G2A scum tactics.

Whoa, just ran across this. Evidently G2A is now buying ad space on Google which puts their ads above the search results for the games made by many indie developers. And you can't turn off those advertisements. This makes it even more difficult for indie developers which already have a hard time trying to make money.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/developers-ask-players-pirate-games-142000011.html

Indie developers get absolutely ZERO dollars from sales through G2A, so a lot of developers are urging people to do the following...
  • If you are thinking of buying a game on G2A that we make, stop! Instead, go and pirate the game. We get the same amount of money from you buying a game on G2A as we would if you pirate the game.
Amazing. I'm absolutely speechless about how scummy G2A is.

Hopefully, noone here uses G2A. As much as I can, I'm always trying to get people to support the developers. Also, don't pirate the games, buy the games from a place where the developer can make some money...PLEASE. :)

Regards,
SB
 
Why?
edit : worked out why
but if ive got this right they shouldn't they've already been paid for the keys

What G2A does is have shell accounts that buy keys (often in bulk) with credit cards, sell the keys and then do charge backs on the credit cards. Once the cards and/or account associated with the card is flagged, they ditch it and start the process anew with a new account and new credit card. New accounts are usually made with stolen identities via identity theft.

The developers then have a PR nightmare choice. Invalidate the keys that someone bought from G2A creating a PR shitstorm on the internet or just bite it and basically give away the game for free.

Meanwhile G2A pockets the cash from the sale of the game without paying the developer anything.

This is why the indie developers are urging people to pirate the games rather than buying them from G2A. In both cases the developer won't get money, but at least if it's pirated then G2A won't get the money. Ideally, they'd want people to legit buy it from legit storefronts, but if people don't want to do that, then pirating is the next best thing.

Regards,
SB
 
Surely if thats the case G2A can be shutdown for wirefraud or whatever?
That would require linking the shell accounts to the company owners. As far as G2A is concerned, they've providing the services but not conducting the actual fraud.
 
Yup, it's hard to pin anything on G2A because they use supposed 3rd party sellers...which are usually, but not always, identity theft victims.

It's sort of like Torrent sites. They provide a service, a tracker, but other individuals put up the pirated material. To take down a torrent site requires either a lot of money (enough lawsuits that they just run out of money) or for the owners of the tracker to do something stupid that ties them to the pirating activities.

Since G2A is mostly targeting indie developers, there isn't a lot of cash to try to sue them. And since G2A doesn't sell stuff that would attract the big players (in the case of Pirate Torrent trackers it was the Movie studios and Music studios that brought down the big ones), the government doesn't have a lot of incentive to try to crack down on them ASAP.

This is compounded by the fact that Indie developers want to try to avoid the PR shitstorm of revoking a purchaser's license because that will often drive them into bankruptcy.

And without doing that they can't arouse enough consumer outrage to get the government involved.

Regards,
SB
 
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The developers then have a PR nightmare choice. Invalidate the keys that someone bought from G2A creating a PR shitstorm on the internet or just bite it and basically give away the game for free.

I do not see how it would create a shitstorm for the publishers if they revoked keys that where not paid for. The person who buys from G2A would be mad a G2A for providing a faulty key and demand their money back.

It might be the case that the publishers do not have the capabilities to revoke keys and implementing that might be costly.
 
I do not see how it would create a shitstorm for the publishers if they revoked keys that where not paid for. The person who buys from G2A would be mad a G2A for providing a faulty key and demand their money back.

It might be the case that the publishers do not have the capabilities to revoke keys and implementing that might be costly.

You would think that, but indie developers have tried that in the past and rather than blame G2A which was so considerate in giving them good prices on games, those "consumers" instead flamed the developers. Hence, almost all indie developers have stopped revoking keys that were sold through G2A. Hence, why they are urging people to pirate the games rather than buy from G2A.

I've seen numerous indie developers mention this in the past. There was one that was a guest on the Co-Optional Podcast a few years ago that basically lost his revenue stream due to this, he was quite bitter.

Romi Ismail (developer of Nuclear Throne and other games) who is often a guest host on Dropped Frames has commented about this quite often in the past, both from his perspective and from the perspective of the numerous developers that he knows. Basically every time G2A pops back into the media's consciousness.

Regards,
SB
 
What G2A does is have shell accounts that buy keys (often in bulk) with credit cards, sell the keys and then do charge backs on the credit cards.
Do you have anything to back that up ?
all I can find is that people have sold keys to them that have been bought using fraudulent means

Since G2A is mostly targeting indie developers,
Really looking at the p.c section I see Activision, 2K Games, Bethesda, Codemasters, Sega, Tripwire Interactive, Gearbox
and thats just the first 2 pages
 
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Do you have anything to back that up ?
all I can find is that people have sold keys to them that have been bought using fraudulent means

I'd have to go through years of various podcasts where developers talk about the issue. IE - not feasible for me. But if you wanted to look, most of what I heard came from developers that were hosted on either the Co-Optional Podcast over the past years or Dropped Frames.

I'm assuming that the Co-Optional Podcast VODs are still available on YouTube even though TotalBiscuit has passed away.

As for doing searches online, that gets harder as G2A pays a lot of people to post articles about how they are completely legit, etc.

https://www.polygon.com/2015/2/9/80...ose-mysteriously-cheap-gray-market-game-codes

Follow that story through to the end and you'll see how conversations with supposedly "non-affiliated" sellers rapidly devolve to untrustworthy and scummy. Most of them quite obviously aren't telling the truth about how they got the key that they sold. And how likely is it that their account details are actually of them and not some stolen identity?

Needless to say, much of what I relate is what the indie developers have themselves discovered. While some keys are still the result of gifted keys or extra keys, etc. Many of those avenues have been closed (EG - Humble Bundle having keys linked to your account and gifts being a steam gift link).

Also, that shows just how much people that buy their keys from G2A would rather blame the people making the game for key revocations than blame G2A for selling fraudulent keys.

Really looking at the p.c section I see Activision, 2K Games, Bethesda, Codemasters, Sega, Tripwire Interactive, Gearbox
and thats just the first 2 pages

That was mostly about the recent advertising that G2A has been buying on Google in order to get searches for indie games to have the top search result point to their sale page for those games.

Regards,
SB
 
Surely if thats the case G2A can be shutdown for wirefraud or whatever?

G2A can't be shutdown for wirefraud because they did no such thing.

G2A is a site where end users can resell key codes for Steam, Origin etc. that weren't activated yet.
Anyone can go to G2A and sell the product key of a game they got e.g. from bundles like Humble Monthly.

I think G2A presents a great opportunity for gamers to get back a little money from keys for games that they got but aren't interested in playing.
Indie dev got money from Humble Bundle to sell a steam key, I paid for Humble Monthly and got the key for that game but I don't want to play it so I sell it on G2A, someone pays $5 for that steam key on G2A, I get $4 for a key that would otherwise be unused, G2A gets $1. On the dev's side, after the key was paid for I think they'd prefer if people were playing the game to boost its popularity. No harm done IMO.

The problem here is the perception that G2A isn't trying hard enough to come after the users who abuse the credit card system. I don't know if they are, though.
But G2A isn't the one who's practicing credit card fraud.
 
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No, they just seem to be the ones running the entire site, much akin to Dread Pirate Robert's and the Silk Road market.
 
No, they just seem to be the ones running the entire site, much akin to Dread Pirate Robert's and the Silk Road market.
This is factually not true.

You can check this for yourself by creating an account and putting your unused steam keys on sale.
They do like the Steam badges where they tell you what the average price for that key is going for, and you can set your own price accordingly.

And your keys do get sold and you do get your money. I know a fair amount of people who always sell almost all keys within hours/days just by putting them at slightly below the average price.
 
G2A can't be shutdown for wirefraud because they did no such thing.

G2A is a site where end users can resell key codes for Steam, Origin etc. that weren't activated yet.
Anyone can go to G2A and sell the product key of a game they got e.g. from bundles like Humble Monthly.

I think G2A presents a great opportunity for gamers to get back a little money from keys for games that they got but aren't interested in playing.
Indie dev got money from Humble Bundle to sell a steam key, I paid for Humble Monthly and got the key for that game but I don't want to play it so I sell it on G2A, someone pays $5 for that steam key on G2A, I get $4 for a key that would otherwise be unused, G2A gets $1. On the dev's side, after the key was paid for I think they'd prefer if people were playing the game to boost its popularity. No harm done IMO.

The problem here is the perception that G2A isn't trying hard enough to come after the users who abuse the credit card system. I don't know if they are, though.
But G2A isn't the one who's practicing credit card fraud.

It is true that everyone can sell unused Steam keys on G2A, but what the developers have discovered is that the vast majority aren't legit Steam keys. This is by them tracking the keys that get charged back compared to the keys that get redeemed from purchase on G2A.

The fact that G2A uses "non-affiliated" sellers who's identities are in most cases unknown, means that it's quite easy for G2A affiliated people to sell keys using stolen identities. There's no way to trace the activity back to G2A themselves as long as they are careful.

So, sure, much of this is "speculation" on the part of affected developers, but pretty much most of them assume it is G2A as G2A has been reluctant to work with developers on closing access to ways to "abuse" the system. For example, one thing that came up a few years ago was G2A wanting developers to pay them thousands of dollars a year in order to address some of the concerns the developers had. A legit business would want to do all they could to ensure sellers on their system were legit, but the fact is that the bulk of the keys sold there are using fraudulent information...usually untraceable stolen identities.

This doesn't mean that legit keys aren't also sold on G2A, just that from what the developers have found out, the majority of the keys aren't legit.

There is one relatively high profile company that takes an active hand in banning/invalidating keys. Arena.net has an active stance in banning keys that are found fraudulent.

You can look up Guild Wars 2 in relation to G2A fraud and come up with tons of threads from people asking why their account got banned, and in most cases it'll be because they bought their key from G2A.

While Guild Wars 2 hasn't had an expansion in a while (their last was 2 years ago, I believe), they would issue warnings on their site whenever they released a new expansion to not buy the game from G2A because it would most likely be fraudulent and thus the user was likely to get their account banned.

While not credit card fraud, here's a G2A seller talking about their particular scam.


Selling reviewer keys (expressly prohibited by the licensing agreement for reviewer keys, sort of like an NDA). He also briefly mentions other ways G2A "sellers" commit fraud.

Regards,
SB
 
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Not really going to summarize the video, other than obviously Jim Sterling despises G2A.
 
The problem with a grey market (unauthorized) reseller is that you have no guarantee that the key is legit.

The GameDeals subreddit doesn't allow grey market resellers like G2A because there's little to no protection for buying a stolen key, and the harm can go further than just losing your money (your game account can be banned, and the publisher/dev whose key was stolen--rather than the thief--can be hit with a chargeback). The FAQ links don't work for me, but a quick search of "G2A" yields:

I think G2A presents a great opportunity for gamers to get back a little money from keys for games that they got but aren't interested in playing.
Indie dev got money from Humble Bundle to sell a steam key, I paid for Humble Monthly and got the key for that game but I don't want to play it so I sell it on G2A, someone pays $5 for that steam key on G2A, I get $4 for a key that would otherwise be unused, G2A gets $1. On the dev's side, after the key was paid for I think they'd prefer if people were playing the game to boost its popularity. No harm done IMO.
So, G2A takes more of a cut than Epic?

I'm okay with gifting or selling extra bundle keys yourself, but when you involve a third party that takes a cut of a transaction that's already prohibited in the TOS of most bundle sites, things would seem to get darker than grey.

Without looking much harder into this, shady key resellers seems like a problem G2A wouldn't want to fix, because how else are they going to get that many mistaken-purchase/surplus keys to sell? They're about volume, as is evidenced by the fact that some of their sellers have hundreds of thousands of reviews. Someone having hundreds of thousands of keys to sell seems wrong on its face. This isn't one of us selling a spare key or two. At that point, why isn't G2A itself buying keys cheap in one country and selling them in another? Cut out the middleman and become a storefront, like Humble.

I wonder how much things have changed from these years-old articles:
https://www.pcgamer.com/gearbox-dem...ens-to-scuttle-partnership-if-theyre-not-met/
https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/20160628/276019/G2A_Piracy_and_the_Four_Currencies.php
 
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A post on the G2A Website responds to the recent news of developers saying they'd prefer gamers pirate their games over buying keys through G2A's marketplace

Let’s lay all cards on the table. We will pay developers 10 times the money they lost on chargebacks after their illegally obtained keys were sold on G2A. The idea is simple: developers just need to prove such a thing actually happened on their stores.
To assure honesty and transparency, we will ask a reputable and independent auditing company to make an unbiased examination of both sides – the developer’s store and G2A Marketplace. The cost of the first three audits is on us, every next one will be split 50/50.
The auditing company will check if any game keys sold on G2A were obtained using stolen credit cards on a developer’s store compliant with card scheme rules from Visa and Master Card/payment provider rules. If so, G2A guarantees it’ll pay all the money the developer lost on chargebacks… multiplied by 10.
We want this process to be transparent, so we will publicly report every step of the procedure. Meaning, you will get information such as who came forward, and what the verdict was, all of which will be published for everyone to see.
If you’re a developer willing to cooperate, contact the G2A Direct team

And now onto some other Twitter-related issues that have popped up in the last few days.
For the sake of your time, here’s a TL;DR version:

G2A is a marketplace that’s all about making the prices for gamers as low as possible.
G2A’s business model is the same as any other big, global marketplaces’ like Amazon or eBay, with all its ups and downs. And just like them, we always try to maximize the ups and minimize the downs. Not only because of the law, but also because the customers require certain standards, and because the competition would beat us if we stayed behind.
Out of all marketplaces, G2A offers the best benefits for copyright owners – G2A Direct. Nobody else gives developers a percentage cut of all sales on their games sold by someone else.
G2A, like most online businesses, uses automated marketing, so every product available on the marketplace can be shown based on what the user is interested in.
If any developer suspects there are keys on the marketplace that shouldn’t be there, there’s a quick and easy way to report it. All it takes is to contact us. If any key was illegally obtained, we’ll remove it, block the seller and provide their personal data to the proper authorities.
We are and always were open for discussion, but a real one, not empty accusations and catchy slogans.
 
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