nV40 info w/ benchmarks

davepermen said:
developertools that are monolithik, huge, and that force you, if you want to use one bit, to use all, such are stupid.
Huh? Even from the very beginning you could download the Cg compiler and manual separately.

davepermen said:
if they are the only real way to program for some vendor, this is even more stupid. i call this evil.
Which obviously isn't the case. Prior to Cg, you could program shaders for nVidia's cards just as well as you could for any other card.

And btw, do you feel that Microsoft is evil for putting out a 200+MB SDK for DirectX?

I mean, I think Microsoft is evil for many other reasons, but certainly not for that.
 
it was rather monolithic in setting up the compiler and all to work with cg runtime. if you only needed the compiler in advance, it was rather fine.

but it ment huge downloads, and still does. if you want to see an example, you need to download the whole package, and rely on a (long time) buggy browser, and all.

nvidia demos of 2000 and such where small, simple, and independent. they showed how to accomplish a certain task, and just that. now you have huge together-connected packages, wich are quite a bit more difficult to analize how they actually solve a task. it's nvidia proprietary. it wasn't, some time ago.


and, uhm, no, cg is wellknown to not work at all on pre radeon9500 (opengl, that is), as there is no ps1.4 supported (possibly is now, i don't know).
it is as well wellknown to insert extra swizzles that makes tons of theoretically valid pixelshaders unneccesary long, or add unneeded texture-dependencies to make them unrunable on 9500+ hw. these things where long called bugs. it's still interesting to see how those bugs where free on the nvidia hw (while swizzling and movs not always are, those where detected by all drivers and removed), and made the shaders unrunable on ati hw.
eigther they are reeeeeeaaally bad at compiler writing, or, well.. make your own thoughts.

fact is, cg was longtime unusable on any other hw than nvidias.

but yes, during this time, it was the only option, besides 'lowlevel shading'.

the biggest fault of cg is not actually the language, but the binding.

technically, cg would never have needed to be more than:
[source]
CGShader compileShader(char[] shader,CGRequestedTarget target);

with

struct CGShader {
std::map<std::string,GLuint> variables;
std::string compiledShader;
}

or similar
[/source]

it would just have been a small .lib, or .dll, and an exe wich uses the same, to offline compile.

everything more is useless overhead. and espencially in the beginning, there was quite some more. haven't looked at it recently, but i will do so now.
 
hm.. the Cg_Toolkit is 104 MB.

i don't know. but i call that bloated. nvparse was way to go. hell to get it working (a.k.a. compile it yourself to get it run without any dependencies on the extensions as you want the own extension-library-loader still work with your app), but definitely great. imho nicest tool ever. one function, insert your register combiner code, and done.

i expected cg to behave similar. i was very dissapointed, as you can guess:D
 
I still use nvparse, but Cg is much more polished, and complete. The latest Cg compiler package and documentaion is about 10 mb. 100 mb isnt a lot to download these days either (for the full toolkit), and you can bet that most developers are on pretty decent connections.
 
yeah, but 100mb for something that could be just a (some mb?) lib or dll, with one function..

that is what i talk about. much too big for what it is. cg is not some holy grail. all it is is a parser for a language, that spits out several forms of asm.

i have several compilers on one floppy disk (okay, i don't use floppies anymore. but they would fit on it), so i see no reason why cg should be that big.

and the dev-tool minimum should be just that. a dll, a header, a lib. 1, 2mb or so. and the rest, should be optional. and could be collected in an Everything.zip.

thats what i talk about. the nvidia package is closed-complete. it is just one big package. (the small one).

just because web is fast today doesn't mean you could not do your job at acceptable sizes.
 
just a M$ and bloat rant

Microsoft is known for unessesary bloating things up, and they also claim they push the PC hardware.

I'm quite sure XP could install much faster, and logon would be faster wasnt a browser, picture, movie and .zip etc viewer integrated into explorer.exe.

It would be interesting if XP was opensource and someone fixed the DLL HELL workaround, removed system restore, drive clean-up, file and settings transfer wizard and made explorer.exe back to a general file browser instead of internet browser. Just use programs that keep their own settings and DLL files in their own directory.


C:\Program Files\xerox\nwwia
is "in use" by winlogon.exe

Google discussion:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...o|lang_sv&ie=UTF-8&th=a7e2b31f6383106f&rnum=2

"The xerox folder is used by the imaging software in XP, as Microsoft licensed some of the tech from Xerox. My understanding is that it's used as scratch space."

So frontpage and imaging is bound to a critical system process like winlogon.exe? Oh the mess?
 
DemoCoder said:
IMHO, Cg began as an effort to provide an HLSL tool (there were none available when it shipped unless you count Stanford's RTSL) and expose features of the NVidia HW. IHVs can't always wait for standards bodies to agree and ship some lowest common denominator. That's why OpenGL extensions exist.
Agreed. Although with MS's HLSL tool coming down the pipe and the lack of any back end support from other IHVs was it realistic to expect it to succeed?

There is way too much overanalysis in these forums. Every engineering decision is seen as part of some master plan. The truth is, some guy had an itch to scratch -- write an HLSL shading language, and NVidia wound up with Cg. Previously before Cg, that was a NVidia project that allowed HLSL compilation for GeForce2/GF3 register combiners. If I were an employee with language/compiler design skills, I'd be hacking away on tools, not waiting for some hypothetical tool from OGL or MS years down the pipeline.

Perhaps in my original post I should have said "gain more influence" instead of "wrestle away". I admit that it set the tone for the "nVdia is evil" (tm) responses.

I fully understand that nVidia is a business and respect that. They should do whatever they can to succeed. I just simply prefer the approach of "build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door".
 
nelg said:
I just simply prefer the approach of "build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door".

Hmmmm....does anyone adhere to the approach of "build a shitty mousetrap, drug all the mice, force the drugged mice down a funnel into the shitty mousetrap....... and lie through your teeth about how great your mousetrap is! Then pimp some major mousetrap sites on the web....." And the world will beat a path to your door.....till they - well, some of them - realize they have been screwed!* ;) :oops: :LOL:

* all in jest......sorta........ :devilish:
 
martrox said:
nelg said:
I just simply prefer the approach of "build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door".

Hmmmm....does anyone adhere to the approach of "build a shitty mousetrap, drug all the mice, force the drugged mice down a funnel into the shitty mousetrap....... and lie through your teeth about how great your mousetrap is! Then pimp some major mousetrap sites on the web....." And the world will beat a path to your door.....till they - well, some of them - realize they have been screwed!* ;) :oops: :LOL:

* all in jest......sorta........ :devilish:

Hey! lets beat down a path and make this keyboard popular:

http://store.greenlaptop.com/psusbulslkew.html

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/qtek/psulslusbke.html

I've used it for half a year now and its very good (and pretty!) but still no-one sells norwegian layout version.

(cheap plastic stuff from logitech this isnt)
 
Gambler FEX online said:
(cheap plastic stuff from logitech this isnt)

I have a heap of old IBM PS/2 buckling spring keyboards. They don't make them like they used to.

Cheers
Gubbi
 
nelg said:
Agreed. Although with MS's HLSL tool coming down the pipe and the lack of any back end support from other IHVs was it realistic to expect it to succeed?
Aren't there several workstation apps now that have Cg support?
 
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