What framerate will next-gen target? *spawn

What framerates will next-gen games target?

  • VRR (Variable Refresh Rate)

    Votes: 15 30.6%
  • 30ps

    Votes: 23 46.9%
  • 60ps

    Votes: 26 53.1%
  • 90fps

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • 120fps

    Votes: 1 2.0%

  • Total voters
    49
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I doubt anything will be mandated, but 30fps games are going to feel like shit if there are more and more 60fps games, and even some 120fps games.

Hell, I'm starting to feel that 60 Hz is inadequate and I don't even own a greater than 60 Hz display. It's only from occasionally watching games and playing games on a friend's setup. It's so smooth and the detail is great in motion.

I come back to my 60 Hz display and play games at 60 Hz and now I'm noticing the judder and stutter compared to 120 Hz. Argh, I'm going to have to stop going over to his house to try out new games. :p

Regards,
SB
 
@Silent_Buddha 60Hz is definitely the bare minimum. I honestly think any game that's not 60Hz is unacceptable. 30Hz is high persistence, high judder and high input lag. All of those things are terrible for gaming. As you said, all of those problems are still real at 60Hz, but it is a very noticeable improvement. With 120Hz tvs coming out, and an abundance of 120Hz monitors, games should target 4k60 and 1080p120 next gen.
 
Gonna stay the same. Judging by what's selling, the vast majority of the gaming populace doesn't seem to have a problem with 30fps games. I mean how are developers even supposed to pull off feeding displays with 4 times the resolution at double the fr while still providing a visual boost over last gen you can actually spot without the help of digital foundry.
 
A lot of dreamers here on B3D it seems :LOL:. Mandating 60fps as base will absolutely slaughter half if not most game developers out there whom are having a hard enough time trying to get their games looking up to scratch, forget about ND quality. The amount of sacrifices you have to make to get that framerate is insane while still offering a generation visual leap at what 4k? Nothing is getting mandated guys, period. There will be more options tho, 60fps peasant res/visuals mode might become more prevalent. Rest assured the 4k/30fps mode will not go away any time soon.
 
Of course nothing is getting mandated. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo will let developers do whatever they want. I do think 30fps is becoming more unpalatable to many people, and you'll see more and more 60fps games, or options to play at 60fps. Not everyone prioritizes graphics over gameplay. Also, MPRT is a real aspect of visual quality, clarity.
 
I do think 30fps is becoming more unpalatable to many people, ...
I'd like some hard data on that. I think impressions like that have way more to do with the type of internet bubble in which you're currently residing than with reality. I don't think any of the Sony exclusives at E3 targeted 60fps, and folks didn't exactly seem appaled by performance, did they. On the contrary: everyone seems to be creaming their panties because the games all looked so good.

May very well be that we'll see more option screens in the future of course.
 
Yes, precisely. Literally no one complained about being 30fps. Fancy graphics are the crowd pleasers, cash cows and system sellers, the soon you go 60 fps only you'll get left behind. BF V at 60 fps literally can't compete with all the new 30 fps games visually and is not generating nearly as much hype either.
 
If Battlefield V were 30fps, there'd be outrage, for sure. The old titles were 30Hz, and then they switched to 60, for good reason. The most demanded feature for Fortnite and PUBG on console was 60fps. One delivered and one didn't. I'm pretty sure we all know which was which. 60fps was so popular on Fortnite that they removed the 30Hz option, as far as I know. If COD switched to 30Hz, what do you think would happen? If most sports games or racers switched to 30Hz, what do you think the reception would be? Why are Doom and Wolfenstein 60fps instead of 30? Overwatch? Nioh, Nier and Diablo? It all depends on the genre of game, but there's a growing interest in frame rate on console.
 
Gonna stay the same. Judging by what's selling, the vast majority of the gaming populace doesn't seem to have a problem with 30fps games. I mean how are developers even supposed to pull off feeding displays with 4 times the resolution at double the fr while still providing a visual boost over last gen you can actually spot without the help of digital foundry.

A lot of dreamers here on B3D it seems :LOL:. Mandating 60fps as base will absolutely slaughter half if not most game developers out there whom are having a hard enough time trying to get their games looking up to scratch, forget about ND quality. The amount of sacrifices you have to make to get that framerate is insane while still offering a generation visual leap at what 4k? Nothing is getting mandated guys, period. There will be more options tho, 60fps peasant res/visuals mode might become more prevalent. Rest assured the 4k/30fps mode will not go away any time soon.

A lot of people used to say the same thing about AA.

"Most people don't notice when playing, you don't need AA."

"People are dreaming that AA will ever become a mainstream feature in games."

This was all through the V5 5500/Geforce 2 gen. Continued through the Radeon 9700 Pro/Geforce 4 series generation. It even persisted long after that. The last console generation you heard a lot of the same thing from console warriors until AA started to become more common on their machine.

The debate as to whether AA was needed on PC only started to die when NV finally had competitive AA solutions (both in performance and quality) to AMD. And developers putting AA options in game finally ended it.

Basically when everyone could experience good AA, the debate ended as to whether it was needed in games, because having experienced it, no one could go back.

IMO, as games get cleaner WRT to rendering and more aliasing is taken care of, the more you notice how much the perceived resolution drops when things are in motion at 30 versus 60 Hz. It's extremely noticeable between 30 and 120 Hz. It also makes judder/shudder significantly more noticeable when you have a clean well rendered image.

All of that is why 30 Hz games look great in still shots or slow motion scenes, but drop significantly in action. 60 Hz games retain far more of the detail while in motion and hence look closer to promo shots when playing than most 30 Hz games. 120 Hz, preserves even more detail when in motion. That all translates into the games looking and feeling more realistic.

As games start to get better looking, the need for higher framerates becomes even more important. Similar to how the use of shaders vastly increased the need for good AA solutions to take care of not only edge aliasing, but specular aliasing, shader aliasing, and a whole host of other problems that get introduced when you increase your rendering fidelity.

At the bare minimum, I don't think console graphics will progress until there is at the minimum an option for 60 Hz rendering in all games. Just like it is almost unheard of for any game nowadays to not have an AA solution in place.

Not because it's being mandated, but because it is the best thing to do, IMO.

Regards,
SB
 
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At the bare minimum, I don't think console graphics will progress until there is at the minimum an option for 60 Hz rendering in all games. Just like it is almost unheard of for any game nowadays to not have an AA solution in place

Yet CGI still looks vastly better than anything on PC and doesn't run at 60fps...
 
If real-time raytracing is a 'thing' in the next generation of hardware, you're going to get a lot of 30fps games regardless. Triple-A developers are going to push the hardware for the most complex scenery and imagery (eye-candy) as possible. That's not to say backwards capability (older titles) and cross-generational titles may-not receive the 60fps treatment... but future titles requiring more real-time interpolation, rather than pre-calculated operations, I wouldn't hold my breath on sub $500 hardware hitting 60fps consistently.
 
Yet CGI still looks vastly better than anything on PC and doesn't run at 60fps...
You don't have to 'play' CGI though. The massive amount of motion blur presents a problem if you move the joystick a tad and have to refocus to get a bead on an enemy. I like motion blur in games but it's just nowhere near as comprehensive as that in CGI, and that's a good thing.
 
I would not be shocked to see a 120fps option for e-sports games like rocket league. Pretty much any shooter (1st or 3rd person) has to be 60Hz. Even Gears4 and Uncharted 4 had 60Hz multiplayer, because they know 30Hz is not good enough for anything other than a cinematic experience. Lots of indie games could take advantage of 120Hz. Would be perfect for twin-stick games, or indie platformers like Ori. Forza Horizon is switching to 60fps, I think, which will undoubtedly improve the series. I don't think you're going to hear anyone complaining about the switch, and that switch is happening within the same generation of consoles. To be honest, if Fortnite is still going strong by the time next-gen starts, I could easily see it offering a 1080p120 mode. If moba games ever make it to console, they'll have to be at least 60Hz. All of the sports games are 60Hz, but they tend to abuse CPU so I don't think they'd actually go any higher. A good case study would be GTA. If it had an option in the menu to switch between graphics 30Hz and performance 60Hz, I wouldn't be shocked to see performance win out because of all of the driving.
 
I still don't know why this thread is still going tho, it's a pretty simple solution, one resolution or visual mode, one for 60 fps or beyond, done and everyone's happy. Whynotboth.gif
At this rate we're just repeating ourselves.
 
Well likely because the thread is asking what the next-gen "will" target, as opposed to "what would you like to see"? The latter is a simple statement of preference, the former requires some guesswork with regards to the motivations of the market.
 
Over 60 is nice but overrated at the same time. How many console owners are going to have 4k 120fps screens? For me over 60 is more of an image quality thing. It's not needed for joypad use.
 
A lot of dreamers here on B3D it seems :LOL:. Mandating 60fps as base will absolutely slaughter half if not most game developers out there whom are having a hard enough time trying to get their games looking up to scratch, forget about ND quality. The amount of sacrifices you have to make to get that framerate is insane while still offering a generation visual leap at what 4k? Nothing is getting mandated guys, period. There will be more options tho, 60fps peasant res/visuals mode might become more prevalent. Rest assured the 4k/30fps mode will not go away any time soon.

Yes, precisely. Literally no one complained about being 30fps. Fancy graphics are the crowd pleasers, cash cows and system sellers, the soon you go 60 fps only you'll get left behind. BF V at 60 fps literally can't compete with all the new 30 fps games visually and is not generating nearly as much hype either.

Then why do 60fps games like DOOM, Wolfenstein and Battlefront 2 have a very fast and better motion blur than Uncharted 4 with sub 30fps for example? Don't always hype your games and bad-mouth others around like that. Don't confuse technique with artwork.
 
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He didn't. He was saying choosing 30fps and getting better visuals results in more sales typically than choosing simpler visuals at 60fps. Compare the sales of 60fps games to 30fps, I guess. GoW is still selling strong, for example.
 
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