Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

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This is how hearsay starts. People get info on 20K benchmark on synthetic bench. Then they compare this score to best GPUs from ANOTHER vendor (not even AMD) and then say "So since PS5 is on 1080TI level we can expect 10+ TF and better performance then Scarlett".

Few pointers :

1. Firestrike bench can be VERY misleading
2. It is overall system score, not GPU score
3. We dont know how well 8core Zen2 scores, could score considerably higher then 2700 people compared it with
4. Vega56 with Intel i7 8700k scores up to 21600k, 2k more then with 2700
5. AMD cards generally do better compared to Nvidia cards, especially when compared vs scores in game benchmarks
6. 1080 scores better then 2070, yet 2070 is 20% faster card in actual games
7. We dont know how Navi compares to GCN in synthetic benchmarks

What to make of it? We dont know. We WILL know on 7/7 when NDA is dropped and we get Navi scores and Zen2 scores. When that happens, we can run benchmark with 3.2GHZ core clocks on Zen2 matched with Navi. Until then, it can perform anywhere from Vega56 to 1080Ti (not really).

In any case, my opinion is following :

1.Since NaviXT performs ~5% better then 2070 in games (allegedly), and since AMD GENERALLY scores higher then Nvidia, we can assume Navi XT score will be higher then Nvidia 2070 in FS benchmark

2. Navi is 9.75TF card in BEST case scenario (when boosted to 1905MHZ). AMD interestingly put "game clock" of 1755MHZ in slide, which I think is where this card will spend most of its time. On 1755MHZ, Navi XT is ~9TF card.

3. Navi XT with 40CUs is 250mm² card with 225W TDP (I assume under game clocks this will be ~180W). Both still high for console.

Chip is big, if paired with Zen2, some RT cores and 256 bit bus it should be max for console (considering node process is getting ever more expensive).

My conclusion, Navi XT is not 10TF card. Its much more likely to be 9TF card under load. It scores better then 2070 in games, so I assume it will score even better in benches.

AMD is likely concetrating more on rendering performance with new Navi then pure compute, therefore lower TF is still paired with considerably better performance in games.

Having said that, with everything laid out so far (die size, TDP, 7nm costs, Gonzalo) dont expect consoles to have more performance then Navi XT. I assume 36 active CUs with higher clocks and good cooling not to go overboard with die sizes. So all in all around 8TF. :)

One more intersting coincidence. Zen2 + Navi 10 - 40CUs + ~8% increase in CU size duo to RT and 256 bit bus should be ~316mm² on 7nm node.

This die size matches by mm to leaked PCB dev kit motherboard info that was posted on 20th of May. Since it was posted before Navi die size and CU design was known, he couldnt have known this information.

So that leak was either legit, which I believe it is, or extremely good fake that also got incredibly lucky with predicting how big (in mm accuracy) new RDNA chip with Zen2 would be on 7nm process,before we even had any info on it.
 
I don't think anyone's taking all those rumors 100% seriously, some maybe more reliable than others but rumor is still rumor. We should wait till at least 5700xt launches and witnessing legit benchmarks before delve further. So yeah, treat them as entertainment.
 
I don't think anyone's taking all those rumors 100% seriously, some maybe more reliable than others but rumor is still rumor. We should wait till at least 5700xt launches and witnessing legit benchmarks before delve further. So yeah, treat them as entertainment.
Gonzalo leaks are rumor. Apisak benchmark score is a rumor. Both worthy of disscusion, and I actually think Gonzalo is PS5.

Posting crapgamer/wordpress/pastebin talking about that same rumor ,on B3D, is IMO not worthy of discussion.

I think we can already safely predict what PS5/Scarlett will be packing. On 7/7 we will be able to do so with 90% accuracy.
 
Stolen from Era. So according to this CrapgamerReviews podcast, this third party dev they were interviewing mentioned the technical demo shown behind the scene suggests PS5 is easily 1080 Ti level. He also claimed there's definitely a power difference between PS5 and Scarlett and it's noticeable to the trained eyes. Although he wouldn't say which one is more powerful.
Starts at 1:27:00 mark.
My gut instinct tells me it's the PS5 devkit that's more powerful since it's on a 1080 Ti level and if Scarlett is more powerful then it would be near 2080 Ti which is hard to believe for a console APU.

Weird CrapgamerReviews whom favors the Xbox brand would actually put that "15% more powerful than Scarlett," in his video-podcast title. I guess even console warriors from different camps want those "PS5 MoPowitful111!!!" clicks.
 
Gonzalo leaks are rumor. Apisak benchmark score is a rumor. Both worthy of disscusion, and I actually think Gonzalo is PS5.

Posting crapgamer/wordpress/pastebin talking about that same rumor ,on B3D, is IMO not worthy of discussion.

I think we can already safely predict what PS5/Scarlett will be packing. On 7/7 we will be able to do so with 90% accuracy.
Read the thread title again please :), we also have a thread that's more based on technical merit and trust worthy sources too you know.
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...ion-with-a-technical-spin-post-e3-2019.61245/
But you're on the right track tho. I also believe Gonzalo is too real not to be in either one of those consoles.
 
I don't think anyone's taking all those rumors 100% seriously...
Perhaps not here, but people do, it seems. I think it's an issue with those attached to a brand, and they know they will buy that one over the other, that they want to know their choice is also the best, meaning most powerful (for those caring at this instance). Hearing that the machine you are going to buy is inferior is disappointing. Of course, if you don't care about numbers and only experience, like Nintendo gamers, it's not, but for XB and PS fans, especially considering they'll be playing the same cross-platform games, they want to be assured they are getting the better deal when being loyal.

That'll only apply to those following these rumours. The wider public who don't give a rat's arse live on on blissful ignorance, will buy the platform they like best, and not even know it has 15% inferior image quality.

Posting crapgamer/wordpress/pastebin talking about that same rumor ,on B3D, is IMO not worthy of discussion.
This is the 'dumb shit' thread. If you don't like the idea of discussing dumb shit, please opt out. ;)
 
1. Firestrike bench can be VERY misleading
2. It is overall system score, not GPU score
I'm not sure if Firestrike is misleading. It's an empirical test.
Readers are being misled if they don't understand what its testing however.

There are reasons why a lot of amateur data science folks continue to purchase up old 1070s for machine learning as opposed to buying the latest RTX cards. Performance per dollar is significantly better to begin with; but when we look at things like the different types of neural networks we run, some are more compute oriented, others are more bandwidth oriented, some are small enough to fit in large caches, and when somethings like that happens a 1070 will outperform a 2070 for instance (RNN/NLP) (IIRC 1070 > 2070 for some cache sizes)
credit: tim dettmers https://timdettmers.com/2019/04/03/which-gpu-for-deep-learning/
*yellow bar is beast on the pascals*
performance_RTX.png


Understanding the purpose of the benchmarks, and understanding how that may translate to game performance is pretty critical.

There is a lot of talk about TF. But I'd say the silent beast has been cache sizes and bandwidth. And It may not seem a big deal, but that 40% compute difference between X1X and 4Pro is translating to something much larger than 40%, and this is likely because of the increased cache sizes and bandwidth from memory.

Recent news is that Cyberpunk 2077 will be 4K on X1X.
https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/cyberpunk-2077-ps4-size-and-xone-x-resolution/zcd71

For a console that was largely believed to not be able to do any titles at native 4K. Many people are mistaken at how far developers have been able to push this machine. TF is not the only metric that will matter here.
 
Can someone please explain to me, why Sony or Microsoft would allow AMD or TSMC to test their respective undisclosed chips in an off-the-shelf manner, rather than a more secure manner? I mean, wouldn't custom silicon designs testing or even ES/QS chip testing from these type of partnerships be more high-level (secure) towards stopping performance metrics from being inadvertently (or purposely) leaked?

Seriously, if I was Sony or Microsoft I wouldn't have my undisclosed chips being tested in such an open manner where general AMD/TSMC company employees can willy-nilly access this stuff or put two-and-two together.
 
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Can someone please explain to me, why Sony or Microsoft would allow AMD or TSMC to test their respective undisclosed chips in an off-the-shelf manner, rather than a more secure manner? I mean, wouldn't custom silicon designs testing or even ES/QS chip testing from these type of partnerships be more high-level (secure) towards stopping performance metrics from being inadvertently (or purposely) leaked?

Seriously, if I was Sony or Microsoft I wouldn't have my undisclosed chips being tested in such an open manner where general AMD/TSMC company employees can willy-nilly access this stuff or put two-and-two together.
We don't know who is doing the testing, that's sort of the issue we have. It could be Sony themselves.

I mean, have they found the Microsoft chips yet? If the answer is no, then we can't necessarily put blame on AMD or TSMC.
 
We don't know who is doing the testing, that's sort of the issue we have. It could be Sony themselves.

I mean, have they found the Microsoft chips yet? If the answer is no, then we can't necessarily put blame on AMD or TSMC.

But wasn't the first leak of "Gonzalo" from someone supposedly having access to TSMC related data? And if Sony is testing PS5 ES chips in such an open manner, and showing up in comparative benchmark Web results - then they're complete idiots.

As for Scarlett related chips, wasn't there rumors surrounding the other undisclosed chips (forgot the names... art or argus something) from Komachi or APISAK
 
Having said that, with everything laid out so far (die size, TDP, 7nm costs, Gonzalo) dont expect consoles to have more performance then Navi XT. I assume 36 active CUs with higher clocks and good cooling not to go overboard with die sizes. So all in all around 8TF. :)
Everyone knows first version of Navi draws too much power and may not suitable for consoles. Why do some people insist consoles use this version of Navi instead of using other version with better power efficiency?

We can wait for more info of other versions of Navi GPU (high-end GPU or even 7nm+ RDNA2 based Navi GPU) to estimate console performance precisely.



I'm not sure if Firestrike is misleading. It's an empirical test.

Recent news is that Cyberpunk 2077 will be 4K on X1X.
https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/cyberpunk-2077-ps4-size-and-xone-x-resolution/zcd71

For a console that was largely believed to not be able to do any titles at native 4K.

Forza 7 already did native 4k at launch of X1X.
 
Everyone knows first version of Navi draws too much power and may not suitable for consoles. Why do some people insist consoles uses this version of Navi instead of using other version with better power efficiency?

We can wait for more info of other versions of Navi GPU (high-end GPU or even 7nm+ RDNA2 based Navi GPU) to estimate console performance precicely.
Because thats what we have? Because people thought MS and Sony will use special, next gen GPUs last two times, but they went with what they got, because AMD would deliver better if they could.

In any case, Navi XT Time Spy.

5700xt-Time-Spy-Table.png


Big advantage over Vega56 and Vega64 for normal Navi.
 
But wasn't the first leak of "Gonzalo" from someone supposedly having access to TSMC related data? And if Sony is testing PS5 ES chips in such an open manner, and showing up in comparative benchmark Web results - then they're complete idiots.

As for Scarlett related chips, wasn't there rumors surrounding the other undisclosed chips (forgot the names... art or argus something) from Komachi or APISAK
You mean:
Ariel == PS5
Arden == Anaconda
Argalus == Lockhart

I'm not sure I followed the information line that linked these back to their respective console vendors, but the only one that had a link were the codes from Gonzalo to Ariel.
Not sure how Ariel is connected to PS5 though.
@anexanhume or @Proelite may recall how this linkage began.

Might be a good time for a Baseless Summary for everyone catching up.
 
Gonzalo leaks are rumor. Apisak benchmark score is a rumor. Both worthy of disscusion, and I actually think Gonzalo is PS5.

It's likely that "Gonzalo" is rumored "2019 PS5".

Yes Gonzalo may be used in very early devkits to simulate the "2019 PS5". It may end up with 8TF for a console. This is why MS may believe xbox will defeat "2019 PS5".
 
It's likely that "Gonzalo" is rumored "2019 PS5".

Yes Gonzalo may be used in very early devkits to simulate the "2019 PS5". It may end up with 8TF for a console. This is why MS may believe xbox will defeat "2019 PS5".
Maybe. Or it may be that Navi was late, as was pretty much confirmed by AMD and there was no way console will be ready for 2019.

That and fact that Apple literally has monopoly over TSMC 7nm manufacturing capacity till next year.
 
Because thats what we have? Because people thought MS and Sony will use special, next gen GPUs last two times, but they went with what they got, because AMD would deliver better if they could.
Navi GPUs have a series of products and current 5700XT may be the less efficient GPU of the whole Navi family.

So using 5700XT you may only predict the baseline performance of next-gen consoles, not final.
 
This is more implausible.

PlayStation 5 Info
I won't reveal who I am. I don't want to be fired and want to keep my job. Simply doing this hoping to end all the misinformation on the internet. I'm not going to post on any forum for obvious reasons. I'm going to cut to the chase.
AMD 7nm Zen 2 Ryzen, 8 core 16 threads, @3.2GHz clock speed.
AMD 7nm Navi Next Gen RDNA, 36 Dual-CU (72CU), 64 shaders, @1.55GHz clock speed. 14.2TF.
RAM is still not final. Toying between 16GB-24GB GDDR6.
Hardware Ray tracing.
2TB SSD.
Full Backwards Compatibility.
8K Capable.
Aiming for Holiday 2020 release.
Please stop PMs.

lol

Alex, I'll take "What is thermal density?" for $500 please.
 
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