Nintendo Switch Tech Speculation discussion

[swaaye]

Flipper was demonstrated in 1999. These chips were 180nm vs contemporary 150nm GPUs and 130nm CPUs. Radeon 7500 was released over a year prior and had more fillrate and features than Flipper and would have probably fared well if paired with eDRAM and a low level console API.

Eh the 7500 was a 2001 chip. The original Radeon was released in mid 2000 and typically came clocked at 166 MHz and could not run asynchronously with its RAM (that was fixed with 7500). It also had some limitations with anisotropic filtering levels IIRC.

I remember reading somewhere that Radeon's register combiners weren't as useful as NV1x's. Though Radeon can do EMBM while NV could not until NV20.

I'm not sure that Flipper is at much of a disadvantage to 166 MHz R100.

 

[Exophase]

Eh the 7500 was a 2001 chip. The original Radeon was released in mid 2000 and typically came clocked at 166 MHz and could not run asynchronously with its RAM (that was fixed with 7500). It also had some limitations with anisotropic filtering levels IIRC.

I remember reading somewhere that Radeon's register combiners weren't as useful as NV1x's. Though Radeon can do EMBM while NV could not until NV20.

I'm not sure that Flipper is at much of a disadvantage to 166 MHz R100.

Sorry you're right, I meant to say that Radeon 7500 which came out about the same time as Gamecube was clearly newer technology while the 1.5 year older R100 was close to on par, although it's not the easiest comparison to make. I accidentally said those two things merged instead.

Back then consoles were more impressive because they tapped into more unique trade knowledge and were heavily optimized for playing games and nothing else. That combined with the much more focused software effort gave them a big advantage over PC with similar transistor budgets or cost. But they weren't bleeding edge. I'd feel safe betting that the Gamecube hardware was pretty much done a good year before launch.

 

[bunnybug]

Even better if you can pick it up and take it to the toilet with you for some quality time in the bathroom. I know plenty of people who currently do that with mobile phone games.

Now, I just need Nintendo to make a water-proof or at least water resistant version of the Switch so I can sit and soak in the tub while playing games on it after a hard day's work.

Regards,
SB

I guess going to the toilet is nice, but just look at this. the benefit of having better hardware is huge. really thinking about buying a pc so i can play nintedo games on proper hardware.

 

[Rodéric]

Watched Jordan Mechner (Original Prince of Persia author) playing Zelda on his Switch at the office during lunch yesterday, with the console standing, I felt the screen was much too small to play like that. I suppose it's much better when in hands instead.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Watched Jordan Mechner (Original Prince of Persia author) playing Zelda on his Switch at the office during lunch yesterday, with the console standing, I felt the screen was much too small to play like that. I suppose it's much better when in hands instead.

This was my first impression but after a couple of minutes you don't notice, it quickly feels natural.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The dock also has 3 USB ports in it.

My bad. The $90 lump of plastic with a power port also features a $10 USB hub. Still handled by a handheld with a USB port and hub along with HDMI. Could even be arranged to have a 'nice' optional peripheral for the style conscious. The important point would be that the dock shouldn't be necessary to connect to a TV, to save lumping around an unnecessary extra.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

It is necessary. Apart from nerds nobody is going to bother or want to have loose cables laying around.

 

[function]

N64, perhaps their most aggressive hardware effort, was nine months late and had an extremely limited launch lineup.

According to Tom Kalisnke, Sega America was interested in what became Project Reality, but Sega Japan Rejected it. So SGI went away and improved it, but Sega Japan rejected it again. After that, in 1993, SGI took the chipset to with Nintendo. Three years later N64 came out.

Sega Japan sure loved cockblocking Sega America, and messing their shit up. To be fair to Sega of Japan there may have been a node advance between when Sega would have been making it and when Nintendo released it, but on the other hand they went with the Saturn instead. So ...

So yeah, like Scotch, Nintendo chipsets need a few years to mature ....

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It is necessary. Apart from nerds nobody is going to bother or want to have loose cables laying around.

Currently you have a power cable into a dock to an HDMI cable. The dock sits there empty with the cables present. How is that better than a couple of cables either in a drawer or tucked out of view when not in use the plug straight into the handheld? And how is it better to have a dock (larger than the portable!) to take with you on holiday in addition to the HDMI cable and PSU when you could just take the PSU and cable?

 

[BRiT]

It is necessary. Apart from nerds nobody is going to bother or want to have loose cables laying around.

No its not. Wireless HDMI dongles exist.

 

[Goodtwin]

Currently you have a power cable into a dock to an HDMI cable. The dock sits there empty with the cables present. How is that better than a couple of cables either in a drawer or tucked out of view when not in use the plug straight into the handheld? And how is it better to have a dock (larger than the portable!) to take with you on holiday in addition to the HDMI cable and PSU when you could just take the PSU and cable?

Because that isn't anywhere near as elegant as sliding the Switch in the dock. The dock also gives the appearance of a consumer electronic part sitting under the TV, AKA a home console. For cooling purposes I would think having the Switch standing vertical is also important. If you see the dock and Switch in person, you would realize that the whole setup can sit inside a very small travel bag. Its not like your stuffing an HDMI and PSU in your pocket. I wont defend the price of the dock, but the functionality of the device is very clean and simple for the user.

 

[CaffeinatedChris]

No its not. Wireless HDMI dongles exist.

And the best part is that the cheap ones are totally latency-free and don't use compression either!

</Sarcasm>

The Joy-Con remotes lag enough as it is, let's not add that into play. Never mind the increased cost - people are already giving the thing hell for costing $300 with no game.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Because that isn't anywhere near as elegant as sliding the Switch in the dock. The dock also gives the appearance of a consumer electronic part sitting under the TV, AKA a home console. For cooling purposes I would think having the Switch standing vertical is also important. If you see the dock and Switch in person, you would realize that the whole setup can sit inside a very small travel bag. Its not like your stuffing an HDMI and PSU in your pocket. I wont defend the price of the dock, but the functionality of the device is very clean and simple for the user.

You can achieve that with an optional dock that connects the handheld HDMI out to a pass-through in the dock etc.

Again, they have chosen to not include HDMI out in the device itself. Do you argue that this is better for consumers, to not have that option? That it is better to be forced to have to carry and use a dock to use TV out rather than have it as an optional extra?

 

[CaffeinatedChris]

You can achieve that with an optional dock that connects the handheld HDMI out to a pass-through in the dock etc.

Again, they have chosen to not include HDMI out in the device itself. Do you argue that this is better for consumers, to not have that option? That it is better to be forced to have to carry and use a dock to use TV out rather than have it as an optional extra?

The general argument for devices having something like DisplayPort over HDMI is usually the licensing fee, but if they're going to include an adapter in the dock they'll get hit with the fee there. Unless it's somehow less costly to license an adapter vs. the device itself.

I'd think that having the device include HDMI onboard (mini-C or micro-D) and just passthrough would be better; fewer electronics in the dock (just a USB-C hub and the passthrough circuitry) as well as giving them the option down the line to sell a Switch Lite (Light Switch?) that doesn't come with the dock and is positioned for portable play first.

I definitely feel a hardware revision coming, but it's just a question of when.

Part of me says "pre-Christmas, to fix the bugs before Mario drops and catch holiday buyers" - but if the changes are significant (glass screen, properly fixed Joy-Cons, bigger storage option, HDMI onboard/dockless solution) then it's going to generate a lot of animosity among the early adopters and require an "Ambassador Program 2.0" to smooth that over.

If it's post-Christmas, then it feels a lot like saying "we can drop trou and squeeze out a hot steaming log of shite hardware, and you'll still buy it 'because Mario' you plebs" and that comes with its own obvious downsides. Or at least one would think, but if the past week has shown me anything it's that Nintendo fans will overlook or outright excuse a lot of things.

 

[Goodtwin]

You can achieve that with an optional dock that connects the handheld HDMI out to a pass-through in the dock etc.

Again, they have chosen to not include HDMI out in the device itself. Do you argue that this is better for consumers, to not have that option? That it is better to be forced to have to carry and use a dock to use TV out rather than have it as an optional extra?

If standing vertical is important for cooling, then absolutely. The Switch is designed to be traveled as a portable, and as a console its no more obtrusive than traveling with any other console, less so actually seeing as how its far smaller.

 

[Eteric]

The general argument for devices having something like DisplayPort over HDMI is usually the licensing fee, but if they're going to include an adapter in the dock they'll get hit with the fee there. Unless it's somehow less costly to license an adapter vs. the device itself.

I'd think that having the device include HDMI onboard (mini-C or micro-D) and just passthrough would be better; fewer electronics in the dock (just a USB-C hub and the passthrough circuitry) as well as giving them the option down the line to sell a Switch Lite (Light Switch?) that doesn't come with the dock and is positioned for portable play first.

I definitely feel a hardware revision coming, but it's just a question of when.

Part of me says "pre-Christmas, to fix the bugs before Mario drops and catch holiday buyers" - but if the changes are significant (glass screen, properly fixed Joy-Cons, bigger storage option, HDMI onboard/dockless solution) then it's going to generate a lot of animosity among the early adopters and require an "Ambassador Program 2.0" to smooth that over.

If it's post-Christmas, then it feels a lot like saying "we can drop trou and squeeze out a hot steaming log of shite hardware, and you'll still buy it 'because Mario' you plebs" and that comes with its own obvious downsides. Or at least one would think, but if the past week has shown me anything it's that Nintendo fans will overlook or outright excuse a lot of things.

I seriously doubt that they're going to revise the hardware before Christmas. That would piss off to many people. They'll probably just silently fix the joy-cons (apparently not all of them are defective anyway, so someone is just fucking up at one of the factories). As for the screen scratching thing, at best they'll start including a screen protector. While these issues are annoying, it doesn't warrant a SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING approach.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If standing vertical is important for cooling, then absolutely.

I already mentioned a pull-out kickstand is an option. I'm unconvinced position is important in active cool though. There's already a positive pressure created - just need the air intakes clear.

You also haven't answered my question directly so I'll present it as a binary choice. Ignoring engineering considerations as to why the dock might be required, which of these do you personally think is more practical and beneficial to users (and why)?

1) Have TV out included in the portable and an optional dock.
2) Requiring a dock for TV out and necessitating it as an additional carry in the case of want to use TV output away from home.

 

[Goodtwin]

I already mentioned a pull-out kickstand is an option. I'm unconvinced position is important in active cool though. There's already a positive pressure created - just need the air intakes clear.

You also haven't answered my question directly so I'll present it as a binary choice. Ignoring engineering considerations as to why the dock might be required, which of these do you personally think is more practical and beneficial to users (and why)?

1) Have TV out included in the portable and an optional dock.
2) Requiring a dock for TV out and necessitating it as an additional carry in the case of want to use TV output away from home.

LOL, well ok, since we are going to ignore any engineering considerations, I want Switch to be as powerful as an Xbox Scorpio while we are at it.

Seriously though, sure, if I had to choose, yes, I would prefer to have the option of no dock required for TV play. I just don't think this criticism carriers much weight. Maybe you do, and that's cool, but I do not.

 

[function]

Change of subject, but if Nintendo stick with NVIDIA they can really expand the Switch lineup as and when it suits them.

Switch 2.0 in 2020, 4K capable TV box whenever they think they're could be a market etc.

If the hardware is suitably abstracted a 4K super sampled device for existing games (like on PC, or on Dolphin) could be a fun device at not to much cost.

I hope Nintendo are already thinking beyond the existing device, and Nvidia could certainly take them there.

 

[AlNom]

I'm sure they'll want to take advantage of the future Tegras. It's kind of too easy at this point with Parker and Xavier announced, although they might want to wait for a shrunk Xavier instead of 16nmFF @20W .