Getting RGB out of a Modded PS1?

Nesh

Double Agent
Legend
Here is the thing.

I have the first model of a PAL PS1 which was modded to play all regions. The peculiar thing about the modded PAL PS1 is that even if its connected to an NTSC compatible TV, when playing NTSC games they would output to black and white.
So they must be connected to something like this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001J6TOC4/?tag=b3d-21

The problem is that these adapters accept composite and output composite. But I want to output my games in RGB.
I have done some search and I cant find a solution where I can output my NTSC games in RGB color because the signal have to pass through this adapter.

Does anyone know a solution?
 
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Was there not an internal rgb fix which is just an additional link wire to enable this?

Do you know what chip or firmware is on the mod for multi region?
 
According to

http://www.psxdev.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=593

A full proper rgb scart should work , the "fix" wire I remember may not be possible for your psx and possibly was not rgb fix but a colour fix for NTSC over other connections.

From what I remember many "scart" leads were not rgb but composite and had the yellow RCA video out used for guncon so you may need a few to check.

If I recall because of green screen DVD playback issues on PS2 there were some other scart quirks also to watch out for but the "fixed" leads for that should work for you.

Quick check for scart leads look at the pins, full rgb leads will have all pins, many have less if they are composite over scart socket. You can test voltage on pins to detect rgb I believe.

Check here
http://retrorgb.com/playstation.html

Not read it for psx but a great source of info for retro rgb gaming believe it or not ;)
 
Why not a 3rd post...

PS2 rgb scart that fixes the green DVD playback apparently switches to component over scart so you certainly don't want that lead.
 
My PS1 was modded in 1997 by a game store in the middle east, so I have no idea what chip is in there.
I am a little confused. Based on your last post does this mean that the RGB Scart wont give me the desired results?
 
Which TV you are using?
I remember connecting PAL PS1 with selfmade SCART-RGB and getting color image on LCD TV from Crash 3 NTSC. Dithering ruins it though.
 
My PS1 was modded in 1997 by a game store in the middle east, so I have no idea what chip is in there.
I am a little confused. Based on your last post does this mean that the RGB Scart wont give me the desired results?

I believe a proper rgb scart will give colour rgb for pal and NTSC.

It's all so fuzzy now but played many NTSC titles on my pal psx and don't remember any issues other than first setup. Was late to the psx tho and had a late mobo revision, not sure if that altered things.
 
I had a jap N64 and the first time I used it on my TV the image was black and white which was then corrected to the right colors using a NTSC -> PAL adapter (or something). I am pretty sure my japanese N64 was outputting composite signal.

Are you sure your modded PS1 is outputting RGB ? a SCART cable doesn't not obligatory mean RGB signal. Composite is also transmitted with a Scart cable so you'd need a SCART cable designed ito transmit RBG signal for the PS1.
 
No no let me explain again. Since my PS1 is PAL when I play NTSC games it outputs them in black and white. So in the AV output there is a PAL to NTSC converter in order to output color for NTSC games. The converter has only composite though.
But I want to find a way to output RGB when I play both NTSC and PAL games for max quality.
Now I am not sure of course if there is a scart or other cable that may bypass the need for the converter and output in color RGB when I play NTSC games.
I dont want to be forced to use composite through the converter for color.
 
I believe a proper rgb scart will give colour rgb for pal and NTSC.

It's all so fuzzy now but played many NTSC titles on my pal psx and don't remember any issues other than first setup. Was late to the psx tho and had a late mobo revision, not sure if that altered things.
Ok. So do you think the scart in the link you gave earlier may help to bypass the need for the converter?

Sent from my SM-J320F using Tapatalk
 
No no let me explain again. Since my PS1 is PAL when I play NTSC games it outputs them in black and white. So in the AV output there is a PAL to NTSC converter in order to output color for NTSC games. The converter has only composite though.
But I want to find a way to output RGB when I play both NTSC and PAL games for max quality.
Now I am not sure of course if there is a scart or other cable that may bypass the need for the converter and output in color RGB when I play NTSC games.
I dont want to be forced to use composite through the converter for color.

You need a RGB scart cable/ Euro-AV cable; it has the full 21pins on the scart end. All PAL tv's with scart after 1980-something or so should have support for Pal60 as well as NTSC
 
You need a RGB scart cable/ Euro-AV cable; it has the full 21pins on the scart end. All PAL tv's with scart after 1980-something or so should have support for Pal60 as well as NTSC
Ok great thanks

Sent from my SM-J320F using Tapatalk
 
This site https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/ supplies quality SCART cables for consoles but now I am not sure which is the best.
They have SCART with 2 different SYNC types.
a) Wired as "sync over s-video luma" (luma sync).
b) Composite Sync/CSYNC (built in sync stripper) taken from luma pin.

The latter is slightly more expensive but I dont really understand the real world advantages
 
This site https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/ supplies quality SCART cables for consoles but now I am not sure which is the best.
They have SCART with 2 different SYNC types.
a) Wired as "sync over s-video luma" (luma sync).
b) Composite Sync/CSYNC (built in sync stripper) taken from luma pin.

The latter is slightly more expensive but I dont really understand the real world advantages

There are three ways to utilize composite sync.

1) Extract it from composite video (supposed the worst)
2) Extract it from luma video (s-video etc)
3) Use the console's own exclusive composite sync output directly. (supposedly the best)

I heard the original PS1 did not really output its own composite sync, so I settled with luma. The PQ is very good on my Sony Trinitron BVM, even superior to Saturn's (wired it up with composite sync) which was very surprising. Still, it is not as good as PS2's YUV/RGB (SoG) output so I usually play my PS1 games on PS2 instead, but the difference between the two are very, very small.

I also own a sync stripper which is quite convenient.
 
There are three ways to utilize composite sync.

1) Extract it from composite video (supposed the worst)
2) Extract it from luma video (s-video etc)
3) Use the console's own exclusive composite sync output directly. (supposedly the best)

I heard the original PS1 did not really output its own composite sync, so I settled with luma. The PQ is very good on my Sony Trinitron BVM, even superior to Saturn's (wired it up with composite sync) which was very surprising. Still, it is not as good as PS2's YUV/RGB (SoG) output so I usually play my PS1 games on PS2 instead, but the difference between the two are very, very small.

I also own a sync stripper which is quite convenient.
I dont have a sync stripper. I suppose you are using luma and a sync stripper? The way I understand it, a Sync Stripper is not necessary if the cable has CSYNC based on this video
. Which makes me wonder now, should I go for a CSYNC SCART considering that I dont have a stripper (see option A). Or would a sync on Luma suffice (option B)?
The cables in question are these (see specification tab):
Option A: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...-ps1-ps2-rgb-scart-cable-composite-sync-CSYNC
Option B: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...-playstation-1-2-ps1-ps2-rgb-scart-cable-lead
 
I dont have a sync stripper. I suppose you are using luma and a sync stripper? The way I understand it, a Sync Stripper is not necessary if the cable has CSYNC based on this video
. Which makes me wonder now, should I go for a CSYNC SCART considering that I dont have a stripper (see option A). Or would a sync on Luma suffice (option B)?
The cables in question are these (see specification tab):
Option A: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...-ps1-ps2-rgb-scart-cable-composite-sync-CSYNC
Option B: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...-playstation-1-2-ps1-ps2-rgb-scart-cable-lead

You're right. I only use Sync Stripper for consoles that I've yet to purchase a special DIY CSync cable for. Once I buy one, then I no longer use the stripper. For the PS1, I never bothered to purchase the official Sony SCART cable because PS2 can output better looking PS1 games anyways, so I just bought a DIY cable from Germany.

Now, a small disclaimer. What I'm about to tell you is my speculation, NOT my opinion as I do not have any experience with either of those cables. I've purchased some cables from her (PCEngineFan) store, but only Sega Mega Drive and Saturn, not Playstation.

For classic gaming consoles, we normally use four types of plugs.

RF = video color, color sync, audio all in one pin

Composite video = Video color, color sync all in one pin

S-Video = Luminance signal along with sync in one pin, Chroma (color) signal in another pin = total two pins

RGB = Red color signal in one pin, Green color signal in one pin, Blue color signal in one pin, Sync signal in one pin = total four pins


RF is the dirtiest as everything including even audios in one single pin. We normally try to avoid RF for a reason.

Composite video is better as it ditches audio, but still, every video information is in one single pin. Hardcore enthusiasts also try to stay away from composite video.

S-Video seperates video into two pins, chroma (color) signal and Luma signal. Sync is contained inside Luma signal though.

RGBS is the most pristine type for enthusiasts as it now offers three seperate color signals along with independant unmolested sync signal which is also called composite sync. (Not to be confused with composite video)


Unfortunately for the PSX, while it can output pure R,G,B signal fine, it cannot output S signal, meaning we're loosing out on the composite sync. So we have to be able to tap it from somewhere. And there are three choices.

1) Simply tab into composite video as a substitute since composite video already has the required sync signal anyways. This is how the official Sony SCART RGB cable operates btw. The SNES official SCART cable works in a same way too. However, it's not ideal as composite video signal is filthy with other color informations. So the next two alternatives are better.

2) Extract composite sync from composite video

3) Extract composite sync from luma signal of S-Video

And the two choices you're contemplating with is just that.


The 20 pounds (the more expensive one) one is option 2)

The cheaper 15 pounds one is option 3)


The 20 pounds one taps into composite video to extract composite sync. While she could have done it cheaply, she has spent more money on independant hardware sync stripper device inside cable for improved compatibilities with various upscalers. That's why it's more expensive. But it also means it has identical PQ as simply connecting official Sony RGB SCART cable into a standalone Sync stripper device such as Sync Strike. Same procedure.

The cheaper one taps into S-video to extract composite sync. It does not go overboard with trying to cram in an extravagant sync stripper hardware as the 20 pounds one, but it does its job fine anyways. My cable purchased from Germany is also of this type.

Now think about it. Composite video has more video informations crammed together than one single S-Video pin. In order to extract composite sync from a composite video, you would have search through all video signal including all color signals. S-Video is better because you only need to tap it from the Luma channel, not chroma channel. While not as good as RGBS for entirely independant color and sync signals, S-Video is still the better compromise than composite video because the sync signal is only lumped together with luminance signal, not color signals.

That's why I've purchased my PS1 cable for S-video luma type, not composite video type. And in my opinion, the PQ is extremely supreme! While not as good as true composite sync, it gets closer to RGBS than Sync Stripper solution. When I was using crappy TVs with crappy cables, I always thought the Sega Saturn is more vibrant than Playstation. But having used Luma cable along with Sony BVM has changed my opinion. Very impressed with results. I've also done my share of researches and the guys and gals at Shmups have said the same thing. Luma is better than composite video. But you may want to double check with the lady before heeding my advice. I may be wrong on a few accounts.
 
You're right. I only use Sync Stripper for consoles that I've yet to purchase a special DIY CSync cable for. Once I buy one, then I no longer use the stripper. For the PS1, I never bothered to purchase the official Sony SCART cable because PS2 can output better looking PS1 games anyways, so I just bought a DIY cable from Germany.

Now, a small disclaimer. What I'm about to tell you is my speculation, NOT my opinion as I do not have any experience with either of those cables. I've purchased some cables from her (PCEngineFan) store, but only Sega Mega Drive and Saturn, not Playstation.

For classic gaming consoles, we normally use four types of plugs.

RF = video color, color sync, audio all in one pin

Composite video = Video color, color sync all in one pin

S-Video = Luminance signal along with sync in one pin, Chroma (color) signal in another pin = total two pins

RGB = Red color signal in one pin, Green color signal in one pin, Blue color signal in one pin, Sync signal in one pin = total four pins


RF is the dirtiest as everything including even audios in one single pin. We normally try to avoid RF for a reason.

Composite video is better as it ditches audio, but still, every video information is in one single pin. Hardcore enthusiasts also try to stay away from composite video.

S-Video seperates video into two pins, chroma (color) signal and Luma signal. Sync is contained inside Luma signal though.

RGBS is the most pristine type for enthusiasts as it now offers three seperate color signals along with independant unmolested sync signal which is also called composite sync. (Not to be confused with composite video)


Unfortunately for the PSX, while it can output pure R,G,B signal fine, it cannot output S signal, meaning we're loosing out on the composite sync. So we have to be able to tap it from somewhere. And there are three choices.

1) Simply tab into composite video as a substitute since composite video already has the required sync signal anyways. This is how the official Sony SCART RGB cable operates btw. The SNES official SCART cable works in a same way too. However, it's not ideal as composite video signal is filthy with other color informations. So the next two alternatives are better.

2) Extract composite sync from composite video

3) Extract composite sync from luma signal of S-Video

And the two choices you're contemplating with is just that.


The 20 pounds (the more expensive one) one is option 2)

The cheaper 15 pounds one is option 3)


The 20 pounds one taps into composite video to extract composite sync. While she could have done it cheaply, she has spent more money on independant hardware sync stripper device inside cable for improved compatibilities with various upscalers. That's why it's more expensive. But it also means it has identical PQ as simply connecting official Sony RGB SCART cable into a standalone Sync stripper device such as Sync Strike. Same procedure.

The cheaper one taps into S-video to extract composite sync. It does not go overboard with trying to cram in an extravagant sync stripper hardware as the 20 pounds one, but it does its job fine anyways. My cable purchased from Germany is also of this type.

Now think about it. Composite video has more video informations crammed together than one single S-Video pin. In order to extract composite sync from a composite video, you would have search through all video signal including all color signals. S-Video is better because you only need to tap it from the Luma channel, not chroma channel. While not as good as RGBS for entirely independant color and sync signals, S-Video is still the better compromise than composite video because the sync signal is only lumped together with luminance signal, not color signals.

That's why I've purchased my PS1 cable for S-video luma type, not composite video type. And in my opinion, the PQ is extremely supreme! While not as good as true composite sync, it gets closer to RGBS than Sync Stripper solution. When I was using crappy TVs with crappy cables, I always thought the Sega Saturn is more vibrant than Playstation. But having used Luma cable along with Sony BVM has changed my opinion. Very impressed with results. I've also done my share of researches and the guys and gals at Shmups have said the same thing. Luma is better than composite video. But you may want to double check with the lady before heeding my advice. I may be wrong on a few accounts.
I sent my question to retrogamingcables explaining that I have the origibal PAL Playstation which I want to directly connect to my HD TV and I am not sure which cable I should buy. I got a simple answer along the lines of "we usually recommend Sync on Luma and CSYNC only if its necessary" which isnt a very clear answer. They dont clarify when "its necessary" nor which is the best PQ for my HD TV and I certainly dont want to have upscaling and sync issues on with my TV upscaling the signal.

Sent from my SM-J320F using Tapatalk
 
I asked for clarifications. Cases where CSYNC is needed are cases where I am using somthing like the Sony PVM 2950G, 2960QM, NEC Multisync 4PG & XM29 Plus an Extron Matrix switch.
Sync on Luma it is then
 
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