A lot of people don't care and don't know what an accurate image is. They see bright and vivid and go WOW.
A lot of people also like the Kardashians.
Best 4K HDR TV's for One X, PS4 Pro [2017-2020]
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A lot of people don't care and don't know what an accurate image is. They see bright and vivid and go WOW.
A lot of people also like the Kardashians.
Personally I think it's wiser to do research. It might look fine on display to me, but then I might get home and read about how the TV handles motion terribly, or is dim. I also dont trust myself to know what looks good, if that makes and sense.
Many times I'd probably never even know, but I'd still like to know I got a good set. Heck a good example of this is input lag, I dont think I or most normal people can tell (offhand, anyway) if a TV has high input lag. Nonetheless I make sure to get one with low input lag because I know that's a thing. Make sense? Probably not.
Another example is PS4 vs Xbox One. Exclusives/networks/UI/friend list aside, most people probably cant tell at a glance Xbox is rendering lower resolution in many cases. They need research to know that and probably decided PS4 is the better buy.
The other thing is I'd be suspicious of how the sets were calibrated in a display environment. That's why as I understand TV's are all set to max brightness on display. But what if one wasn't, and you chose based of that? So that's another reason I dont think you can judge at all by how sets look on display in a store. Which you didn't single out in a store, but that's the only way most people are going to be able to compare many TV's.
Of course there's also a useful shorthand for research which is, buy a quality (read: more expensive) brand. In general, if you buy a Samsung or Sony TV you are going to be getting a quality product. This is good quick advice I give people about buying almost anything, buy a good brand you should be ok. Good brands dont tend to put out any outright junk products (although of course there could be exceptions).
But it's different for all. True laypeople, almost any TV will serve them great and they'll be happy with it. Or, simplistic factors like the remote and UI will play a greater part in their satisfaction than advanced picture quality.
Now he has updated with more good news. This Tv looks like the bees knees so far
Also apparently sold out (for preorder) already. Glad I got mine in even though I'm not at all sure I'll go through with the purchase.
I guess it's been noted as a 60 hz panel with 120hz backlight (where 120hz panel is better) but this is definitely a detail I don't care about, personally.
AVS preview of the TCL 55P607 http://www.avsforum.com/tcl-55-p-series-model-55p607-4k-hdr-roku-tv-with-dolby-vision-first-look/
My only question remaining would be 4k input lag, as for some reason he wasn't able to test that. The 1080P lag figures are fantastic though.
My only question remaining would be 4k input lag, as for some reason he wasn't able to test that. The 1080P lag figures are fantastic though.
Shit...wifey wants a TV in the bedroom. Wanted to hold out for a new TV until I at least had some ideal of how HDMI 2.1 and VRR on Scorpio would pan out, but my wife is adamant. At least Memorial Day is here so sales are abound.
TV went down last year even though it was only about 14 months old. We end up moving to LA a short time later so I wasn't thrilled about throwing money at a new TV. Picked up a Vizio E series with the ideal it would be moved to the bedroom at a later date.
Living with a cheap TV (the PQ hasn't made my eyes bleed, induced crying or bouts of depression) and previously having a more expensive TV prematurely die, has made me adverse to any price above $1600. A $2000 55 inch B6 caused a slight pause for a moment but I am drawing a line at $1600.
Input lag with HDR is my top priority so Vizio TVs are out. I have narrowed it down to a few TVs.
Sony 55X900E $1399
Samsung 65" KS8500 $1599
Samsung 55" KS8000 $999
For $999 the 8000 seems like a great deal but the x900e has slightly better hdr performance plus it's FALD. The lag on the 900 is less than desirable however. I rather have a 65 incher so the 8500 with its 8000 specs including the better lag input makes it's a pretty compelling choice. I could live without the curve (it doesn't seem too pronounced on Samsungs) but I haven't run across 65 inch flat model.
I am open to other TVs but only with well documented lag figures with HDR content.
I am leaning towards the KS8500 but I wanted to make sure I am not missing any relevant information.
Anybody want to chime in?
TV went down last year even though it was only about 14 months old. We end up moving to LA a short time later so I wasn't thrilled about throwing money at a new TV. Picked up a Vizio E series with the ideal it would be moved to the bedroom at a later date.
Living with a cheap TV (the PQ hasn't made my eyes bleed, induced crying or bouts of depression) and previously having a more expensive TV prematurely die, has made me adverse to any price above $1600. A $2000 55 inch B6 caused a slight pause for a moment but I am drawing a line at $1600.
Input lag with HDR is my top priority so Vizio TVs are out. I have narrowed it down to a few TVs.
Sony 55X900E $1399
Samsung 65" KS8500 $1599
Samsung 55" KS8000 $999
For $999 the 8000 seems like a great deal but the x900e has slightly better hdr performance plus it's FALD. The lag on the 900 is less than desirable however. I rather have a 65 incher so the 8500 with its 8000 specs including the better lag input makes it's a pretty compelling choice. I could live without the curve (it doesn't seem too pronounced on Samsungs) but I haven't run across 65 inch flat model.
I am open to other TVs but only with well documented lag figures with HDR content.
I am leaning towards the KS8500 but I wanted to make sure I am not missing any relevant information.
Anybody want to chime in?
Why not buy a cheap, short term TV and get a good one next year? Does your wife require a large, full feature screen, or will a 32" basic model suffice? Think of the cost of getting a new high end TV now only to have to get a new one with VRR next year.
That said, get a high quality TV now and the resale value should stay high.
That said, get a high quality TV now and the resale value should stay high.
DuckThor Evil
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Just curious why do you think that Sony has better HDR performance? At best I can see it has different trade offs. I guess you mean the lag is more instead of less than desirable
I do think the lag figure is good enough on the Sony.
I have to say that FALD is kind of borderline "full array" when the zones are that low. Sony 900E has FALD whereas 930E does not, but the 930E seems to be better in every way. 900E does seem like a good TV for the price though as does Ranger's latest contender
I doubt if I am going to be able to convince my wife we need another big screen in a year or two. 4 TV purchases in a 4-5 year period is a hard argument to make convincingly. So if I go cheap this time around, I will have to live in a reality consisting of two cheap TVs for awhile.
We already have a couple of 32" basic TVs but that suggestion resulted in my wife looking at me as if I had opine that Michael Jackson was a terrible dancer or that Justin Bieber could take Mike Tyson in a fist fight.
I just can't get myself to go well over $1600 for TV anymore. Im going to have to settle for a good mid range TV so I want to vet my decision with the group first since my dreams of hdmi 2.1 TV at a decent price has to be postpone. I'll guess I will return to that dream when the xb2 or ps5 launches.
Just curious why do you think that Sony has better HDR performance? At best I can see it has different trade offs. I guess you mean the lag is more instead of less than desirable
I do think the lag figure is good enough on the Sony.
I have to say that FALD is kind of borderline "full array" when the zones are that low. Sony 900E has FALD whereas 930E does not, but the 930E seems to be better in every way. 900E does seem like a good TV for the price though as does Ranger's latest contender
I was going by rtings.com real scene HDR measurement which is rated at 546 cd/m^2 while the ks8000 is rated at 453. I see what you mean about FALD but the 930E is practically one of the very few edge lit TVs that is good at local dimming. Too bad it's $2K. The KS8000/8500 doesn't have good local dimming performance but it's real scene brightness isn't far off from the 900E and actually beats it out when it comes peak brightness in a lot of areas. I am leaning towards the Samsungs mostly due to lag performance and since the differences that between the 8000/8500 and 900e aren't all that much.
I'm just past 40 in age so I don't need to exacerbate the worsening lag performance on my end with middling lag performance of a display. LOL. I need all the help I can get.
D
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And from a marketing perspective that's the beauty of numbers that represent things that customers don't understand, they are predicted on customers not understanding them. Microsoft called their second Xbox 360 because they did not want Xbox 2 vs. PlayStation 3.
Have you seen or heard the average consumer? They're idiots.
Which goes in favour of the argument of not looking at the numbers and instead looking at the final product and picking what you personally like, no?
Guys. To clarify. I never said "don't look at the numbers". I'm the first one who spends an unnecessary amount of time going through reviews in order to find the right product for my needs.
My original point was pertaining to some of these tests which do give an idea of a TV's performance, and peak brightness is a very important number, but should not be the only thing that matters. And believe me, I bought the TV that has the highest peak brightness by a long shot, but I wouldn't have got it if it wasn't amazing at basically everything else!
A black screen with a white square ONLY gives you a number which might or might not translate in the ability of a TV of displaying the content you want to see.
My original point was pertaining to some of these tests which do give an idea of a TV's performance, and peak brightness is a very important number, but should not be the only thing that matters. And believe me, I bought the TV that has the highest peak brightness by a long shot, but I wouldn't have got it if it wasn't amazing at basically everything else!
A black screen with a white square ONLY gives you a number which might or might not translate in the ability of a TV of displaying the content you want to see.
D
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Except that more and more people buy online, probably because of lower cost, than in B&M so actual evaluation of products before purchase is a decreasing consumer behaviour. I consider myself an informer consumer and bought my last two TVs online having read only reviews.
The reality is that even if I wanted to compare the three TVs that I was choosing between there is nowhere where I can actually do that. Thanks, internet.
Yeah, the argument ended up fairly polarised. The point was numbers don't tell you everything. Perhaps more important are solid user reviews that can point out issues missed in scientific tests?
TBH I've often ended up wanting to start a proper hardware review site that has a method to testing and ensures everything is looked at including usability. I was playing a PS+ game a while back and noted clear examples of places the controls failed and how they failed (and how to probably fix them) and felt a video review like this would be incredibly informative. In the end, if you struggle past the first frustrations and accept there's times the controls will kill you, there was entertainment to be had.
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www.rtings.com has everything you need. Tons of measurements and detailed layman's explanations of what each one is and why it's important.
More from the AVS reviewer on the TCL 55P607
Native contrast post-calibration - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...s-hdr-dolby-vision-launch-8.html#post53245826
Native contrast using rtings methodology - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...s-hdr-dolby-vision-launch-8.html#post53246482
Table of rtings.com results for comparison - http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/contrast-ratio
Viewing angles - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...s-hdr-dolby-vision-launch-9.html#post53247538
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...s-hdr-dolby-vision-launch-9.html#post53247538
UI responsiveness - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...s-hdr-dolby-vision-launch-9.html#post53248522
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...s-hdr-dolby-vision-launch-9.html#post53248522
Motion handling and FALD performance - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...-hdr-dolby-vision-launch-11.html#post53262994http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...s-hdr-dolby-vision-launch-9.html#post53248522
Seems awesome. Wonder if it will be sold out indefinitely in the coming months when people get wind of it. It went out of stock on Amazon for a bit but is available right now and all day I think.
For someone who is on a budget and not a strict videophile like me, seems perfect.
For someone who is on a budget and not a strict videophile like me, seems perfect.
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Well, it's up for pre-order on Amazon again, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Also, Mark Henninger (the aforementioned AVS reviewer) was told on the record by TCL that, "Our expectation is that the TVs will be shipping out to consumers in mid-June."
I say the more info the better but whatever method that makes you feel comfortable is ultimately right because it's your own taste you are trying to satisfy and it's your money.
I'll look at scientific data, reviews and eye ball tests, basically the whole shabang (is that the correct spelling) or I will go with just a subset of data. For the E series Vizio, I just wanted acceptable lag figures. At $600, I was expecting middling or bad performance in certain areas. I wasn't in the mood for any real research and my experience through the net was that Vizio creates good impressions with consumers on a budget. So I bought the set and kept it moving. I have been mostly happy because my expectations were set before my purchase and the Vizio has done a good job of meeting or exceeding this expectations even though I am aware of its obvious flaws.
Basically the ongoing discussion here about TVs has made me a lot more interested in finding a really good TV at a price range I find acceptable. I have enjoyed going through the process and if I ultimately end up being happy with my purchase, it's been a worthwhile experience.
To me it's not about a particular route being better than others but rather that consumers have various paths at their disposal that explore performance in the ways they see fit.
I'll look at scientific data, reviews and eye ball tests, basically the whole shabang (is that the correct spelling) or I will go with just a subset of data. For the E series Vizio, I just wanted acceptable lag figures. At $600, I was expecting middling or bad performance in certain areas. I wasn't in the mood for any real research and my experience through the net was that Vizio creates good impressions with consumers on a budget. So I bought the set and kept it moving. I have been mostly happy because my expectations were set before my purchase and the Vizio has done a good job of meeting or exceeding this expectations even though I am aware of its obvious flaws.
Basically the ongoing discussion here about TVs has made me a lot more interested in finding a really good TV at a price range I find acceptable. I have enjoyed going through the process and if I ultimately end up being happy with my purchase, it's been a worthwhile experience.
To me it's not about a particular route being better than others but rather that consumers have various paths at their disposal that explore performance in the ways they see fit.
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