs and all kinds of things that could potentially behave in unexpected ways (here's looking at you device drivers, for example).

Regards,
SB
 
Mostly true.

There is one thing both next gen consoles are going to have that PC won't be able to match at launch, and perhaps not ever.

The SSD storage subsystem. As has been discussed here before, there are some aspects of the storage subsystem in the next gen consoles that are likely possible only because they don't have to service a robust OS environment where a user is free to run whatever they wish to run, including their own programs and all kinds of things that could potentially behave in unexpected ways (here's looking at you device drivers, for example).

Regards,
SB
We don't have any idea of Microsoft specific SSD solution. For all we know it could be a standard 1TB SSD plugged into to the console and then still using PC compatible filesystem. Which would make sense as their games are also made for PC in mind.

The last Halo (Infinite) reveal was running on a PC. For nextgen games I wouldn't be surprised if most of their first party titles are first done and showed using a high end PC, then ported to console.

Using SSD as a additional (very slow) memory to expand the memory allocated for games is different than having a custom filesystem.
 
We don't have any idea of Microsoft specific SSD solution. For all we know it could be a standard 1TB SSD plugged into to the console and then still using PC compatible filesystem. Which would make sense as their games are also made for PC in mind.

The last Halo (Infinite) reveal was running on a PC. For nextgen games I wouldn't be surprised if most of their first party titles are first done and showed using a high end PC, then ported to console.

Using SSD as a additional (very slow) memory to expand the memory allocated for games is different than having a custom filesystem.

A standard PCIE SSD, even one using PCIE 4 isn't going to be 40x faster than the HDDs in the current XBO. Especially when it comes to real world numbers and not just technical specifications.

While it's possible for sequential (non-fragmented) reads or sequential (non-fragmented) writes using a PCIE 4.0 SSD to exceed 40x the read or write speed of the 2.5" HDDs you find in current gen consoles, you won't get even close to that when it comes to actual transfer speeds in games which are far more governed by random reads and writes. Not to mention all the other things that effect performance outside of sequential non-fragmented reads of large files (the smaller the files the lower your read speed).

As for showing footage using a PC, what does that have to do with the console storage subsystem? Almost nothing.

Regards,
SB
 
Micrososft already uses customized packaging and installation images on the PC for games. You dont think they would extend to newer and additional customizations to console? Or that Microsoft would use a newer customized file system for their console, like GameFS 2019 or whatever they could create?

It's not beyond MS's capabilities to have a filesystem for console ssds, after having already created the following filesystems we know about: FAT, FAT16, FAT16x, FAT32, FAT32x, FATx, exFAT, HPFS, NTFS, and lastly ReFS in 2012.
 
What's the confirmation on that? Because patents are for technology, not designs. If there's a method and apparatus for cooling a computing device, it should be patented and documented (maybe not published yet?). Otherwise, if it's the design, that would be registered as you cannot patent it.

If there's a confirmed patent with a number we can look up, we should be able to see exactly why it's designed the way it is!

I know nothings on patents filings or all the terminologies behind it, other than some vague layman understanding on how it possibly works. So when I referenced design, I meant everything inclusive of the device, including it's cooling solution. And from my layman's understanding, the physical design can be patented as well (see quotes). So, maybe Sony has filed a two part claim towards patents (one for the tech and one for case)? I would image certain PC case designers/manufacturers such as Cooler Master would have certain design patents on their cases. But as I stated earlier, I have just a vague understanding on patent filings.

https://www.upcounsel.com/how-to-patent-a-design
Patenting a design gives you legal claim to your original design, the ability to use and sell it, and the right to profit from the unique look of an object.

Design patents only protect the look of an object. They aren't the same as utility patents, which cover how objects work and how they're used. A design has to meet some basic requirements to qualify for a patent:

It doesn't affect the function of an object.

It is integral to an object and can't be removed.

Edit: If I'm not mistaken, there are two patents (or patent filings) on the design of the PS4 case (dimensions, size, ventilation process, etc.). When I have a chance, I'll post it.
 
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Seems that's a US term. Everywhere else, they're Registered Designs and patents are exclusively for inventions which will have a description of how they work and what is novel about them. If the design is registered in Japan, it'll be a Registered Industrial Design and not filed as a Patent. All invention patents are searchable at the patent office and must be public. Registered Designs vary more by country, it seems.

Checked the link.
https://nl.letsgodigital.org/uploads/2019/08/sony-interactive-entertainment.pdf

It's a Registered Design ('Design Patent' for weird foreigners :p), apparently registered in Brazil. Therefore, no scientific description of why it is the way it is. I can't find the Japanese original, but it seems designs are allowed to be hidden from publication for three years at the Japanese Patent Office.
 
What's the confirmation on that? Because patents are for technology, not designs.
The confusion comes from the USA calling registered industrial designs "design patents".

If there's a confirmed patent with a number we can look up, we should be able to see exactly why it's designed the way it is!
This is originally a Japanese registered design. However, the design itself is withheld ("Sealing period of principal design: 12 Month").

The weird thing is why someone working at a company protecting IP for Sony figured that this design needed particular protection in Brazil, thereby disclosing it. I'm guessing clerical error.

Edit: I see most of this has already been pointed out above. My apologies. I'll leave it for the link to the original Japanese registration.
 
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What's the confirmation on that? Because patents are for technology, not designs. If there's a method and apparatus for cooling a computing device, it should be patented and documented (maybe not published yet?). Otherwise, if it's the design, that would be registered as you cannot patent it.

Design patents. I don't know why you would want to in this case.

Coke_bottle_patent.JPG
 
@Silent_Buddha

I responded to that claim of yours. You think PC will never have PCIE 4 ?

PC will have PCIE 4. But PCIE won't get to the speeds that MS are claiming for Project Scarlett. That likely involves ignoring certain safeguards and conventions that exist on PC to guarantee system stability and integrity in addition to data integrity regardless of what is run on the PC. However, you could do that on a console as the data access patterns are likely to be far more limited than what a PC OS is expected to handle.

One example, you can make the storage system exclusive to the game being loaded on console, but you cannot do that on a PC.

Hence, we'll be lucky if PCIE 4.0 SSDs on PC give us even a 0.5x increase over PCIE 3.0 SSDs. Just like PCIE 3.0 NVME SSDs hitting say 1.5 GB/s transfer speeds don't give you much of an increase in loading times over an SATA SSD that can't go faster than about 500 MB/s. In such a case, you aren't going to see a 300% increase in how quickly a game loads. You'll be lucky to see even a 25% increase in the speed of loads.

It's also possible and quite likely that whatever storage subsystem is used on the console may also use non-standard hardware.

Regards,
SB
 
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I don’t see why anything on console can’t be done on PC. It may just cost more, but certainly doable.
 
I don’t see why anything on console can’t be done on PC. It may just cost more, but certainly doable.
Unless there's an API for it and supported by most gpu, or chipset, or storage drivers, a low level technique will not be used on PC.

On PC you're stuck with a rather low performance file system with a lot of feature creep, you won't access the raw drive, or use a high performance file system, or bypass the flash controller. A game dev can't ask you to format a section of your drive exclusively for a game.

Hardwired codecs that could decode LZ or JPG at many GB/s without taxing the CPU are not on PC. Even if it becomes available, games on PC cannot require you to buy the latest hardware.

Looking at loading times on PC from those with 3GB/s nvme drives, it's obvious there's something missing which have nothing to do with the storage hardware capabilities.
 
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