Car game comparisons hit & run

OCASM · Oct 12, 2017

vspectra said:
Do you have any urban environment screenshots of trackmania?

I posted a video. Here it is again:

Recop · Oct 13, 2017

OCASM said:
I posted a video. Here it is again

This is Trackmania 2 which only runs on PC... and this is what i don't troll you. I posted comparable desertic environments.

So far, you failed to show an urban environment on Trackmania Turbo PS4.

Your expectations are far too high on console, especially for racing sims.

Nesh · Oct 13, 2017

OCASM said:
I posted a video. Here it is again:

How can someone conclude when this is running on a high end PC, at super high speeds and A LOT of motion blur?
Lighting is great in the footage you posted but I really cant understand how photo realistic it is under such conditions.

Anyhow, after playing some Gran Turismo 7, despite having lower res reflections and cars having some aggressive LOD depending on the occasion, the game manages to feel more realistic and pleasant than Forza 7 which I ran on Ultra 8K res at 60fps on my PC.
And I think the reason is the fact that PD handles the materials and assets much better. The direction in GTS works better. Something about the visuals, camera work in third person and handling feel off in F7. Like an uncanny valley kind of thing. F7 is trying to approach realism but at the same time it tells you that it is a game that tries too hard to be a simulator on top.
PD's direction on the other hand treats it as a real sport, a digital medium that tries to be as close to real life racing as possible.

Recop · Oct 13, 2017

Ok, last video comparison that i post between GTS and F7 :

Base hardware version for both games.

Nesh · Oct 13, 2017

Recop said:
Ok, last video comparison that i post between GTS and F7 :

Base hardware version for both games.

What I find the most impressive about Forza 7 is the fact that despite S being les spowerful than a PS4, Forza 7 technically doesnt show any compromises compared to GTS.
The assets are high quality, reflections are high res, resolution is fixed at 1080p, 60fps and has dynamic weather conditions. Either PD has extra performance to spare or Turn 10 managed to reduce the theoretical performance gap

edit: Ok something I noticed about the reflections on F7. I think it actually switches between high res and low res. When the camera is first person or on the bonnet it switches to high res. Other views switch to a lower res version

chris1515 · Oct 13, 2017

Nesh said:
What I find the most impressive about Forza 7 is the fact that despite S being les spowerful than a PS4, Forza 7 technically doesnt show any compromises compared to GTS.
The assets are high quality, reflections are high res, resolution is fixed at 1080p, 60fps and has dynamic weather conditions. Either PD has extra performance to spare or Turn 10 managed to reduce the theoretical performance gap

edit: Ok something I noticed about the reflections on F7. I think it actually switches between high res and low res. When the camera is first person or on the bonnet it switches to high res. Other views switch to a lower res version

I don't think Polyphony is better than Turn 10 technically but they have a much better eye for lightning and shading. The shading of the car is not as good as the GT sport one. Out of this the semi dynamic weather condition on 12 circuits is great on Forza side. Very clever way to add weather at locked 60 fps...

chris1515 · Oct 13, 2017

https://imgur.com/N8w7xvV

Timelapse from Forza 7 gorgeous

chris1515 · Oct 13, 2017

After I think the gap between the two teams in term of lightning, car shading is narrowing since last generation and it is most of the time only visible in video or gif comparison...

djskribbles · Oct 13, 2017

In game shots by a GAF poster. Very impressive.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=251819099&postcount=12844

After playing the demo for a few hours, I can hear a huge improvement to the audio. It is especially impressive when using a headset.

Nesh · Oct 13, 2017

chris1515 said:
https://imgur.com/N8w7xvV

Timelapse from Forza 7 gorgeous

I think we have already seen better. Looks limited and too artificial to impress.

chris1515 · Oct 13, 2017

Nesh said:
I think we have already seen better. Looks limited and too artificial to impress.

I prefer the weather in Drive Club but Forza 7 is a locked 60 fps game...

Recop · Oct 13, 2017

Nesh said:
What I find the most impressive about Forza 7 is the fact that despite S being les spowerful than a PS4, Forza 7 technically doesnt show any compromises compared to GTS.
The assets are high quality, reflections are high res, resolution is fixed at 1080p, 60fps and has dynamic weather conditions. Either PD has extra performance to spare or Turn 10 managed to reduce the theoretical performance gap

The visual difference is huge in my opinion. GTS looks much better, it's not really comparable, while F7 looks for less realistic in comparison.

chris1515 · Oct 13, 2017

Recop said:
The visual difference is huge in my opinion. GTS looks much better, it's not really comparable, while F7 looks for less realistic in comparison.

I think the biggest difference is the lightning and shading. Polyphony is not the only team with really good eye and very good photorealist light and shading. Kojima productions is very good too with the light and Square Enix team too. Very funny all this team are Japanese...

Karamazov · Oct 13, 2017

vspectra · Oct 13, 2017

Nesh said:
What I find the most impressive about Forza 7 is the fact that despite S being les spowerful than a PS4, Forza 7 technically doesnt show any compromises compared to GTS.
The assets are high quality, reflections are high res, resolution is fixed at 1080p, 60fps and has dynamic weather conditions. Either PD has extra performance to spare or Turn 10 managed to reduce the theoretical performance gap

edit: Ok something I noticed about the reflections on F7. I think it actually switches between high res and low res. When the camera is first person or on the bonnet it switches to high res. Other views switch to a lower res version

Forza 7 on XboxOne actually still employs the "fake" reflection mapping from the old last gen Forzas and PGR4. Basically they just take the last frame in the memory buffer and use that as the reflection rather than using a more demanding static cube map (GTS). This is why in Forza 7 the blue driving line that can be turned on or off still gets reflected onto the cars.

XboxOneX version of F7 is said to use dynamic cube maps with the additional power though.

OCASM · Oct 14, 2017

Recop said:
This is Trackmania 2 which only runs on PC... and this is what i don't troll you. I posted comparable desertic environments.

So far, you failed to show an urban environment on Trackmania Turbo PS4.

Your expectations are far too high on console, especially for racing sims.

Apparently an environment with tall buildings and lots of vegetation is equivalent to an empty desert. OK. At least you finally admitted the lighting in that video is superior to GTS. As for console-only games, Driveclub has dynamic GI, volumetric clouds and dynamic weather. Basic baked GI like TM'scosts not even a tenth of the power to simulate all that. PD is what's lacking.

Since Turbo doesn't have the Lagoon buildings I think large concrete structures are an appropriate substitute. Here you see baked GI everywhere, the track, the canyon walls, the balloons:

PC

PS4

Couldn't find a 60fps video of th PS4 version so I posted both versions. As you can see, the lighting is the same.

Nesh said:
How can someone conclude when this is running on a high end PC, at super high speeds and A LOT of motion blur?
Lighting is great in the footage you posted but I really cant understand how photo realistic it is under such conditions.

I don't see how the motion blur would affect the lighting. Doesn't seem like a problem when GTS replays are posted. Also, the TM2 games aren't exacly high-end games. Since the GI is baked it's also visible at low settings. Take this Turbo comparison as an example:

The reality is that this sort of GI is computationally cheap and PD just didn't give a shit about it.

Recop · Oct 14, 2017

OCASM said:
Apparently an environment with tall buildings and lots of vegetation is equivalent to an empty desert.

I talked about Trackmania Turbo, not your video of Trackmania 2...

At least you finally admitted the lighting in that video is superior to GTS.

Where ? You asked for GI in racing sims. I said that your expectations are too high on console.

As for console-only games, Driveclub has dynamic GI, volumetric clouds and dynamic weather.

1080p/30fps... ok...

Couldn't find a 60fps video of th PS4 version so I posted both versions. As you can see, the lighting is the same.

Yep and the lighting doesn't look better than in GTS.

The reality is that this sort of GI is computationally cheap and PD just didn't give a shit about it.

The reality is that Turbo is not a racing sims and a more basic game...

Nesh · Oct 14, 2017

OCASM said:
I don't see how the motion blur would affect the lighting. Doesn't seem like a problem when GTS replays are posted. Also, the TM2 games aren't exacly high-end games. Since the GI is baked it's also visible at low settings. Take this Turbo comparison as an example:

GTS is a slower game. Motion Blur in GTS is only visible in replays and it is not a constant like in the previous TM2 videos you posted.. Motion blur hides detail and imperfections and adds a sense of additional realism.

This last video doesnt look photo realistic compared to the others you posted since it lacks MB and we can see how it looks in static. Nothing to write home about really.

The reality is that this sort of GI is computationally cheap and PD just didn't give a shit about it.

You say that PD didnt give a shit about it but how do you know? Every track in GTS doesnt come with one time setting. Every track comes with multiple day time settings so shadows and lighting are calculated in real time for each daytime setting you choose.
PD left their rendering open for the possibility of adding dynamic weather and day time conditions.
The menus even include driving settings/assists for various road conditions even though wet trucks are not there.

OCASM · Oct 14, 2017

chris1515 said:
I think the biggest difference is the lightning and shading. Polyphony is not the only team with really good eye and very good photorealist light and shading. Kojima productions is very good too with the light and Square Enix team too. Very funny all this team are Japanese...

Trackmania too. Its HDR solution is Yebis, developed by Silicon Studio.

Recop said:
I talked about Trackmania Turbo, not your video of Trackmania 2...

Where ? You asked for GI in racing sims. I said that your expectations are too high on console.

1080p/30fps... ok...

Yep and the lighting doesn't look better than in GTS.

The reality is that Turbo is not a racing sims and a more basic game...

1. Indeed, you were deflecting right since the first reply. However, I completed your challenge. Trackmania Turbo is 1080p/60fps, has static GI all over the environment (which GTS lacks) and its HDR solution is Yebis.
2. Oh, it's racing sims now. Moving the goalpost.
3. Everything dynamic is quite expensive. Static is cheap. Couldn't even achieve that.
4. GI + Yebis, so yes it is

5. Yep, from a small studio and with much smaller budget.

Nesh said:
GTS is a slower game. Motion Blur in GTS is only visible in replays and it is not a constant like in the previous TM2 videos you posted.. Motion blur hides detail and imperfections and adds a sense of additional realism.

This last video doesnt look photo realistic compared to the others you posted since it lacks MB and we can see how it looks in static. Nothing to write home about really.

Indeed it's nothing to write home about, which makes its absence in GTS even more damning. And the defensive replies I got even funnier.

Nesh said:
You say that PD didnt give a shit about it but how do you know? Every track in GTS doesnt come with one time setting. Every track comes with multiple day time settings so shadows and lighting are calculated in real time for each daytime setting you choose.
PD left their rendering open for the possibility of adding dynamic weather and day time conditions.
The menus even include driving settings/assists for various road conditions even though wet trucks are not there.

A lot of the track lighting is baked in GTS. You can see really bad lightmap pixelation in the Tokyo Expressway track for example. TM's GI takes like a minute to bake the whole level on PS4 so it's not like PD would have needed to dedicate lots of resources to it. This simply wasn't a priority and it shows.

Recop · Oct 14, 2017

OCASM said:
3. Everything dynamic is quite expensive. Static is cheap. Couldn't even achieve that.

This is the same nonsense with the texture filtering issue on console : "but it's so cheap". Yet, most of the time console games don't have great texture filtering.

The obvious anwser is that nothing is cheap on console, everything is a matter of compromises.

You're not a developer, you only have an opinion based on nothing.

Dat "garbage" lighting :yes:

Car game comparisons hit & run

OCASM

Recop

Nesh

Double Agent

Recop

Nesh

Double Agent

chris1515

chris1515

chris1515

djskribbles

Nesh

Double Agent

chris1515

Recop

chris1515

Karamazov

vspectra

OCASM

Recop

Nesh

Double Agent

OCASM

Recop

Similar threads

Car game comparisons *hit & run*

Double Agent

Double Agent

Double Agent

Double Agent

Similar threads

Car game comparisons hit & run