Digital Foundry Retro Discussion [2018 - 2020]

[Mobius1aic]

Wasnt the x1800xt 270gflops?
A x1900xt is about 400+ gflops, and more advanced then x1800.

The X1900XTX has 4x the pixel shaders, so yeah, that puts it at 426 GFLOPS. The 270 GFLOPS for the X1800XT probably includes latent OPs not part of the VS and PS. I've seen 500 and 600+ GFLOPS estimates for the X1900XTX, which are likely the same kind of deal. Pretty typical of back then, remember the 2TFLOP numbers spat out for the PS3?

For cpu FX60 was quite speedy for its time but intel set itself apart with its C2D and C2Q series.

C2D spanked Athlon 64 x2s pretty hard. Boy was that out of left field when it happened.

If optimized sure BF3 could run on a c2d setup. I mean its even lower then lower settings on pc on 360, with that framerate and lower player counts.

My roommate back in 2011 was running BF3 on an E8400. Ran OK but decently big MP games (32+ Players) would tank the CPU hard. Hell, my Phenom II x4 had some issues as well.

X360 had impressive hw for its time sure, but got outpaced rather quickly, if not allready at launch, not talking price/performance ratio.

PS2 seemed to hold the performance position longer?

At launch Xenos was pretty much the best GPU out there for GFLOPS/pixel rendered until the X1900s came out. Any competitiveness from X1800s and 7800 GTXs would be from early 360 to PC ports or not getting any added optimizatons. Last drivers I see for the X1000s were surprisingly in 2010, but once the first unified shader GPUs appeared, it was all over. Interestingly though, the X1900XTX could play games for a while thanks to that insane pixel shader power (ATi had predicted correct) despite even early mainstream unified shader cards like the 2600XT (>200 GFLOPS) putting up a good showing against the X1900XTX from the start. Unified was the future and most games reflected that pretty quick.

Interesting things with the X1900 series could happen though. I've seen videos of Crysis 2 being ran on X1900s and X1600s with hacks as the game only technically supported unified shader cards. Pretty damn impressive for obsolete GPUs but much is owned to ATi's inclusion of so many pixel shaders.

I really want to get my hands on an X1800XT just to see how well it compares to my X1600XT and 2600XT.

 

[vipa899]

The X1900XTX has 4x the pixel shaders, so yeah, that puts it at 426 GFLOPS. The 270 GFLOPS for the X1800XT probably includes latent OPs not part of the VS and PS. I've seen 500 and 600+ GFLOPS estimates for the X1900XTX, which are likely the same kind of deal. Pretty typical of back then, remember the 2TFLOP numbers spat out for the PS3?



C2D spanked Athlon 64 x2s pretty hard. Boy was that out of left field when it happened.



My roommate back in 2011 was running BF3 on an E8400. Ran OK but decently big MP games (32+ Players) would tank the CPU hard. Hell, my Phenom II x4 had some issues as well.



At launch Xenos was pretty much the best GPU out there for GFLOPS/pixel rendered until the X1900s came out. Any competitiveness from X1800s and 7800 GTXs would be from early 360 to PC ports or not getting any added optimizatons. Last drivers I see for the X1000s were surprisingly in 2010, but once the first unified shader GPUs appeared, it was all over. Interestingly though, the X1900XTX could play games for a while thanks to that insane pixel shader power (ATi had predicted correct) despite even early mainstream unified shader cards like the 2600XT (>200 GFLOPS) putting up a good showing against the X1900XTX from the start. Unified was the future and most games reflected that pretty quick.

Interesting things with the X1900 series could happen though. I've seen videos of Crysis 2 being ran on X1900s and X1600s with hacks as the game only technically supported unified shader cards. Pretty damn impressive for obsolete GPUs but much is owned to ATi's inclusion of so many pixel shaders.

I played BF3 on PS3, which i assume isnt that much different from the 360, from my experience it just isnt BF3 anymore like that, game was really too advanced for the 7th gen. Its lower then lowest settings on pc for most, at a framerate that shouldnt be allowed for MP and the slot limit on servers.
Played BF3 on a Q6600 and ran fine, even on higher settings. BF3 on pc is almost a different game though, not limited to 24 isnt just BF as it should be. Playing BF since 1942 in 2002, all the way to BF4.
Tells me the CPUs of the PS3 and 360 werent that fast even for their time, as BF multiplayer is mostly if not just CPU limited, even today. A 2006 cpu handling it fine though.

Yeah Intel really took the lead with C2D and that never really changed.

Still have a powercolor X1900XTX 512mb sitting on a 939 amd chipset with FX55 (single core!), 4GB ram, the thing handled almost everything, even Bioshock at accepteble performance/settings. Could keep up with the 360 pretty well.
Have another club3d X1950 laying too

 

[Mobius1aic]

I went looking deeper at Radeon 2600XT performance where X1900 series benchs were also listed, and it looks like the X1900s were doing much better than I originally thought. The real outliers were true "nextgen" titles like Rainbow Six: Vegas, obviously coded for the 360 from the get-go, and henceforth run like banshees on ATi's Radeon 2000 series, with the 2900XT even hanging with the venerable 8800GTX.

Getting back to the 360, I think it really was not just Xenos, but the heavy vector focus on Xenon that gave it legs to last the generation. Games really upped the ante in terms of animation, physics and collision by 2013. Simply throwing in a dual core PowerPC 970 wouldn't have done the job as well.

 

[Cyan]

New DF Retro Extra video, featuring some of the favourite games of John ever, the Sonic series. In the video he shows the creations of modern developers who are versioning Sonic games using their skills, sometimes making Sonic games from the ground up.

The games have been shown at SAGE 2018. SAGE is an annual festival where developers share their imagination and conceptions of platform games based on Sonic. Enjoy!

 

[Cyan]

From the list of games John Linneman mentions in the video, one of the games that I liked the most is Super Mario Flashback -which is also among John’s favourites-. The game can be downloaded here:

http://smflashback.byethost15.com/?i=1

 

[Cyan]

DF Retro x modern, Megaman 11. Like the back of the box says "Eleventh time's the charm".

From what John says in the review, it almost feels like a classic Megaman game.

 

[Cyan]

!

https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/library/pdf/printing_annual/2018/ssh_ar18e_web.pdf

Sega has published some data of their franchises' sales.

Acquired Licenses
Megami Tensei (since 1987) – Aprox. 12,4 millions (packaged / digital)
Persona (since 1996) – Aprox. 9,3 millions (packaged / digital)
Etrian Odyssey (since 2007) Aprox. 1,9 millions (units / digital)
Total War (since 2000) – Aprox. 22 millions (units / digital)
Football Manager (since 2005) – Aprox. 18,1 millions (units / downloads)


Own Licenses
Sonic the Hedgehog (since 1991 to FY3/2018 ) – Aprox. 800 millions (units / downloads / arcade / pachinko)
Puyo Puyo (since 1991) – Aprox. 27 millions (units / downloads / ID)
Yakuza (since 2005) – Aprox. 11 millions (units / downloads)
Aladdin (since 1989) – Aprox. 570,000
Beast King (since 2001) – Aprox. 490,000
Phantasy Star (since 1987) – Aprox. 5 millions
Chain Chronicle (since 2013) – Aprox. 15 millions


Licenses from 3rd parties
Sega feat. Hatsune Miku Project (since 2009) – Aprox. 6 millions
Hokuto no Ken (since 2002) – Aprox. 2.74 millions
Souten no Ken (since 2009) – Aprox. 440.000 units

 

[phoenix_chipset]

Mega man 11 looks great, awesome style and graphics. I never properly played a mega man but i'm definitely getting this

 

[Cyan]

Mega man 11 looks great, awesome style and graphics. I never properly played a mega man but i'm definitely getting this

Mega Man games have excellently simple mechanics. You beat some levels, defeat a boss, acquire that boss main power and can use those acquired powers to defeat other bosses in a strategic way. Also, the scroll of the game, in the NES version -having the game pausing while Megaman was hanging in the air- was pretty cool.

On a different, new DF video featuring Shenmue, a cancelled remake of the game.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-segas-cancelled-shenmue-remake

Note that in the video, John says that we might never know the "business decision" behind the fact that Sega got the remake canned. :smile2:However, something that puzzles me is the fact that in the previous post about the sales of Sega franchises, Shenmue is nowhere to be seen.

 

[Cyan]

1993 vs 2018

-thanks Vitolo-

 

[see colon]

Rocks on the mountain in 1993 have more defined texture. Also, weather effects are more realistic.

 

[milk]

I noticed they reduced the number of signs pointing to the right in the modern version. Is this a trade-off they had to made to run it at modern resolutions?

 

[eloic]

I noticed they reduced the number of signs pointing to the right in the modern version. Is this a trade-off they had to made to run it at modern resolutions?

It's a well-known issue related to the the limited amount of SPSs in the engine. I think Nvidia worked hard to improve this performance in the new Turing cards.

Spoiler

SPS = Signs Per Screen.

 

[Cyan]

Rocks on the mountain in 1993 have more defined texture. Also, weather effects are more realistic.

a friend of mine asked his 3 years old daughter which images was her favourite, and she replied that the top one.

I noticed they reduced the number of signs pointing to the right in the modern version. Is this a trade-off they had to made to run it at modern resolutions?

hahahah, I like how you think there.

It's a well-known issue related to the the limited amount of SPSs in the engine. I think Nvidia worked hard to improve this performance in the new Turing cards.

Spoiler

SPS = Signs Per Screen.

juasjuasjuas, also nice one.

 

[Nesh]

what game is the one at the top?

 

[Nesh]

On a different, new DF video featuring Shenmue, a cancelled remake of the game.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-segas-cancelled-shenmue-remake

Note that in the video, John says that we might never know the "business decision" behind the fact that Sega got the remake canned. :smile2:However, something that puzzles me is the fact that in the previous post about the sales of Sega franchises, Shenmue is nowhere to be seen.

God damn it!! Why??

 

[Cyan]

what game is the one at the top?

XJ220

 

[Cyan]

talking of magazines, two of the more emblematic magazines of the British landscape, are going to shut their doors next month.

This month's issues of GamesMaster and Games TM will be their last
Multi-format gaming brands had over 40 years of combined shelf-life

MCV's parent company Future plc informed us today that GamesMaster and Games TM magazines will be closing this month, with their next issues being their last.

"Despite the company's strong performance overall, unfortunately Games TM and GamesMaster are no longer profitable parts of the business, which means that their next issues, on sale November 1st, will be the final editions," said Tony Mott, brand director of games.

The magazines had long and storied histories. GamesMaster dates back to 1993; while Games TM has been running since 2002, and is a month short of its sixteenth birthday. Their closure leaves Future’s Edge magazine as the last, long-running proponent in the multi-format games space.

Mott told us: “The decision was an extremely difficult one, but everyone here is enormously proud of what the magazines have achieved in their lifetimes – an incredible 25 years in GamesMaster's case – and we are currently redeploying affected staff within the company."

Of course, there will be many freelancers out there who are also affected by the closures.

GamesMaster was based around the TV show of the same name, and ended up outliving its namesake by some 20 years. The magazine's final editor, Robin Valentine, told MCV: "GamesMaster was very close to my heart, and I'm incredibly sad to see it go. For over 25 years it was a place to really celebrate video games, and its uniquely passionate and positive fanbase was testament to how much that resonated. I was so lucky to get to be a part of that, even if it turned out to be the final part."

Games TM’s classy presentation showed games in all their glory, and while the magazine switched around publishers over the years, it spent a good ten years with Imagine, which was acquired by Future back in 2016.

https://www.mcvuk.com/business/this-months-issues-of-gamesmaster-and-games-tm-will-be-their-last

 

[Cyan]

Sonic 2 , arcade version -yes, Megaplay was an arcade machine based on the Megadrive- beaten with a single credit -comments in spanish-.

Aside from a few different bugs, the arcade (Megaplay) version of Sonic 2 also doesn't have a timer, which makes things easier, but also you get less lives, so it can be more complicated. It is an arcade after all.

 

[Nesh]

Are you the one playing?