Red Dead Redemption 2

The movement is not outdated. It's just prioritizing quality over responsiveness. That's always the trade off in animation. This was a conscious choice on their part. Some companies are working on things like motion-matching to improve quality without sacrificing responsiveness. RDR2 has the best animations I've seen in a game, but it comes at a cost
Just looking back to mechwarrior 2/mercenaries - the mouse controlled the torso movement, but because they didn't have an animation system, it could snap shoot from left to right, it looked super off, and I get why the animation system directly combats the gameplay mechanics. It stops you from being able to 'just blow stuff up' which is exactly what we're used to.

RDR gameplay, a big part of it is information. Reactive gameplay doesn't work as well. Planning improves your success rate.
 
Controls are trash.

Not only are the sluggish and work against you are every turn, but the button scheme is convoluted. Let me switch my item, humm LB + LTS to the area I want, then RT to switch item and then keep the LTS in the right area and release! Simple right? Is this a QTE or a menu?

The f@#$ing wanted system is rediculously dumb. I was in the bad guy hideout alone, pick up something, crime witnessed! By who? I once got jumped by bandits and fought them off only to have "horse cruelty" crime observed as I rode off. WTF? My favorite is bumping into a person in town and then getting a wanted level from it. Is this the wild west?

Also what is with the prices of stuff? You gamble for pennies, yet a bowl of oatmeal is $3? That is $89 in 2017 money according to an online calculator. Doesn't R* have any basic research into 1899?A stagecoach ride is $7-$14? It should come with a few hookers...
 
I imagine the grin on R* devs faces as they released this game knowing how good it can look and how little they had shown of it before release.
I can also imagine other devs pulling their hair out now that they've seen the level where R* raised the bar to.
A bit OT but Playdead did this on a whole other level with Inside. 6 years of development, Announced June 2014 , released June 2016 : one single f@/kng trailer, no previews, no hands-on, no marketing, nothing at all...and that damn thing is a masterpiece.
 
A bit OT but Playdead did this on a whole other level with Inside. 6 years of development, Announced June 2014 , released June 2016 : one single f@/kng trailer, no previews, no hands-on, no marketing, nothing at all...and that damn thing is a masterpiece.
Curiously the rendering choices of RDR2 reminded me exactly of inside. Both games relied on and invested heavily in lighting, shadowing and volumetric atmospherics. Also, both games relied on TAA to clean up a relatively noisy render and just accepted the inherent softness that causes.
 
Just looking back to mechwarrior 2/mercenaries - the mouse controlled the torso movement, but because they didn't have an animation system, it could snap shoot from left to right, it looked super off, and I get why the animation system directly combats the gameplay mechanics. It stops you from being able to 'just blow stuff up' which is exactly what we're used to.

RDR gameplay, a big part of it is information. Reactive gameplay doesn't work as well. Planning improves your success rate.

I'd say they're sacrificing gameplay for presentation. It's always a balancing act, and in a film-like game such as Detroit I'm fine with that. Considering how this is not a game like Detroit, I do find the balancing rather off. Also funny how everyone usually cries about framerates, but when a particularly hyped game comes along, even if it brings a 500ms delay to certain actions with it, everything's suddenly forgiven and forgotten.

So yes, outdated is probably the wrong description. In a landscape where certain journos can barely make it past tutorial sections, a landscape in which terms like game, or challenge, or precision are considered remnants of a toxic culture, these type of indirect controls are probably welcomed unless they're flying right over their heads anyway.
 
Curiously the rendering choices of RDR2 reminded me exactly of inside. Both games relied on and invested heavily in lighting, shadowing and volumetric atmospherics. Also, both games relied on TAA to clean up a relatively noisy render and just accepted the inherent softness that causes.
Super OT...but Yup! Inside's use of TRAA is exceptional. The work done to heavily modify Unity (which at the time was far from what it is now..) was insane.
Must Read presentations for anybody remotely interested in real time 3D Graphics:

Inside Temporal Reprojection AA (47 slides): https://gdcvault.com/play/1022970/Temporal-Reprojection-Anti-Aliasing-in

Low Complexity, High Fidelity - INSIDE Rendering (187 slides!) https://gdcvault.com/play/1023002/Low-Complexity-High-Fidelity-INSIDE

Last but not least a whole 115 slides presentation about the "end" of the game... : https://gdcvault.com/play/1024472/Huddle-up-Making-the-SPOILER
 
I was in the bad guy hideout alone, pick up something, crime witnessed! By who? I once got jumped by bandits and fought them off only to have "horse cruelty" crime observed as I rode off. WTF?

I've seen this and each and every time it can be attributed to civilians working in the camp. When the shooting starts, they either run off (and report crime, not the crime of the bandits but your crime against criminals!) or find cover and hide and aren't visible on the map but they see you just fine. They are also olympic athletes with their ability to run into town and report a crime, then the olympic athlete lawmen mount their racehorses to rush to the scene quicker the Los Santos SWAT teams. Hmm.. :runaway:

My favorite is bumping into a person in town and then getting a wanted level from it. Is this the wild west?

It's 1897, not fifty years earlier. One of the themes of the game the encroachment of civilisation into the frontier. It's why moving beyond a mild gallop in towns will have people yell at you and while running around in towns will have people comment. In Chapter I Arthur question the incredulity of moving East into "civilisation" (spoken like the mere word is profanity) when Dutch sets that direction as where they are going.

There are Sheriffs, Country lawmen, Federal Lawman, Pinkertons and Bounty Hunters. If you recall from the original RDR John oft spoken civilisation was "brutal for free men" (outlaws) because it was uncompromising. It was like a rubber-band snapping back so far in the opposite direction of what was effectively anarchy.

That said, the wanted system is poorly explained. Like how merely putting a mask on will not fully conceal your identify when performing crimes and that you really need to don a new outfit and use a different horse - because people aren't idiots. If you've been riding around on the same horse in the same clothes for a week, putting a bandana over your face won't fool anybody. :nope:

The 'rules' of the game need to be clearer. :yep2:
 
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I'd say they're sacrificing gameplay for presentation. It's always a balancing act, and in a film-like game such as Detroit I'm fine with that. Considering how this is not a game like Detroit, I do find the balancing rather off. Also funny how everyone usually cries about framerates, but when a particularly hyped game comes along, even if it brings a 500ms delay to certain actions with it, everything's suddenly forgiven and forgotten.

So yes, outdated is probably the wrong description. In a landscape where certain journos can barely make it past tutorial sections, a landscape in which terms like game, or challenge, or precision are considered remnants of a toxic culture, these type of indirect controls are probably welcomed unless they're flying right over their heads anyway.
lol it's one perspective. I do struggle with the the controls, but that's also sort of realistic in a sense. When you engage dead-eye, your combat abilities to wipe shit out happens. Which sort of bypasses the clunky controls.
 
I've seen this and each and every time it can be attributed to civilians working in the camp. When the shooting starts, they either run off (and report crime, not the crime of the bandits but your crime against criminals!) or find cover and hide and aren't visible on the map but they see you just fine. They are also olympic athletes with their ability to run into town and report a crime, then the olympic athlete lawmen mount their racehorses to rush to the scene quicker the Los Santos SWAT teams. Hmm.. :runaway:



It's 1987, not fifty years earlier. One of the themes of the game the encroachment of civilisation into the frontier. It's why moving beyond a mild gallop in towns will have people yell at you and while running around in towns will have people comment. In Chapter I Arthur question the incredulity of moving East into "civilisation" (spoken like the mere word is profanity) when Dutch sets that direction as where they are going.

There are Sheriffs, Country lawmen, Federal Lawman, Pinkertons and Bounty Hunters. If you recall from the original RDR John oft spoken civilisation was "brutal for free men" (outlaws) because it was uncompromising. It was like a rubber-band snapping back so far in the opposite direction of what was effectively anarchy.

That said, the wanted system is poorly explained. Like how merely putting a mask on will not fully conceal your identify when performing crimes and that you really need to don a new outfit and use a different horse - because people aren't idiots. If you're been riding around on the same horse in the same clothes for a week, putting a bandana over your mouse won't fool anybody. :nope:

The 'rules' of the game need to be clearer. :yep2:
I've had NPCs 'suicide' infront of my horse while trotting in town. I'ts aggravating, and it's one of those things where I feel like getting off the horse and leading it to a hitch might be easier to avoid these problems.
 
I've had NPCs 'suicide' infront of my horse while trotting in town. I'ts aggravating, and it's one of those things where I feel like getting off the horse and leading it to a hitch might be easier to avoid these problems.

It would and I've encountered the same frustration that I think is because you expect riders and horses to have right of way in a 'street' like modern times but it wasn't like that back then. To see for yourself just stand in the street in RDR2 and see how riders and carriages react to 'pedestrians'. Riders and carriages always give right of way to pedestrians, which is the opposite of GTA where a pedestrian in the street will get yelled at by drivers.

These are different times. :yep2: Again, very much an overbearing theme of the game. It's not a 'cowboy' game set in the 'wild' west, it's different.
 
So in America ca. 1900, people were too stupid to get out of the way of a trotting horse? By the way, I don't think that's a big deal. A.I.s will be A.I,s, but the length to which people will go in order to excuse anything and everything is rather amusing.
 
So in America ca. 1900, people were too stupid to get out of the way of a trotting horse? By the way, I don't think that's a big deal. A.I.s will be A.I,s, but the length to which people will go in order to excuse anything and everything is rather amusing.
There's no excusing. It's annoying AF.

The game has imo. can be so meticulous and chorish, that it's motivated me to do more chores at home instead of doing chores in the game. Why oil my gun and hunt for game, when I can be changing my tires and sharpening my kitchen knives.

I dunno, it's all there, some people love that stuff, but I"ll be sticking to the main storyline.
 
I'd say they're sacrificing gameplay for presentation. It's always a balancing act, and in a film-like game such as Detroit I'm fine with that. Considering how this is not a game like Detroit, I do find the balancing rather off. Also funny how everyone usually cries about framerates, but when a particularly hyped game comes along, even if it brings a 500ms delay to certain actions with it, everything's suddenly forgiven and forgotten.

So yes, outdated is probably the wrong description. In a landscape where certain journos can barely make it past tutorial sections, a landscape in which terms like game, or challenge, or precision are considered remnants of a toxic culture, these type of indirect controls are probably welcomed unless they're flying right over their heads anyway.

I completely agree...except for: it is imo outdated. The extreme hype graphical beasts get from press is strong, combine this with a R* game and people even defend bad gameplay and controls...in a game, lol :LOL:
 
The movement is not outdated. It's just prioritizing quality over responsiveness. That's always the trade off in animation. This was a conscious choice on their part. Some companies are working on things like motion-matching to improve quality without sacrificing responsiveness. RDR2 has the best animations I've seen in a game, but it comes at a cost

You can have both through. Uncharted/TLL and Spiderman come to my mind.

Overall, the game is outstanding, but it can't be the best everywhere.
 
As game engines become more and more advanced, and contextual scripting and interactions screens/U.I. become more complex, hopefully things like voice interactions (mic cues) can be used more often in games. It would resolve some of the cumbersome interactions associated with RPG based games. I have seen and used PC voice-mic mods in RPG & RPG-like games on making life easier.
 
You can have both through. Uncharted/TLL and Spiderman come to my mind.

Overall, the game is outstanding, but it can't be the best everywhere.

What's best for you is not going to be what's best for me. It is a known problem that responsive animation comes at the cost of complexity in movement and transitions. There is no perfect animation system that can do both - not RDR2, not Uncharted, not Spiderman. Unless motion-matching works out, or some other new animation system, this problem will remain. Did RDR2 strike the right balance? Obviously for many people the answer is no. I just view it as an artistic choice that comes with pros and cons. If I were playing a twitch shooter with animation like this, it would probably drive me up the wall. For this game, it's not so much of a problem for me. I would be interested in playing it on PC later, at a much higher frame rate, to see how it feels by comparison.
 
drake is responsive but moves like a one man army hero from action movies, it's not realistic, you can't jump from 5 meters height on ennemies and punch them without harming yourself.

That was a very disturbing kill:

 
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