I'd say base PS4 games with boost mode. I mean if Sony goes with a hardware solution for BC then it's seems like you would be adding complexity to mimic both a base PS4 and PS4 Pro....but maybe not I dunno
Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [pre E3 2019]
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I'd say base PS4 games with boost mode. I mean if Sony goes with a hardware solution for BC then it's seems like you would be adding complexity to mimic both a base PS4 and PS4 Pro....but maybe not I dunno
Love_In_Rio
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Yes, the most recent one is about compressing vertex data. This plus primitive shaders related ones make me think all the Sony enhancements are related to the front end and crunching polygons.
Rootax
Veteran
+1 on that.
Surely as pro plays PS4 you effectively get that for free (assuming you nail the Pro implementation)?
Pro shuts down half of its GPU and downclocks CPU/GPU/ram to mimic base PS4. In boost mode, it still shuts down half of the GPU but does not downclock it.
So, for complete emulation of PS4 functionality, they will need three separate PS4 states - base, boost, pro. And if boost or pro are missing, people will for sure bitch about it.
I see, shutting down portions whilst also changing clocks does seemt to add a non trivial amount of work and even more testing
Is boost mode ever a bad thing? If not they can reduce one state, or implement turbo boost, CU count limit at PS5 clocks instead.
HBRU
Regular
I think limiting BC to ps4pro has also the advantage of letting (1) some remaster market... (2) don't flood the used console market with too many ps4 so keeping the value of it a bit higher for longer...many may keep it to play some old titles they own (3) keep the production of maybe a cheap 7nm p4pro
hmm. looks like the leaks are starting to find their way out, whether true or false, better make my last prediction before things get obvious by GDC.
Custom x86 8 Core Processor (joint developed with MS)
Custom GPU 6-7 TF (joint developed with MS) Feature Level 6_4 / 6_5 hardware support (so that should include DXR + Direct ML; though DirectML shouldn't require any AFAIK)
12-16 GB of GDDR6
1 TB Storage
UHD
The goals for custom is extremely low power profile, to be leveraged for multiple verticals; Surface Mobile to Surface Desktop, Hololens type devices, wireless VR device, Streaming/Data Center, Console.
Exploit effective binning and scaling as required across the verticals, order chips in massive volume to bring costs down, goals are for low power but to have access to a high end feature set.
I'm not saying it's not Navi or Zen, it could be, or heavily customized variants of it. Think Apple and their A1-A10 chips being fully customized ARM.
Link To Publication
- Jason Gregory Lead Engine Development @ Naughty Dog
You guys can thank @Scott_Arm for finding these, he just loves reading these types of books.
I believe we've already seen the beginning of it in the X1X, but the wording is vague. Given what is written above, I would give Jez a bit more space from our previous discussions #17. It is as MS provides, a Custom 8 Core processor.
Takes a lot longer to customize, could lend some credence why they needed an extra year on X1X and the higher price points even though they could have done something similar as Sony did with 4Pro. But more importantly draws into some really weird and terrible comms from microsoft early during Scorpio;
On the flip side, their devkit supports some nifty features that may also require customization. Things like using that one devkit to profile both X1 and X1X performance. That can't be easy to do either.
Anyhoo, it's not much, so don't dive into Wonderland, just wanted to get out that I think looking at Navi and Zen as basis to guess feature and performance spec of X2 may not be helpful. But I don't think it's secret sauce that will necessarily let it out perform Navi or Zen, they just want something that will suit their needs for their entire line of devices that they want to sell. This is an effective way to get that stuff cheaper than sourcing intel for surface, and all these different manufacturers for all their products.
Custom x86 8 Core Processor (joint developed with MS)
Custom GPU 6-7 TF (joint developed with MS) Feature Level 6_4 / 6_5 hardware support (so that should include DXR + Direct ML; though DirectML shouldn't require any AFAIK)
12-16 GB of GDDR6
1 TB Storage
UHD
The goals for custom is extremely low power profile, to be leveraged for multiple verticals; Surface Mobile to Surface Desktop, Hololens type devices, wireless VR device, Streaming/Data Center, Console.
Exploit effective binning and scaling as required across the verticals, order chips in massive volume to bring costs down, goals are for low power but to have access to a high end feature set.
I'm not saying it's not Navi or Zen, it could be, or heavily customized variants of it. Think Apple and their A1-A10 chips being fully customized ARM.
Link To Publication
Game Engine Architecture Third Edition
- Jason Gregory Lead Engine Development @ Naughty Dog
You guys can thank @Scott_Arm for finding these, he just loves reading these types of books.
I believe we've already seen the beginning of it in the X1X, but the wording is vague. Given what is written above, I would give Jez a bit more space from our previous discussions #17. It is as MS provides, a Custom 8 Core processor.
Takes a lot longer to customize, could lend some credence why they needed an extra year on X1X and the higher price points even though they could have done something similar as Sony did with 4Pro. But more importantly draws into some really weird and terrible comms from microsoft early during Scorpio;
- ranging from being open to supporting exclusives
- forward compatibility/rolling generations
- The sudden support for high frame rate and VRR
- M+KB support
- At one point wanting to support VR
- to the developers of Ori indicating that it was a true generational leap
- the devkit supports 24 GB of RAM IIRC
On the flip side, their devkit supports some nifty features that may also require customization. Things like using that one devkit to profile both X1 and X1X performance. That can't be easy to do either.
Anyhoo, it's not much, so don't dive into Wonderland, just wanted to get out that I think looking at Navi and Zen as basis to guess feature and performance spec of X2 may not be helpful. But I don't think it's secret sauce that will necessarily let it out perform Navi or Zen, they just want something that will suit their needs for their entire line of devices that they want to sell. This is an effective way to get that stuff cheaper than sourcing intel for surface, and all these different manufacturers for all their products.
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How likely is it that AMD make the changes to their front-end with Navi that they are able to scale GPUs based on it past 64 CUs? Given what Vega 20 turned out to be, it would seem to me that this is a necessary step to open a path forward. Frequency scaling/efficiency improvements are only going to get you so far.
Higher TF numbers might be more reasonably within reach for next-gen consoles if you can achieve them by going wider instead of faster and I do believe that Vega 20s FP64 support is bloating the size of it's CUs leaving a small window where Navi could fit more CUs within the same space (thinking 68 to 76 here inclusive of 4 that will be disabled for yields for PS5). Of course, if Navi gains additional capabilities within it's CUs that bloat them in a similar way this doesn't apply.
For reference: 72 active CUs @ 1.09 GHz gets you over the 10TF mark while 64 active CUs requires 1.23 GHz to achieve that.
Higher TF numbers might be more reasonably within reach for next-gen consoles if you can achieve them by going wider instead of faster and I do believe that Vega 20s FP64 support is bloating the size of it's CUs leaving a small window where Navi could fit more CUs within the same space (thinking 68 to 76 here inclusive of 4 that will be disabled for yields for PS5). Of course, if Navi gains additional capabilities within it's CUs that bloat them in a similar way this doesn't apply.
For reference: 72 active CUs @ 1.09 GHz gets you over the 10TF mark while 64 active CUs requires 1.23 GHz to achieve that.
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New leak.
Smells like that pungent BS you have smelled from the farm if you ask me.
But if a 8tf PS5 is true then it's DOA especially against a 12tf Anaconda.
Smells like that pungent BS you have smelled from the farm if you ask me.
But if a 8tf PS5 is true then it's DOA especially against a 12tf Anaconda.
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A verified guy on resetera confirm part of the hardware leak but not the acquisition part maybe only negociation. We will know more during and after GDC 2019.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/mi...h-good-intentions.94058/page-24#post-17149390
What do you mean "new" leak....that was posted 8 days ago
it seems some of the information are true...
PS5 will sell better then xbox, it doesnt matter what kind of hardware is in there. Its the brand that sells not the hardware. PS2 was the weakest but sold the best, and not only because it came abit earlier.
That is if those TF numbers are true, and if they mean anything anyway. Tflops dont always mean better performance see nvidia vs amd.
Next consoles are going to have RT, theres no way to not to.
anexanhume
Veteran
If anything is true, I hope it’s the 12TF. That’s the beginning of my range for high-end expectations.
Yes, you have to widen up the front end as AMD explained to Ian Cutress. Also, shifting to the architecture described in the new patent, or variable wavefront sizing could help resource utilization.
Yes, you have to widen up the front end as AMD explained to Ian Cutress. Also, shifting to the architecture described in the new patent, or variable wavefront sizing could help resource utilization.
Love_In_Rio
Veteran
Here you would have more than a -1 sales for PS5 if you have the same graphics at 4K on a XBOX than at whatever 1440p> resolution with PS5. And people who doesnt care about resolutions will get the 249 dollars full hd alternative.
MS is is being clever with the sandwich strategy, only way I can see Sony fight it is imitating it.
D
Deleted member 13524
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I'm looking at Lockhart and thinking it might be a Surface-sized 1080p mobile game console.
If 12 TFLOPs are needed for 4K, then 4 TFLOPs may be good for same general quality in a small screen at FHD.
4 TFLOPs is only 32 CUs at 1GHz, and at 7nm such a GPU could be tiny (~120mm^2 worth of GPU in a ~200mm^2 SoC?) and sip power. 12GB GDDR6 could come in the form of 3*32bit / 96bit width using 6 chips in clamshell pairs, for ~170GB/s total bandwidth.
Regardless, if Lockhart exists with those specs then it's a total overkill as "streaming console", as that could be doable with a 2W SoC in a $50 box.
Sony can fuck up enough to get itself into trouble in any gen.
If 12 TFLOPs are needed for 4K, then 4 TFLOPs may be good for same general quality in a small screen at FHD.
4 TFLOPs is only 32 CUs at 1GHz, and at 7nm such a GPU could be tiny (~120mm^2 worth of GPU in a ~200mm^2 SoC?) and sip power. 12GB GDDR6 could come in the form of 3*32bit / 96bit width using 6 chips in clamshell pairs, for ~170GB/s total bandwidth.
Regardless, if Lockhart exists with those specs then it's a total overkill as "streaming console", as that could be doable with a 2W SoC in a $50 box.
The PS3 didn't sell better than the X360. That's not an accurate assessment.
Sony can fuck up enough to get itself into trouble in any gen.
Looking at it, the PS5 @ 399 dollars is right in the middle, most ppl that buy these things arent into specs. On resetera/internet forums people want badly ray tracing hardware though.
RT on MS's next console means a boost in the pc market too, as their games are cross platform as it should be. Infinite is going to look amazing. On E3 the helmet showed some RT relfections, could have been a hint?
PS3 was both (very) expensive and underperformed, released over a year later too. If those rumors are true, PS5 was targeted late 2019, whilst next xbox late 2020, almost two years from now. Those specs are abit dated by then thinkng of the timeframe.
Agree, assumed it was insider info this time around?
Someone linked this on resetera, for the people getting exited about RT, hope its false.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-wont-offer-ray-tracing/
RT on MS's next console means a boost in the pc market too, as their games are cross platform as it should be. Infinite is going to look amazing. On E3 the helmet showed some RT relfections, could have been a hint?
PS3 was both (very) expensive and underperformed, released over a year later too. If those rumors are true, PS5 was targeted late 2019, whilst next xbox late 2020, almost two years from now. Those specs are abit dated by then thinkng of the timeframe.
Agree, assumed it was insider info this time around?
Someone linked this on resetera, for the people getting exited about RT, hope its false.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-wont-offer-ray-tracing/
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