Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[HBRU]

Speaking of, I do wonder about the implications of the midgen butterfly effect ( ) in the context of Navi.

If Sony is planning a Ps5-pro just by butterfly approach 36@1822 mhz may be true.... on TICK they go up with frequency and on TOK they double the CU count...

 

[Shortbread]

No. No it wouldn't.

Agreed. In the grand scheme of things, raw teraflop performance doesn't mean much in varying real-time gaming scenarios. However, you bets believe if one system has the teraflop PR advantage (say 1TF or more), that checkmark / bulletpoint will be paraded like a championship trophy by the company and its acolytes of loyalist.

So yes, comparing and educating gamers on the efficiencies and performance advantages of Navi compared to the prior architectures isn’t going to happen, so these ignorant “TF” battles are still going to occur regardless if they were educated on such matters. And the astroturfing, shilling and the feeding of false narratives by supposed insiders and even actual company heads, should be more concerning than teraflop performance and console loyalist.

Thank God most of this nonsense is primarily confined to gaming boards and tech related sites.

 

[Globalisateur]

I now expect around 2.8 ghz for PS5 CPU. Going nicely with 1.4 ghz for the GPU !

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Agreed. In the grand scheme of things, raw teraflop performance doesn't mean much in varying real-time gaming scenarios. However, you bets believe if one system has the teraflop PR advantage (say 1TF or more), that checkmark / bulletpoint will be paraded like a championship trophy by the company and its acolytes of loyalist.

If one company doesn't describe their hardware, it can't be used by competitors. Only acolytes using DF analyses will say anything. Best a company can do is claim the most powerful console ever, which in itself isn't a great selling point. The buying public doesn't swing from brand to brand for the most powerful whatever, be it phones, car, console, washing machine,... They buy the product that offers what they want at the price they want to pay. 'Good enough' is always good enough.

 

[Shortbread]

If one company doesn't describe their hardware, it can't be used by competitors. Only acolytes using DF analyses will say anything. Best a company can do is claim the most powerful console ever, which in itself isn't a great selling point. The buying public doesn't swing from brand to brand for the most powerful whatever, be it phones, car, console, washing machine,... They buy the product that offers what they want at the price they want to pay. 'Good enough' is always good enough.

Not if actual documents leaks occur or developers aren't mindful during interviews. The tech world isn't really known for keeping these things zipped-up / tightlipped on such matters.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It still won't be used in public relations, not as teraflops numbers. eg. Let's say PS5 is leaked as 10 TF, and Scarlett is 12 TF. MS won't put 12 TF and 10 TF side by side because that info isn't officially public domain for them to use. So they'll just say, "most powerful console ever." It's only forum warriors who'll pitch flops head to head, to repeat the nonsense of last gen. "PS3 has the more powerz....oh, 360 plays games better. Just wait until the lazy devs get not lazy and tap the Cell though!"

The only thing real people give a shit about is the games, experience, and the price. Doesn't matter if Scarlett is 20% more if PS5 is pretty enough and plays all them exclusives and has PSVR2 and whatever it is that is the deciding factor for its buyers. Wouldn't matter if PS5 is 20% more than Scarlett if Scarlett is pretty enough and plays all those games on PC as well and MS's new IPs rock and whatever reasons people have to buy Scarlett.

The only time raw power really makes a difference is when all else is equal and it's the only deciding factor. As there's so much difference in the other stuff, "most powerful" is not a deciding factor for 90% of buyers. "Most powerful" sold OXBs as it was it's USP and the only thing going for it, until networked (which I think was it's real major selling point in the end). "Woefully underpowered" isn't hurting Switch sales because all the other features are far more important; its power is 'good enough'.

 

[iroboto]

Excerpt:

Platinum Games studio head Atsushi Inaba has said he’s finding it “hard to get excited” about Microsoft’s and Sony’s plans for next-generation consoles, stating that the upcoming hardware feels like “more of the same”.

Asked for his reaction to the platform holders’ plans, Inaba said: “It’s OK. And by that I mean, I’m sure that things will move faster, graphics will be better and maybe it will be easier with less wait times… that’s good for the consumer.

“But it’s more of the same, quite frankly, compared to previous generations. It’s nothing that’s disruptive or super innovative, if you ask me.”

He added: “Game hardware used to be about custom chips that you couldn’t do on PCs. Now you look at it and they’re just grabbing stuff that already exists.

“The Switch, for example, is a Tegra which already existed and the other consoles are using very similar chips and graphics cards to what you see on PCs, but maybe slightly updated. None of it seems unique to that hardware anymore.”


https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/platinum-boss-says-next-gen-consoles-more-of-the-same/
----------

Once again, keep expectations in check.
If people are worried about not enough TF difference to make next generation games. Well... rest assured your worries will be fulfilled

 

[Shifty Geezer]

TBH though, he's an idiot. Games are about software, not fancy-pants hardware. Consoles used to be about custom hardware because they needed to be. Now they don't and esoteric hardware is just a pain to work with. Sony consulted devs and they said they didn't want esoteric hardware even if it could do more, because it meant more work.

Things have moved on. The industry has matured. Just as PC's are 'boring' compared to the wild west of the 8 bit era, with zillions of competing, incompatible computers, but whcih actually let you do the stuff you want to do, consoles are now 'boring'. This is a Good Thing as it means better games and happier developers, save a few masochistic tech-enthusiasts who like the Good Old Days. Incidentally, how many of Platinum's games have used the new features like motion controls and the touch pad?

And reading the article...he's excited about what Cloud Computing offers??? That's more of the same in droves. Go mobile and create location base AR games or something. Don't try and palm off AMD APUs in a Google server as new and exciting versus AMD APUs in local consoles as dull and repetitive.

 

[Globalisateur]

He is supposed to talk about the PS5 and XBX2, two consoles that still only exist in theory, only specs on paper. So to prove his point about those consoles to be released min 16 months from now he uses as example an existing gaming tablet using years old tech ?

What Shifty said...

 

[iroboto]

TBH though, he's an idiot. Games are about software, not fancy-pants hardware. Consoles used to be about custom hardware because they needed to be. Now they don't and esoteric hardware is just a pain to work with. Sony consulted devs and they said they didn't want esoteric hardware even if it could do more, because it meant more work.

Things have moved on. The industry has matured. Just as PC's are 'boring' compared to the wild west of the 8 bit era, with zillions of competing, incompatible computers, but whcih actually let you do the stuff you want to do, consoles are now 'boring'. This is a Good Thing as it means better games and happier developers, save a few masochistic tech-enthusiasts who like the Good Old Days. Incidentally, how many of Platinum's games have used the new features like motion controls and the touch pad?

And reading the article...he's excited about what Cloud Computing offers??? That's more of the same in droves. Go mobile and create location base AR games or something. Don't try and palm off AMD APUs in a Google server as new and exciting versus AMD APUs in local consoles as dull and repetitive.

I guess his concern is that there isn't a hard generation cut.
I don't care for it, I like my library moving forward.

But exotic architectures really meant your libraries are going to have a tough time moving forward, for... what, I'm unsure. I don't think being exotic makes things better. I very much agree, that boring, is perhaps desirable. Get the coding hard stuff out of ht way, and focus on making better games.

But to his point though, people hoping for there to be this massive separation away from our mid-gen consoles, I'm fairly positive the mid-gen refreshes will be able to keep up wth next gen games for a while.

 

[Shortbread]

Excerpt:

Platinum Games studio head Atsushi Inaba has said he’s finding it “hard to get excited” about Microsoft’s and Sony’s plans for next-generation consoles, stating that the upcoming hardware feels like “more of the same”.

Asked for his reaction to the platform holders’ plans, Inaba said: “It’s OK. And by that I mean, I’m sure that things will move faster, graphics will be better and maybe it will be easier with less wait times… that’s good for the consumer.

“But it’s more of the same, quite frankly, compared to previous generations. It’s nothing that’s disruptive or super innovative, if you ask me.”

He added: “Game hardware used to be about custom chips that you couldn’t do on PCs. Now you look at it and they’re just grabbing stuff that already exists.

“The Switch, for example, is a Tegra which already existed and the other consoles are using very similar chips and graphics cards to what you see on PCs, but maybe slightly updated. None of it seems unique to that hardware anymore.”


https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/platinum-boss-says-next-gen-consoles-more-of-the-same/
----------

Once again, keep expectations in check.

In many ways I do miss the old Sony… even if their hardware fell short of certain performance metrics when compared to other systems. It just made for better conversations and debates across tech boards. But it’s for the best. No need for developers to spend time and energy on tackling finicky hardware, when it’s best served developing the game itself.

Sony consulted devs and they said they didn't want esoteric hardware even if it could do more, because it meant more work.

Lazy devs! j/k

 

[BRiT]

TBH though, he's an idiot.

He's a tool.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Complex, innovative hardware bla bla...

"The biggest failure for Platinum so far, the one that really sticks in my mind, is that [Bayonetta] port," lamented Inaba. "At the time we didn't really know how to develop on PS3 all that well, and whether we could have done it… is irrelevant: we made the decision that we couldn't. But looking back on the result, and especially what ended up being released to users, I regard that as our biggest failure."

 

[eastmen]

It is my understanding that sony's dev kits are faster than what MS has given to devs so far. However MS doesn't have the final specs in place and the surface team is working on a pretty interesting cooling solution for them. MS has also taken a lot of data from the xbox one/s/x and are adding in additional things to help with bottle necks.

Oh and project x cloud recently got upgraded from 256 gig ssds to 1tb ssds. MS's numbers are not bullshit on the ssd as the one in scarlet will be an nvme . MS is about making the console as powerful and as small as possible.

There will also be two versions of the console. One with a disc drive and with a larger capacity drive but no disc drive. I am not sure if they are both launching for the holiday or if one is coming out the following year yet,

I know nothing about a lower spec console other than rumors and again that might be a 2020 thing using recycled apu's from the more powerful console

I can say that MS is quite keen on the most powerful console title and will do anything within reason to have that marketing point again

 

[borntosoul]

See the rumors regarding price ? Some are saying they're going to be high because of the specs, even up to $800. I can't see that happening but $500 -$600 Is probably more like it.

 

[eastmen]

See the rumors regarding price ? Some are saying they're going to be high because of the specs, even up to $800. I can't see that happening but $500 -$600 Is probably more like it.

$800 for scarlet with the full add ons mabye

 

[Globalisateur]

It is my understanding that sony's dev kits are faster than what MS has given to devs so far. However MS doesn't have the final specs in place and the surface team is working on a pretty interesting cooling solution for them. MS has also taken a lot of data from the xbox one/s/x and are adding in additional things to help with bottle necks.

Oh and project x cloud recently got upgraded from 256 gig ssds to 1tb ssds. MS's numbers are not bullshit on the ssd as the one in scarlet will be an nvme . MS is about making the console as powerful and as small as possible.

There will also be two versions of the console. One with a disc drive and with a larger capacity drive but no disc drive. I am not sure if they are both launching for the holiday or if one is coming out the following year yet,

I know nothing about a lower spec console other than rumors and again that might be a 2020 thing using recycled apu's from the more powerful console

I can say that MS is quite keen on the most powerful console title and will do anything within reason to have that marketing point again

Reinier implied in his tweets that devs were comparing (final) target specs, not current devkits.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Reinier implied in his tweets that devs were comparing (final) target specs, not current devkits.

And if the specs aren't final? (as eastmen said in the post you quoted)

 

[RobertR1]

I get what the Platinum dev means. For many generations, that start of a new console cycle had a lot of mystery around the hardware and wonders (or blunders) they could do when not limited to off the shelf hardware from the pc parts bin. Some of those could even pave the way for future PC products. There was risk associated and an element of excitement.

Now we are resigned to what PC parts are available. Worst yet, limited to one company’s portfolio.

When the new consoles come out the corporate hat wearers will find all sorts of spin to make their product seem exotic but it ultimately won’t be. For me, that’s the most deflating element.

Thus I’m much more happy about things like Game Pass ultimate than being excited for cut down versions of products that will have already been in circulation for 1.5 years.

Of course I hope the be shocked and surprised but I won’t bet on that.

 

[Shortbread]

It is my understanding that sony's dev kits are faster than what MS has given to devs so far. However MS doesn't have the final specs in place and the surface team is working on a pretty interesting cooling solution for them.

I'm pretty sure the PS5 and XB-Next silicon designs have been completed at this point. And that dev's have a pretty good idea on what the targeted specs are from Sony's and Microsoft's respective SDKs. But yes, things like GPU/CPU frequencies can be adjusted over the coming months if their cooling solutions allows for such adjustments.