You have to wait until ps5 is announced. Probably a year or even more.
Sony Playstation Marketing: a quiet place in days gone?
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You have to wait until ps5 is announced. Probably a year or even more.
Yea i know, that's why this discussion (listening in) is interesting to me. The Xbox roadmap is fairly clear to me and so I've already concluded I'm moving forward with their next gen console, I may not even need to get it until the price drops on the stronger model; if I predict it correct with a lot of year 1-2 titles being transient between generations with Scorpio holding well atm. Though Ray Tracing might change my opinion of that.
I guess it comes down to wanting to be informed sooner or not caring and being comfortable with being informed much later.
If my voice can be heard earlier (as in I don't like the direction) I'd like for companies to take note before rubber stamping. IE. I don't want MS to move in the direction of VR as part of the base experience at all.
You seem to be putting a lot of trust in MS statements, despite their incredibly shaky history at being able to live up to their lofty claims.
lol, this place takes itself so seriously.
It wasn't a dig at anyone here and I apologise if I offended anyone - it was not my intention. My point was more about places like NeoGaf and Resetera where such posts and threads seem to find themselves and get blown out of proportion.
The thing is, regardless of how you all feel the fact remains Sony are still killing it with sales so where is this damage you keep going on about? As I said in my first post (I think it was) Sony has already won the mindset of gamers, any 'damage' by this quiet period is minimal and restricted to the hardcore (and incredibly small) segment of the market, no-one else cares.
It wasn't a dig at anyone here and I apologise if I offended anyone - it was not my intention. My point was more about places like NeoGaf and Resetera where such posts and threads seem to find themselves and get blown out of proportion.
The thing is, regardless of how you all feel the fact remains Sony are still killing it with sales so where is this damage you keep going on about? As I said in my first post (I think it was) Sony has already won the mindset of gamers, any 'damage' by this quiet period is minimal and restricted to the hardcore (and incredibly small) segment of the market, no-one else cares.
I would say the same to you, except the differences is that MS has stated this is what they are doing and slowly been ticking away at delivering it piece by piece. You only believe Sony is working on it but keeping silent on it.
I've been working with MS tools my entire career and had the opportunity to be at Build when Satya took over. That particular year was the exact year they opened Bash up on W10. And their tools were now being published at the same time on Mac. There was a lot of change happening at that Build for developers and it's only been more in that direction since.
I have a great deal of many friends that work at MS that verify the change the leadership leading to positive outcomes.
I've seen a great amount of change in MS overall as a company since the change in leadership.
I know when I see a difference in leadership and having worked with their tools for some time, there comes a big difference between trusting corporate communications, and seeing where MS is headed because that's how they want to change their monetization.
MS may not have had any impact on games this generation for Xbox but they walked away with some massive changes to the traditional console landscape.
a) supporting crossplay between console vendors (nintendo and xbox)
b) a netflix style subscription service
c) all exclusives now moving onto PC Windows Store
d) the play anywhere initiative that comes with dual license ownership
e) their exclusive titles now appearing on both Steam and Nintendo
These changes alone to their business model should help direct where they are headed, and the statements around the next Xbox, around the controllers etc, all obvious goals in the same direction of moving away from the traditional monetization methods, and much more aligned with how they now monetize at an enterprise level. It's only about users for them, and in particular a deep desire to acquire users at the cloud level.
I don't need to trust when I see an existing playbook that they are following.
It's entirely plausible that MS will _never_ own more marketshare in the traditional console sale sense then it does now (keeping distance second or falling to 3rd). But this new expansion of its software and subscriber services are a grab for new revenue it would otherwise not have access to if it didn't cannibalize some of its traditional roots.
the TLDR is, I trust MS to chase money more than I trust their marketing. Thus, I see their play of wanting to support infrastructures and companies as being a large priority, as well as being able to get as many people onto their platform while being hardware agnostic. If they could, I'm sure Phil would be pitching to Sony to host PSNow on XCloud. Why not, considering it's going to be exactly the same hardware. When their marketing aligns with their playbooks, I'm inclined to believe their marketing more.
That is their goal, they're doing it already with windows and such, and they will continue on the Xbox side of things.
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If there was one thing I wish sony did that would be vr portable console a la oculus quest. Make it also work with ps5 for enhanced graphics.
Another thing I wish sony did is to make that arm chip run all media/os stuff to make netflix&whatnot work in super low power mode with no fans on.
Third thing I wish is they would make super highend ps5 model, let it be 599$ or even more.
I'm one user out of millions. I doubt sony listens or cares about me so I don't care about them. If they do cool stuff I buy, if not I use my money for something else.
Another thing I wish sony did is to make that arm chip run all media/os stuff to make netflix&whatnot work in super low power mode with no fans on.
Third thing I wish is they would make super highend ps5 model, let it be 599$ or even more.
I'm one user out of millions. I doubt sony listens or cares about me so I don't care about them. If they do cool stuff I buy, if not I use my money for something else.
I point to my post here. Lack of visibility means the fans' eyes wander onto the alternative mores. It's about giving people less reasons to even think about thinking about possible considering anything other than PlayStation for their next console.
And MS won the previous generation, then got arrogant which let Sony capitalize and take the lead they have now. But just like MS, hubris takes over and consumers flip to the most pro consumer offering.
Regarding the big two and the earlier comment about bias, I'd say video game consumers go where they see the most value and aside from Nintendo are just as happy to buy your competitor if you rest on your laurels.
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Deleted member 11852
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You are overlooking some substantial Microsoft u-turns: Nokia/Windows Phone, PlaysForSure, Xbox One always online, vowing never to sell Xbox One without Kinnect. This week Microsoft announced their "always available" ebook store was closing.
Markets change and product strategies have to change with them. Stop readily gulping down what companies say and look at what companies do. I genuinely believe Microsoft are committed to their current strategy but I believed Apple was committed to delivering their Qi charger in 2018, the one they cancelled last week.
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Metal_Spirit
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Allow me to place some questions, or make some observations about those points:
a) Cross play!
Microsoft did more than to create Cross Play between Nintendo and Xbox. Microsoft ended up creating a universal Cross Play platform when Sony finally decided to enter the scheme.
This is kind of good!
Why kind? Because I only see this as good if the player has the possibility to allow or disallow certain platforms. For example, certain games have input disadvantages on certain platforms over others, or some platforms have hacks and cheats, like the PC, that may ruin my game. So I only see this as a really good thing if one has the possibilty to preserve the quality of multi player.
But we should ask one thing: Are the credits due to Microsoft?
If we go back in time, we see Sony Crossplaying since the PS2 era. And with PC, Nintendo, and mobile platforms. Microsoft were the ones that were denying Cross Play!
On the 360 era Microsoft denied Cross Play in several games, and even on The Xbox One era, the Cross Play between One and 360 was lacuster, hardly existing.
Microsoft even justified itself by saying that in their experiments, PC players with mouse and keyboard crushed Xbox players with a controller, and that reason was why they were denying Cross Play.
But now... things changed. Microsoft is no longer worried with that, and even invites others that suffer the same problem, ou have it worse, to join.
Isn't this a contradiction? Or does Microsoft expects Nintendo, and mobile users to add a Keyboard and mouse to their devices?
b) Netflix style subscription!
I have serious doubts about these services, and already posted about that.
When Netflix asks for 11.99€ for a HD streaming, how can Microsoft ask for 10 euros?
As I stated before, movies go to cinemas, then when cinema atraction drops, go to phisical and digital sales, and then when sales drop, go to subscription services. All services are in a chain, all obtaining extra profit, and the notion that a new services cuts on the previous one profits is present!
Games have no cinemas part, so they go straight to phisical and digital sales. Subscription services should appear later in life, when sales drop. But that's not the case with gamepass! Games appear on day one and subscriptions canibalize sales.
Is this profitable at 10 euros?
But more... Netflix infrastructure is mainly storage space. They do not need big CPUs, RAM or GPUs. But Microsoft does! Theoretically, with a new generation, Microsoft may have do dedicate up to 10 Tflops,16 GB RAM and a lot of CPU per session to a single user.
And Netflix asks for 11.99 euros, and Microsoft 10? Is this profitable?
Besides Netflix movies are not exactly Blockbusters quality. And mainly they deliver content over time, in series episodes. Is this what MIcrosoft will offer? Episodic content?
There are a lot of questions that remain about the profitability of these services, and if they will be a good thing for gamers, specially when other players enter the market and all start to keep their games on their services as exclusives, forcing people to subscrive several to get all the games they can get now.
c) Exclusives on PC Windows Store.
Debatable if a good thing, at least for them. I own a Xbox One and a PC. And for over some time now I almost stoped playing Microsoft exclusives on the Xbox. Why? Because I can get those games for the PC, get better performance and resolution, and play them online not paying for Live.
The need for a Microsoft console seems to be way inferior with this option available.
d)Play anywhere!
Accepting the games on PC as a good thing for the Xbox, this is a great move. Nothing to say about it!
e)Exclusives on Steam and Nintendo
What exclusives? These are not exclusives... on so many stores these are just Microsoft published games!
Note that in no way I'm pretending to start a consoles war. I could talk badly about sony moves too! That is not my point.
The point is that after those points you state that "These changes alone to their business model should help direct where they are headed...", and I do not see where they are headed. What I see is Microsoft turning everywhere to see what falls on their lap. But, the way I see it, they are far from a clear direction.
And the above moves are mostly questionable if they will end up beeing good for the consumer or the Xbox console.
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It seems that with their silence Sony is making both Microsoft and XBox fans pretty nervous.
Which to be honest is the embodiment of this thread.
Sony has been registering a number of patents for BC, but because the current CEO once said, while defending the PS4's lack of that feature, "it's something people request but don't use much", then it's instant FUD for "OMG no BC!!"
And now this concern trolling about all of PS5's games being remakes? That one is pretty spectacular, honestly.
Which to be honest is the embodiment of this thread.
Sony has been registering a number of patents for BC, but because the current CEO once said, while defending the PS4's lack of that feature, "it's something people request but don't use much", then it's instant FUD for "OMG no BC!!"
And now this concern trolling about all of PS5's games being remakes? That one is pretty spectacular, honestly.
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Deleted member 11852
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O/T here but this is a head scratcher for me. I do genuinely wonder if this is costing Microsoft and arm and leg and is a short term loss measure to gain good will and an increased customer base. We'll never know because of the way the Microsoft buries Xbox operation's financials in a wider division. The math just doesn't seem to add up; it's simply too good a deal for consumers.
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Deleted member 13524
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Netflix probably isn't a good comparison, since last I heard they're losing billions for spending so much more in licensing + production than what they're getting from subscriptions.
Based on what metric? They had a years head start a cheaper option, better versions of 3rd party games and a better online solution...yet last gen both Sony and MS came joint 2nd.
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While I do not disagree, there is no evidence to suggest people are thinking of moving outside a very small minority on forums...and even then if Sony announces a great PS5 and games/features all will be forgiven.
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Deleted member 11852
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Ignoring Netflix, how are publishers of new games selling 4x to 5x the cost of a monthly subscription being compensated? Microsoft's retailer cut for one game sale exceeds the cost of the monthly subscription. How is this sustainable economically?
There won't be any evidence until next gen consoles are out, by which it'll be too late to do something about it. What if sales of PS5 are down 20% next gen because a bunch of PS gamers have been eyeing Xbox the past couple of years before release and decide that they want to invest in a long-term future of a library that'll remain valid for many years to come?
And for those saying, "what if MS doesn't deliver," doesn't matter. You buy the hardware anyway expecting promises to be fulfilled. Same as voting for politicians. Same as buying a PS4 expecting some great PS2 titles to appear on the store with network play and trophies. If MS's pre-next-gen propaganda manages to woo buyers, even if they never deliver in the following years, they're still lost sales. That's why marketing doesn't rest. That's why regardless how well Sony is doing now regards sales, and how well they can be expected to do with PS5, they should still be making positive noises and presenting a strong future image.
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Deleted member 11852
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This is where we differ. I won't blindy believe rhetoric and PR, I factor in past actions.
I am very interested in the future that Microsoft promise for consoles but before I will make a choice (which will be no commitment, no penalty pre-order from Amazon) I expect both Microsoft and Sony have to set out their product plans and feature sets. So it'll be as informed as current gen.
Neither do I, but the mainstream does. You can see my personal cynicism for all Sony's great offerings over my years on this forum where yes, I bought a PS3 camera expecting great things. But few people wait and see for concrete evidence. Few people wanting a next gen console are going to wait two or three years to see if BC is actually maintained, or if game streaming actually is rolled out to their mobile platform of choice, etc.
