Formula 1 - 2018 Season

[DJ12]

Fantastic actionfilled race. Verstappen 53%-55% at fault because of his signature double-move in defense.

Got to disagree. 99% blame on Verstappen. No illegal double move and Ricciardo either passes him or sails off down the slip road. No crash.

Max caused the crash, Riciarddo went for the gap that would've been there is he was passing someone with consideration for the rules, by the time Max moved back it was already too late.

 

[Kaotik]

Didn't Senna have a reputation for pretty much exactly that?

I don't agree, not in general anyway. Sure there were the championship-defining moments against Prost that were straight out from the same book Verstappen is using now, but they weren't continously happening in every race against everyone else. Most of his racing was clean against the rest for what I can remember

 

[BRiT]

From someone who doesnt and hasnt followed F1 Racing, there sure seems to be some odd rules that seem to eliminate any sort of excitement. Why do they exist? Is it done in the name of driver safety? Though they seemed more aimed at protecting the expensive vehciles than driver safety considering the crash that happened had both drivers come away fine.

 

[DJ12]

It may seem like that, but imagine the same crash only with a concrete wall instead of the run off area where both cars went off.

 

[Kaotik]

From someone who doesnt and hasnt followed F1 Racing, there sure seems to be some odd rules that seem to eliminate any sort of excitement. Why do they exist? Is it done in the name of driver safety? Though they seemed more aimed at protecting the expensive vehciles than driver safety considering the crash that happened had both drivers come away fine.

Countless reasons, but ultimately the main point is that without rules on what you can and can't do while being overtaken there would be no overtaking - the guy in front could always just force the overtaker to pick between crashing, running out of track or yielding the position.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

It may seem like that, but imagine the same crash only with a concrete wall instead of the run off area where both cars went off.

No track would be cleared for F1 without proper run off areas after a long straight. Has little to do with overtaking as there are various reasons a car might not be able to slow down sufficiently.

From someone who doesnt and hasnt followed F1 Racing, there sure seems to be some odd rules that seem to eliminate any sort of excitement. Why do they exist? Is it done in the name of driver safety? Though they seemed more aimed at protecting the expensive vehciles than driver safety considering the crash that happened had both drivers come away fine.

Who knows why. Fortunately the past couple of seasons rules have been relaxed and drivers have more freedom to race again. Fans are happy with this because it leads to racing rather than a 2 hour parade. Though there are a couple of rubber tile die hards in this topic that hate racing and feel the starting grid should be the finishing positions.

 

[Kaotik]

Though there are a couple of rubber tile die hards in this topic that hate racing and feel the starting grid should be the finishing positions.

I'm assuming you mean at least me, and you couldn't be more wrong.
I love racing and action-packed races.
What I hate is seeing 1 reckless guy in the grid playing by different rules than rest and not getting punished for breaking the rules time and time again when others in general honor the rules.

 

[DJ12]

No track would be cleared for F1 without proper run off areas after a long straight. Has little to do with overtaking as there are various reasons a car might not be able to slow down sufficiently.

They were probably doing less than 100mph when they actually left the track, easily possible to go off elsewhere on this track and others straight into concrete at that speed or higher.

 

[cjo]

From someone who doesnt and hasnt followed F1 Racing, there sure seems to be some odd rules that seem to eliminate any sort of excitement. Why do they exist? Is it done in the name of driver safety? Though they seemed more aimed at protecting the expensive vehciles than driver safety considering the crash that happened had both drivers come away fine.

The larger run-off areas and other safety features are more aimed at incidents like this:

The G-forces involved if he'd hit a wall where the gravel trap starts would have been huge.

EDIT: This is why there are rules about swerving across the track too, as this is the sort of accident you can get in those situations, especially in braking zones.

 

[Pete]

I'd love to see a statistic for the ratio of touching or crashing to the number of passes you were involved with (passing or being passed). Max has got to be up there. I think this crash was mostly Max (for the second move and not leaving a car width), but I'd like to see if Daniel started braking later than other cars attempting that move.

BRiT, even all that run-off wouldn't help if a car lost a wheel or went airborne. And if Baku shows anything it's that drivers aren't worried about hurting their cars.

 

[cjo]

I think this crash was mostly Max (for the second move and not leaving a car width)

I don't think he was under any obligation to leave a car width at that point. Ricciardo was definitely behind him, and at that point Max is allowed to use the full width of the track.

EDIT: The rule regarding leaving space at the edge of the track is actually this:

Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.

I think the racing line at that point is the far right of the track, based on the line people take through qualifying.

BRiT, even all that run-off wouldn't help if a car lost a wheel or went airborne.

Run-off can help with both losing wheels (see Buemi in China 2010) and giving a car a chance to no longer be airborne and slow down before it hits something.

 

[Kaotik]

I don't think he was under any obligation to leave a car width at that point. Ricciardo was definitely behind him, and at that point Max is allowed to use the full width of the track.

But you're not still allowed to weave left-right-left like Max did

 

[cjo]

But you're not still allowed to weave left-right-left like Max did

But you're still not allowed to refuel cars during the race. What's your point and how's it relevant to what I said? I didn't say he was allowed to make the second move. I only made a comment about whether the rule about having had to leave a car width was in effect.

 

[itsmydamnation]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricciardo-was-a-passenger-in-baku-clash-brawn-1032600/

But I would like to highlight a technical point. Once Daniel had settled for his line, and Max had changed direction blocking that line, the Australian became a passenger.

The downforce loss experienced by Ricciardo in the wake of Verstappen's car would have made it unstoppable.

This is why moving about in breaking zones ( being under breaking doesn't matter) is so dangerous!

 

[Pete]

I don't think he was under any obligation to leave a car width at that point. Ricciardo was definitely behind him, and at that point Max is allowed to use the full width of the track.

EDIT: The rule regarding leaving space at the edge of the track is actually this:

I think the racing line at that point is the far right of the track, based on the line people take through qualifying.

I think it's very interesting how potentiallyambiguous the language of the rule is, at least to a non-racer like me. I don't remember anyone successfully passing on the outside of that corner (maybe Danny if Max hadn't tagged him using the Gran Turismo line earlier in the race), in which case does the inside become the racing (vs. qualifying) line? Then Max's second move was the return to the (wheel-to-wheel) racing line, in which case he should have left a car's width to the edge of the track he was closest to.

Eh, I'm picking nits and likely not using the traditional definition of racing line (the fastest way around a dry track). Max is already guilty of moving twice, no need to twist definitions into knots to ding him for the car width.

 

[cjo]

I think it's very interesting how potentiallyambiguous the language of the rule is, at least to a non-racer like me. I don't remember anyone successfully passing on the outside of that corner (maybe Danny if Max hadn't tagged him using the Gran Turismo line earlier in the race), in which case does the inside become the racing (vs. qualifying) line?

I'm not sure, but people successfully overtook around the outside in at least one of the support races.

 

[cjo]

Looks like someone is making political statements about Catalunya while painting the pitlane...

 

[Kaotik]

Looks like someone is making political statements about Catalunya while painting the pitlane...

Could you connect the dots for us who can't connect the typo in spanish to the political issues between Spain and Catalunya?

 

[cjo]

Could you connect the dots for us who can't connect the typo in spanish to the political issues between Spain and Catalunya?

Saying that the Catalan region is Spain-'ish'

 

[Kaotik]

Saying that the Catalan region is Spain-'ish'

Ah, now I get it