Nintendo Switch Technical discussion [SOC = Tegra X1]

[phoenix_chipset]

Are these unplayable on the Wiimote?
Probably not. However, if Nintendo believe in it, they have to include it as standard or it's definitely dead. It's curious that Sony talked about HD rumble for PS3, but didn't bother in either PS3 or PS4. I guess they decided (perhaps noticing how motion controls etc went) that these little extras are pointless added cost?

You can use the Wii mote with them but they're far worse than with a standard controller. Of course there's games that play better with the wii mote, and still more games that wouldn't be possible without it. But for games like Xenoblade, monster hunter and sonic colors for example it's clear they were made for standard controllers.

Point being, standard controllers were entirely optional for Wii but esp. in its later years were well utilized by developers.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You can use the Wii mote with them but they're far worse than with a standard controller.

Right. So these games weren't 'designed' for standard controllers in that they are dependent on the use of standard controllers.

Point being, standard controllers were entirely optional for Wii but esp. in its later years were well utilized by developers.

Sure, because you're just supporting a slight tweak of the main system. Everyone had the Wiimote controls which you target. You then add a couple other button mappings for the controller. For a completely different feature like a camera or HD rumble, it has to be present. If Wii had launched with the controller and the Wiimote had been sold separately, it'd have bombed. HD rumble only has a chance because it's present in every system and every dev knows it's there, and Nintendo probably encourage devs to use it. If it was only in a separate controller, it wouldn't be targeted, at least not properly.

 

[phoenix_chipset]

This is a false equivalency, it's just force feedback. What about the rumble pak on n64, which was entirely optional? Rumble didn't die now did it

 

[Shifty Geezer]

An exception which can probably be explained through a wider look at the peripheral and how it came to be. What about rumble on DS? EyeToy? Kinect? Sixaxis motion controls?

As for it just being force feedback, it needs to be designed and incorporated in game. You write a game without it. You now need to go through your game adding HD rumble and tuning it to good effect, for an audience that barely exists (the subset of Switch owners who'll buy your game && who will play on controller). Why bother? Where's the economic justification? Just take the default rumble events and stick them alongside a few sound-effect calls and be done with it.

Devs are largely driven by economies. There needs to be a reason to spend more. A feature everyone has access to makes sense, but one that's a (small?) subset becomes questionable.

 

[bunnybug]

Can somebody explain this? i read the article through translation, does this downgrade really matter? is it really a downgrade?

 

[phoenix_chipset]

An exception which can probably be explained through a wider look at the peripheral and how it came to be. What about rumble on DS? EyeToy? Kinect? Sixaxis motion controls?

As for it just being force feedback, it needs to be designed and incorporated in game. You write a game without it. You now need to go through your game adding HD rumble and tuning it to good effect, for an audience that barely exists (the subset of Switch owners who'll buy your game && who will play on controller). Why bother? Where's the economic justification? Just take the default rumble events and stick them alongside a few sound-effect calls and be done with it.

Devs are largely driven by economies. There needs to be a reason to spend more. A feature everyone has access to makes sense, but one that's a (small?) subset becomes questionable.

There's no argument here ; rumble has been used in every home console after the N64 and it wasn't mandatory.

It's not as if every single object and action in games would have hd rumble feedback regardless of its adoption rate anyways. But you make it seem like no one would bother with it at all, and I see no reason why that'd be.

In fact I could see it being implemented regularly in multiplatform games, in order to distinguish them from other versions of said game.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Can somebody explain this?

nVidia has more balls than Nintendo.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There's no argument here ; rumble has been used in every home console after the N64 and it wasn't mandatory.

Rumble was an arcade feature first. Force feedback was then incorporated into home consoles and was a significant addition. It featured not only in the N64 Rumble Pack but also the PS DualShock controller which ended up being bundled with the PS1. It was far from being a novel peripheral feature that became widely adopted, which is was Switch's HD rumble is.

It's not as if every single object and action in games would have hd rumble feedback regardless of its adoption rate anyways. But you make it seem like no one would bother with it at all, and I see no reason why that'd be.

A few devs would toy with it. But in the long run it'd be just like Sixaxis motion controls. A few gimmicky uses followed by a realisation the effort in incorporating it yields no benefits for gamers or developers so it'd be quietly ignored. At least with every Switch owner having HD rumble there's an audience to experiment on to see if HD rumble can actually add anything valued.

 

[ProspectorPete]

It's custom after all Less memory bandwidth thingies or something?

 

[Michellstar]

Can somebody explain this? i read the article through translation, does this downgrade really matter? is it really a downgrade?

No, It just means that all of the functionality of the full Tegra X1 it´s not exposed for the Switch, it gives the example of camera sensors for the automotive market, hence the chip itself requiring less pins.

 

[Pressure]

Same chip, lots of unnecessary I/O.

No reason to solder the unneeded pins to the PCB.

 

[phoenix_chipset]

A few devs would toy with it. But in the long run it'd be just like Sixaxis motion controls. A few gimmicky uses followed by a realisation the effort in incorporating it yields no benefits for gamers or developers so it'd be quietly ignored. At least with every Switch owner having HD rumble there's an audience to experiment on to see if HD rumble can actually add anything valued.

It's something that doesn't encroach on the core game design, unlike sixaxis. It may take more effort to implement than rumble, but it's a secondary addition all the same and games wouldn't need to be redesigned for it. Nor did rumble, and rumble didn't change game mechanics either.

For all we know, hd rumble could become standard by next gen. I can see it happening since MS and Sony went after motion controls since Nintendo did them. And the speaker in the dualshock 4 which the wii mote did first.

In terms of consoles, the n64 rumble pak came before the dualshock.

 

[Rootax]

AAaaaaah, style remember Starfox 64 with the rumble pack. It's was great !

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's something that doesn't encroach on the core game design, unlike sixaxis. It may take more effort to implement than rumble, but it's a secondary addition all the same and games wouldn't need to be redesigned for it. Nor did rumble, and rumble didn't change game mechanics either.

For all we know, hd rumble could become standard by next gen. I can see it happening since MS and Sony went after motion controls since Nintendo did them. And the speaker in the dualshock 4 which the wii mote did first.

I don't know what you're arguing. HD rumble may become an awesome thing. If it does, it'll be because it was included as standard in Switch (or someone else just does it as standard). If Switch had not come with HD rumble as standard and HD rumble only featured in the pro controller, so only a subset of Switch owners can benefit from it, then devs would invest less in it and it'd far more likely fail.

Do you disagree with that? Do you genuinely believe that developers will support an optional peripheral feature as much as a standard system feature?

In terms of consoles, the n64 rumble pak came before the dualshock.

I know. So what? The success of rumble is not an indicator of what an optional peripheral can achieve because 1) Its roots pre-date the optional peripheral in the arcades where its value was already proven and 2) it was included in other products expanding the audience and developer interest. N64 Rumble does not support your theory that HD rumble could be omitted from the Switch JoyCons and included in the pro controller and still see successful adoption - it is a special case. More similar cases are motion controls and EyeToy which were added as unique peripherals and fizzled out with a lack of developer support.

 

[Goodtwin]

Same chip, lots of unnecessary I/O.

No reason to solder the unneeded pins to the PCB.

Your no fun, you just busted the bubble of Nintendo haters around the interwebz. Couldn't you have at least indulged them for a few days. LOL

 

[BRiT]

Your no fun, you just busted the bubble of Nintendo haters around the interwebz. Couldn't you have at least indulged them for a few days. LOL

There's no such thing as a Nintendo Hater, just Nintendo Realists.

 

[Goodtwin]

There's no such thing as a Nintendo Hater, just Nintendo Realists.

Oh no, there are certainly haters of all kinds. I have seen the ugly fanboy wars of 06, and it was brutal. Microsoft fanboys teaming up with Nintendo fanboys to take on the Sony fanboys. It was pure carnage. Of course the enemy of your enemy is only your friend for so long, and then another war enrages.

 

[CaffeinatedChris]

That probably lacks the 'extra data' that'll be installed once the game is purchased. Although the store should be clear on all data required if that's the care.

Absolutely the case. Not just because having to download an additional 13GB "extra data" would be a nasty surprise in terms of space, but if it's required to launch the game and not just a day-one patch, imagine someone doing an eShop purchase, letting the game download overnight/while charging/etc, undocking, taking their Switch on the plane, flipping out the kickstand, and playing a rousing game of

Error: You must download additional data to launch this title. Download now?

Whoops.

 

[phoenix_chipset]

There's no such thing as a Nintendo Hater, just Nintendo Realists.

You like 99-100% of posts with anything negative to say about Nintendo.

 

[phoenix_chipset]

I don't know what you're arguing. HD rumble may become an awesome thing. If it does, it'll be because it was included as standard in Switch (or someone else just does it as standard). If Switch had not come with HD rumble as standard and HD rumble only featured in the pro controller, so only a subset of Switch owners can benefit from it, then devs would invest less in it and it'd far more likely fail.

Do you disagree with that? Do you genuinely believe that developers will support an optional peripheral feature as much as a standard system feature?

I know. So what? The success of rumble is not an indicator of what an optional peripheral can achieve because 1) Its roots pre-date the optional peripheral in the arcades where its value was already proven and 2) it was included in other products expanding the audience and developer interest. N64 Rumble does not support your theory that HD rumble could be omitted from the Switch JoyCons and included in the pro controller and still see successful adoption - it is a special case. More similar cases are motion controls and EyeToy which were added as unique peripherals and fizzled out with a lack of developer support.

Eyetoy and Kinect fizzled out because they suck. No analog control and huge inaccuracies. And hey, Kinect was bundled with evey Xbox one but that didn't save it.

If it was optional this time around, and standard in a later console, that would still be just as worthwhile a contribution and it could see some very cool uses even if it's optional. And where did I even say that?