Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Ike Turner]

From the AMD press release :

This processor builds upon the significant innovation of the AMD Ryzen™ "Zen 2" CPU core and a "Navi" GPU based on next-generation Radeon™ RDNA gaming architecture including hardware-accelerated raytracing.

This to me means that the RT "solution" (whatever that is; RT blocks, dedicate CUs etc) is most probably made by AMD (not some fancy MS tech slapped on Navi). Which in turns probably means that Sony will have exactly the same solution in the PS5.

 

[iroboto]

From the AMD press release :



This to me means that the RT "solution" (whatever that is; RT blocks, dedicate CUs etc) is most probably made by AMD (not some fancy MS tech slapped on Navi). Which in turns probably means that Sony will have exactly the same solution in the PS5.

It's honestly the most sensible conclusion. The reason why 'next generation' may have been triggered and both companies arrived to the same hardware configuration.

 

[London Geezer]

From the AMD press release :



This to me means that the RT "solution" (whatever that is; RT blocks, dedicate CUs etc) is most probably made by AMD (not some fancy MS tech slapped on Navi). Which in turns probably means that Sony will have exactly the same solution in the PS5.

I’d bet money on it. They’re practically the same. Maybe - MAYYYYBEEEE - one might have slight higher clocks, if they manage a better cooling solution. But even then, my money is on pretty much same hardware. Which is great.

 

[MrFox]

They claim to be the first ever to have hardware assisted RT (from the video "hardware accelerated for the first time ever"), just about consoles I guess, otherwise maybe nvidia have something to say.... So they better be confident to launch before Sony if they have the same thing. They will also have "resolution and frame rate we've never seen before like never seen before" [sic] but that was not claimed to be first, just what the future provides.

I really liked the possible solution where the gpu was just modified to be better with RT workloads instead of having separate custom compute blocks which would be wasted during non-RT workloads. I don't know if that's a real possibility, but it sounds more efficient than the nvidia method. There's really no info about that yet.

The nvidia numbers on paper are quite dramatic, maybe there was a good reason to do it that way?

 

[BRiT]

I take all of Microsoft's statement to be within the confines of their own console segment of Xbox and not included other manufacturers.

Statement: "hardware accelerated for the first time ever"
Reads as: "hardware accelerated for the first time ever on Xbox Console"

 

[bgroovy]

I read that as "don't be disappointed with less RAM than expected by internet rumors, we don't need it and have ways around that limitation"

Bingo.

Comparing the blue PCB in the video to the Navi board above I think there are only 8 memory chips on Scarlett. I think it only has 16GBs.

 

[MrFox]

I take all of Microsoft's statement to be within the confines of their own console segment of Xbox and not included other manufacturers.

Statement: "hardware accelerated for the first time ever"
Reads as: "hardware accelerated for the first time ever on Xbox Console"

Yeah, that's logical. They often make sure to say it that way (like... most powerful console we've ever made) since they can't possibly predict or know about the competition. But they do have a history of competitive PR statements as soon as the specs are in the open. It's good PR only if it's true and a couple times they went too far and it backfires.

 

[MrFox]

Bingo.

Comparing the blue PCB in the video to the Navi board above I think there are only 8 memory chips on Scarlett. I think it only has 16GBs.

The extremely out of focus far side is showing a black blob which might be perceived as a memory row of three. Maybe. I honestly see 10 chips possible, so that would be funny if it ends up somewhere between 8 and 12.

 

[BRiT]

The extremely out of focus far side is showing a black blob which might be perceived as a memory row of three.

Maybe that's the special sauce that's impacted by a reality distortion field. Hence the blur.

 

[DavidGraham]

So first gen Navi lacks RT hardware. Which means consoles have the second gen Navi.

 

[BRiT]

So first gen Navi lacks RT hardware. Which means consoles have the second gen Navi.

Or an addon RT-RT unit through collaboration with Intel, according to various Paste-Bins.

 

[MrFox]

Wouldn't the 1GB of L4 cache help a lot for RT?

I mean if it could exist outside of our dreams?

 

[Jay]

So first gen Navi lacks RT hardware. Which means consoles have the second gen Navi.

If first gen navi had RTRT then I would be more confident to say that both consoles use that version of RTRT.

This to me doesn't automatically mean that the consoles use next gen navi. They could use current navi with RTRT back ported from next gen navi, or a custom implementation.
Or just next gen navi, all up in the air still.

Be interesting what apart from RTRT next navi has

 

[DavidGraham]

Be interesting what apart from RTRT next navi has

Anand confirmed hardawre RT coming for RDNA 2

Navi does not include any hardware ray tracing support, nor does it support variable rate pixel shading. AMD is aware of the demands for these, and hardware support for ray tracing is in their roadmap for RDNA 2 (the architecture formally known as “Next Gen”). But none of that is present here.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14528/amd-announces-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rx-5700-series/2

 

[Jay]

Anand confirmed hardawre RT coming for RDNA 2


https://www.anandtech.com/show/14528/amd-announces-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rx-5700-series/2

Yea.

I'm actually more inclined to believe they are navi 2 based due to the lack of VRS in current navi.

For the record I'm not saying I don't think that they are navi 2 based, just that lacking RTRT wouldn't make it a lock, as it can be back ported or use custom implementation.

 

[anexanhume]

I would bet MS has custom VRS implementation.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180047203A1/en

Filed in 2016 and has their lead GPU architect on it amongst others.

 

[DavidGraham]

https://www.computerbase.de/2019-06/navi-radeon-rx-5700-xt/

 

[anexanhume]

https://www.computerbase.de/2019-06/navi-radeon-rx-5700-xt/

FWIW, an insider on Era is claiming both have HW RT.

 

[Ike Turner]

FWIW, an insider on Era is claiming both have HW RT.

 

[DavidGraham]

FWIW, an insider on Era is claiming both have HW RT.

That was in reference to consoles: PS5 and Scarlet. Per AMD's own words, hardware RT is only present in RDNA 2. The question is, does PS5 and Scarlet have RDNA 2 or RDNA 1 with custom RT blocks?


And what does "select lightning effects" in that slide mean?