Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Shifty Geezer]

Makes sense. TBH I'd expect it to be compatible with all Windows VR headsets. T'would allow the same XBL VR game to be played on PC and console, enable a wide choice of headsets at different prices, and it would be silly to have a separate XB headset forcing headset owners to repurchase expensive gear.

I rate this rumour 4.5 stars.

 

[RobertR1]

https://lordsofgaming.net/2019/06/first-playstation-5-benchmark-just-leaked/

PS5 devkit benchmark.

The twitter handle is as legit as it comes.

 

[Wynix]

Above Vega 64 seems exactly where we expected.

 

[iroboto]

Conflicting facts. Only one of them can be true.

Facts are empirical by nature; cannot be reasoned against. 4/2=2 is a fact.

Truths are based on perspective and experience. You last saw the ball on the table. Someone asks you where the ball is. You say the table. But it is not on the table as the questioner is observing the table.

You did not lie. You just did not know that between the time in which you last saw it and when you were asked on it’s where about that the location of the ball was changed by your dog.

Obi-wan tells Luke that Darth Vader killed his father.

Only the people that can escape the Matrix know that there is a real world outside of the Matrix. For everyone else the real world is the Matrix.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I rate this rumour 4.5 stars.

Well from this part:

The move would make a lot of sense, in terms of Microsoft finding a way to connect VR to its gaming hardware. While Microsoft has dabbled in augmented reality with products like Hololens, the company lacks a dedicated VR headset of its own.

I rate the rumor 2 starts because the site seems to be completely unaware of the dozen Windows Mixed Reality headsets out there.

What's the point of Microsoft partnering with Oculus for VR on Scarlett? They have their own VR headsets, at much lower prices because by providing the tech to 3rd party makers they fostered competition (I bought my Lenovo Explorer for 150€ on an Amazon sale).
The advantage of Oculus isn't the hardware, much less the Rift S that features inside-out tracking exactly like the WMR models, plus the Rift S doesn't have IPD adjustment just like the cheapest WMR models.
Oculus has an advantage in the software ecossystem, but Scarlett should have its own ecossystem and I doubt Microsoft is willing to use Oculus' store for Scarlett.

At most, I think the plan is most probably to have WMR standard (and eventually a WMR 2.0 by 2020/2021) as the de facto VR platform for Scarlett. The real news here is Microsoft will be letting Rift S users connect their headset to Scarlett by emulating a WMR headset, and they'll probably do so with every PC VR headset that uses inside-out tracking, such as the Vive Cosmos.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Truths are based on perspective and experience.

Truth is absolute. Everything based on perspective and experience is speculation, extrapolation, estimation, guesswork, intuition, etc.

So, either the ball is on the table, or it's not. If it's moved, when the guy who saw the ball on the table says it's presently on the table, that's extrapolation on his part, and not in any way truth. The truth of that situation is the ball was on the table at the point he sampled its position. That people afford the same feeling of truth to probable scenarios as they do absolute truths is an aspect of the human thought process, but that doesn't change the nature of ground truth and we should never mix up a personal sense of reality with ground truth. Either there is a god or there isn't. Whether someone is certain there is or isn't a god isn't going to change the fact, and that person will just be right or wrong. There cannot exist a god for all those who know it's true, and at the same time not exist a god for all those who know god is not true.

Likewise, facts are absolute as measures of truth - the actual current state of the universe and everything in it - although the measuring process can be wrong. So facts are datapoints of stuff measured that are typically afforded a sense of truth until disproven, because we're working in a world of imperfect data. Although, of course, there are fake facts too, but these should technically be differentiated as lies.

So, fact, someone sees a console spec supposedly of an upcoming console. That the person saw a console spec is a fact (assuming they weren't hallucinating!). That the console spec pertains to what is releasing in the future is not a fact nor truth though. Another fact, someone hears a console has been cancelled. They actually heard that. Doesn't mean it's true, but the fact they heard that from their source is valid. If these events relate to the same product, both facts happened but, if one of them is true, only one is. Either the console exists or its been cancelled.

fact : someone saw a spec
fact : someone heard a cancellation
truth : either (console exists) OR (console does not exist)

I'm not really following what the facts and truth in contention here are, but felt the need to weigh in on what a truth is in this age of wishy-washy 'personal truths'. Regarding Obi-won's statement, it's only true or false depending on the definition of 'Darth Vader' and 'father' and 'killed'. If we take Darth Vader to be an alternate id to Anakin Skywalker, and take the gradual displacement of Anakin's id with Darth Vader's, you can kinda get away with saying DV killed Luke's father. The solid ground truth, not dependent on symbolic language to be justified, is Darth Vader is Luke's father, his biological progenitor, who turned evil and took on a different persona. That's the truth, even if flouncy language manages to express what happened in a symbolic way. Coupled with the fact Lucas was making up the story as he went along and DV wasn't originally Luke's father when Obi-won first explained it and he needed an explanation to introduce this plot twist, we see the truth isn't at all from a certain POV and the 'alternative fact' of DV killing Luke's father rather than being his father was an intellectual construct using words in metaphorical ways to excuse it being false.

Likewise in the Matrix, everyone in the Matrix is in the Matrix, whether they know it or not. When they eat an apple, they arne't eating an apple because in the universe, that apple doesn't exist. they are just receiving brain signals to make them feel they're eating an apple. The truth of that situation is they're in a giant computer thing in a vat of purple goo dreaming/hallucinating that they are eating an apple.

 

[Shortbread]

Facts are empirical by nature; cannot be reasoned against. 4/2=2 is a fact.

Truths are based on perspective and experience. You last saw the ball on the table. Someone asks you where the ball is. You say the table. But it is not on the table as the questioner is observing the table.

You did not lie. You just did not know that between the time in which you last saw it and when you were asked on it’s where about that the location of the ball was changed by your dog.

Obi-wan tells Luke that Darth Vader killed his father.

Only the people that can escape the Matrix know that there is a real world outside of the Matrix. For everyone else the real world is the Matrix.

Nothing going on here. Just two dynamic bro's making sure each other is getting proper sleep. Perspective!

FYI: Lighthearted joke in case I upset anyone or Bat/Robin fans.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I rate the rumor 2 starts because the site seems to be completely unaware of the dozen Windows Mixed Reality headsets out there.

? Does MS have a dedicated headset of their own? No. They don't need one as they support 3rd party headsets. And as they support 3rd party headsets on Windows, it makes sense to support them on their console rather than create on of their own.

What's the point of Microsoft partnering with Oculus for VR on Scarlett?

To enable OVR owners to use VR on Xbox.

At most, I think the plan is most probably to have WMR standard (and eventually a WMR 2.0 by 2020/2021) as the de facto VR platform for Scarlett. The real news here is Microsoft will be letting Rift S users connect their headset to Scarlett by emulating a WMR headset, and they'll probably do so with every PC VR headset that uses inside-out tracking, such as the Vive Cosmos.

I agree. Having OVR running on a WVR driver would enable that. Note that the rumour didn't say the headset was exclusive; only that OVr was comign to XB. Having OVR supported on XBox doesn't mean no other headset will.

 

[Shortbread]

More useless speculation... per Era/Pastebin

Scarlett/PS5: Target GPU (Navi 21 Lite)

XB2 52a / 11.3 / 395mm² / 240w / APU stk pck 320w
PS5 56a / 12.9 / 420mm² / 270w / APU stk pck 360w

What we know. Our current SDKs have Vega and Ryzen hardware. One of our earlier Microsoft XD kits had Nvidia based cards, no longer. I may release more information towards later September - some goodies coming our way.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

300W console?! Strikes me as implausible.

 

[AlNom]

I think they should designate the PS5 GPU the NSX and the Xbox GPU the Navi2A.

 

[Shortbread]

300W console?! Strikes me as implausible.

This is more implausible.

PlayStation 5 Info
I won't reveal who I am. I don't want to be fired and want to keep my job. Simply doing this hoping to end all the misinformation on the internet. I'm not going to post on any forum for obvious reasons. I'm going to cut to the chase.
AMD 7nm Zen 2 Ryzen, 8 core 16 threads, @3.2GHz clock speed.
AMD 7nm Navi Next Gen RDNA, 36 Dual-CU (72CU), 64 shaders, @1.55GHz clock speed. 14.2TF.
RAM is still not final. Toying between 16GB-24GB GDDR6.
Hardware Ray tracing.
2TB SSD.
Full Backwards Compatibility.
8K Capable.
Aiming for Holiday 2020 release.
Please stop PMs.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Simply doing this hoping to end all the misinformation on the internet.

 

[Shortbread]

 

[Shortbread]

Above Vega 64 seems exactly where we expected.

I don't know why I refuse to believe that a potential console APU is outperforming a Vega 64 and damn near matching an RTX 2080... thus making my left eye twitch. It's not that I don't totally distrust AMD's claims of Navi's perf/wat efficiencies over the prior architecture, its just the PC gamer side of me knowing console peasants are getting something nice this time around (if all this holds up).

 

[iroboto]

Truth is absolute. Everything based on perspective and experience is speculation, extrapolation, estimation, guesswork, intuition, etc.

Hmm.. it would appear we have exactly swapped our definitions of truth and fact. I would have called this "The truth of that situation is the ball was on the table at the point he sampled its position." A fact; the position of the ball as observed at the specific point in time.

Anyway it's not important. The only reason i brought it up is because some baseless rumours are more useful than others in terms of information gain. This is because some baseless rumours require time to be of use, the time in which their source provided that information, the time in which the leaker received their information, the time in which the leaker released the information; make the claim basically baseless.

But empirical leaks are more useful, we can assert very quickly if they are right or wrong, or how right or wrong they are. We can assign credibility to the claim based on its accuracy. So the leads right now on Gonzalo are more useful as information than the statement of "Lockhart existed, didn't exist", or "PS5 is more powerful than Project Scarlett".

This old leak from Jan 2019 which was downvoted into oblivion and subsequently deleted from reddit actually proves much more promising than many of hte leaks we've had.

https://imgur.com/a/i3TnTKk

People leaked Bleeding Edge trailer 2 days before E3, but this guy called out Bleeding Edge back in Jan 2019. Launch titles are lining up correctly as well from everything we can see taking form with the cross gen listings. And as Alex wrote, we see no evidence of Ray Tracing on Halo. He marks Forza of course for that. And There hasn't been a new Forza since 2017. The specs that were announced were correct and that was before Sony made their announcements as well. At least we have something to correlate against and there is enough correct information here that we can credibly say that this person had inside information (at least about what MS was doing).

If January Lockhart was apparently cancelled, then this post has extremely old information, or Lockhart wasn't cancelled until recently.

 

[borntosoul]

I believe die size and trany count will be a lot bigger compared to last gen.
Don’t see cpu clocks getting to 3.6 though, probably be around 2.4 to 2.8 ghz.

Gonna be juicy.

 

[AlNom]

It might be neat to see an optional perf profile where 1 core on each are turbo’ed. That’d give some devs at least up to 4 main threads for the engine at higher-than-base speed.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

? Does MS have a dedicated headset of their own? No.

All WMR headsets are using Microsoft's own hardware IP, drivers and software ecossystem for VR. All WMR headsets carry Microsoft's branding and they won't work natively in any platform other than UWP.
That article makes zero mention of WMR headsets, casually says Microsoft has no VR headset and presents the Rift S as the VR headset that Microsoft will adopt for Scarlett.

We agree on all the rest.

300W console?! Strikes me as implausible.

Not to me.
Those could be TBP values of 240W and 270W (absolute maximum rarely reached) for the motherboards, and 320W / 360W could be the power supply ratings.
The first generation PS3 came with a 400W power supply.

We could be looking at typical power consumption values of 200-250W between both consoles, with the power supply's spare wattage being there to feed gamepads (and smartphones / tablets / tablet gamepads?) with USB-PD fast charging (at least 18W per port), fast external drives (5W?), VR headsets (up to 28W if similar to VirtuaLink), etc.

This old leak from Jan 2019 which was downvoted into oblivion and subsequently deleted from reddit actually proves much more promising than many of hte leaks we've had.

And as I said, those early "2019 PS5" specs might be the reason why Phil Spencer was convinced he'd have the most powerful console in 2020. Perhaps he thought he'd have one console faster and one slower than the PS5, one for older 42" TVs and one for >55" 4K models. Sony perhaps decided on postponing a year to release a more powerful console that used 7nm+ and a significantly larger SoC, and Microsoft found themselves with one slightly weaker console and a considerably weaker one. Couple that with complaints from devs and Lockhart suddenly doesn't make sense anymore.


Regardless, that post was probably discarded because Sony in the meanwhile announced they weren't going to release the PS5 until the 2nd half of 2020.

People leaked Bleeding Edge trailer 2 days before E3, but this guy called out Bleeding Edge back in Jan 2019. Launch titles are lining up correctly as well from everything we can see taking form with the cross gen listings.

Ninja Theory was acquired by Microsoft in June 2018, and Bleeding Edge was mentioned by Ninja Theory themselves when they were recruiting new people in August 2018.
There's nothing exclusive about claiming Bleeding Edge would be present in a console launching 2 years later.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

All WMR headsets are using Microsoft's own hardware IP, drivers and software ecossystem for VR. All WMR headsets carry Microsoft's branding and they won't work natively in any platform other than UWP.
That article makes zero mention of WMR headsets, casually says Microsoft has no VR headset and presents the Rift S as the VR headset that Microsoft will adopt for Scarlett.

The article strikes me as a gamer article adding a lot of personal speculation rather than a good quality rumour exposé. Particularly, the quoted rumour is about Xbox supporting OVR, not about VR on Xbox. It doesn't say, "OVR was selected as the VR solution for XB," or, "MS are working with Oculus to create a VR headset," but "OVR is going to be supported." I imagine the rumour comes from someone working with/around Oculus hearing that OVR was going to be supported on XB, rather than someone working with VR hearing XB is choosing OVR as their VR partner.

Is it more likely MS are ignoring their own WMR standard to have a single hardware partner supplying a specific (currently pricey) Xbox headset, or is it more likely MS will support their existing VR standard on their next console enabling access to a wide price-range of VR solutions and are going to ensure compatibility with one of the most common VR headsets out there by working with the supplier on creating XBN drivers? Especially when we see MS opening up their current-gen box to standard Windows keyboard and mouse controllers. It'd be a completely backwards step versus their current philosophy to create a proprietary Xbox headset.