Sony Playstation Meeting September 7 2016 [PS4 Slim, PS4 Pro, Rumors, Speculations, and News]

[Sigfried1977]

What this may do though is push developers to have 60fps as standard on both PS4 and Xbox One. Yes it will mean that visuals may have to take a hit, but in general it will be good for everyone going forward.

I doubt that's gonna happen. Contrary to pupular belief, the vast majority of gamers actually don't get PTSD from lower framerates. They most likely think a game such as Assassin's Creed would benefit an awful lot more from visual splendor than extra performance. I don't need 60fps in Uncharted. Strip away the visual splendor and all you've got left is a shit shooter with an okay-ish story. Slower-paced games like Deus Ex, or Fallout, or just about any other rpg really don't need it either.

 

[iroboto]

It will be interesting to see how 3rd party tiles end up between PS4pro and Scorpio.

If the checkerboard rendering is hardware and minimal design changes it means the game engine will not need to do this itself and therefore possibly wont do it on Scorpio. Then you have more TF but far more pixels to be rendered.

Eh. Sebbbi and other Devs will tell you otherwise, take tiled resources for instance; they don't use it because it's flawed. They prefer their own software solution which is faster and they have more control over it.

So hardware is good, but if or when techniques change, sometimes the hardware is not compatible with it and it needs to be left out for whatever reason. Not saying this is the case with checkerboard rendering, but these can be issues with hardware features at times.


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[Scott_Arm]

but how would they sell that to main stream (which is the target for consoles). You can see a bigger screen, a higher resolution screen, maybe even believe to see HDR (although I'm worried people will mix that up with the HDR tone mapping of photo app toys).
but if you place two TVs, one with adaptive framerate, one running vsynced, no normal customer will really see a difference. once you explain and proof it, they might see it, but won't buy a new TV just for that reason. Marketing can sell 100Hz 200Hz TVs, but just because people have some value in numbers. but freesync? (Don't get me wrong, I value that, I've a g-sync monitor on my list ).

the HDR firmware is a really really nice thing, tho. I buy consoles because I know I'll be able to play all games in nicest quality till the generation dies. I'm looking forward to HDR.
I'm not bothered with PS4 Pro as I don't own a 4k projector (4k projectors start at 7k euro). But if there would be games that look graphically inferior or even stutter (like games on the old 3ds), that would make me throw out the PS4. I don't want to buy a PS4.5 just to buy a PS4.75 some years later to be able to play games properly.

Unless you buy an HDR capable display (they're all 4k), that HDR firmware upgrade is going to do nothing for you.

 

[AlNom]

On first look It looks native with artifacts on both axis. Which might be that new reconstruction technique (checkerboard rendering) they talked about. We'll see. It's definitely not the usual blurry upscaling. We can see 'native' edges.

There are obvious fail cases where transparencies are involved (1/2 res).

 

[Gradthrawn]

I'm curious as to whether or not the display in PSVR has any support for HDR. I'm not sure if that's been mentioned one way or the other yet (but then again I assume if it did support it they would have mentioned that at the meeting).

 

[fehu]

I'm completely out of touch with this industry.
The ps4pro looks the best compromise to offer something better without pissing off the existing user base, instead the meme is the delusion exactly from the actual ps4 owner 0_0
I've read first world rage/drama like "I actually own a ps4, now explain me why I must spend 400$ for the pro if it's not a new generation!"

 

[mpg1]

The height of PS4 Pro is only 2mm more than OG PS4.....that's nothing really.

 

[London Geezer]

The height of PS4 Pro is only 2mm more than OG PS4.....that's nothing really.

Is it?? It looked like a triple stacked PS4. Sooooo it might just fit under my TV.................. No. I can't.

 

[AzBat]

I was hoping (waiting) that PS4 Pro would have an UHD drive for my living room and man-cave purposes. I guess it's time to shop for some good UHD blu-ray standalone players.

I hear Microsoft makes a competent one.

If the checkerboard rendering is hardware and minimal design changes it means the game engine will not need to do this itself and therefore possibly wont do it on Scorpio.

Scorpio can do checkerboard rendering or whatever in software. It just means a little less overhead on PS4Pro

Couldn't MS roll their own software support to make it transparent to the developer similar to how they have done display planes?

Tommy McClain

 

[mpg1]

Is it?? It looked like a triple stacked PS4. Sooooo it might just fit under my TV.................. No. I can't.

Well assuming that spec sheet is correct. It has 2cm extra on both it's width and depth over OG PS4 though... which is somewhat significant.

 

[sebbbi]

I'm completely out of touch with this industry.
The ps4pro looks the best compromise to offer something better without pissing off the existing user base, instead the meme is the delusion exactly from the actual ps4 owner 0_0
I've read first world rage/drama like "I actually own a ps4, now explain me why I must spend 400$ for the pro if it's not a new generation!"

There are people who always buy the best console available. Some even buy both Xbox and Playstation. This time you need to spend 400$ for the newest Playstation, but you only get 2x performance improvement over the old one. Usually you got 10x performance improvement when you bought a new console. Of course some people will be upset. A much smaller performance upgrade, but a similar upgrade cost = not as much bang for buck.

However PS4 Pro is perfect for new adopters, who don't have PS4 already. It has all PS4 games available at launch. And the quality of launch games will be much better, since the hardware is familiar to most developers.

 

[function]

Couldn't MS roll their own software support to make it transparent to the developer similar to how they have done display planes?

MS have had excellent hardware scalers two generations in a row. I'm sure they can do whatever they want.

Sony's scaling seems like a really sensible approach for a "PS4K", where most PS4 games run at 1080, and so (2 X GPU) X (2 X Checkerboard) arrives nicely at 4K. They even include a little extra on the GPU side for HDR overhead, like MS did on the X1S.

But with significantly more GPU to play with I have absolutely no doubt that developers could roll their own software solutions that they felt work best for their engine and their goals. Some might want to use completely different 4K image construction techniques based on the depth buffer and different colour buffer resolutions and temporal sampling patterns.

Before the end of the generation I wouldn't be surprised to see Neo developers skipping the checkerboard upscaler and rolling their own solutions.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A much smaller performance upgrade, but a similar upgrade cost = not as much bang for buck.

Upgrade cost isn't $400 though, as you'd sell your PS4 because the Pro runs the same games.

However PS4 Pro is perfect for new adopters, who don't have PS4 already. It has all PS4 games available at launch. And the quality of launch games will be much better, since the hardware is familiar to most developers.

One has to wonder who would be willing and wanting to pay $400 for a console now who wasn't willing/wanting to buy a similar console for that or cheaper the past two years.

 

[sebbbi]

Upgrade cost isn't $400 though, as you'd sell your PS4 because the Pro runs the same games.

That's true. PS4 price should go down much less than traditional "last gen" consoles. PS4 Slim is priced at 300$, so it doesn't degrade the original PS4 price much either. Upgrade at 200$+ sounds much more reasonable.

One has to wonder who would be willing and wanting to pay $400 for a console now who wasn't willing/wanting to buy a similar console for that or cheaper the past two years.

1. There are more games available. I have bought consoles just because of a single game franchise.
2. There are better games available. Launch window games are never perfect.
3. You just bought a UHD TV and are looking for some 4K and/or HDR content.
4. Your life situation has changed (more money, more free time, etc)
5. You are interested about PSVR, and this is the best console for it.
6. You bought Xbox One at launch, because you liked XBO launch games better. Now there's enough PS4 games that you want to play.

I have done 6 in several generations. One console had better games in launch, so I bought it. I bought the other one or two years later.

 

[Billy Idol]

Hm, I am sceptical right now and for the first time don't have this immediate push to buy the new playstation.

This half console cycle is stupid imo. It's PC all over the place: different console versions automatically means less optimisation and weakest link dictates the tec imo:

Less optimisation means less bang for the buck (see PC), means more frequent upgrades of hardware...PC.

Weakest hardware dictates means that X1 sets the pace for all the systems...poor 5k$ PC owners.

I don't like the PC-ifying of my consoles!

Meh.

 

[Scott_Arm]

For me, it really comes down to my tv. My tv isn't that old and I don't want to replace it. It's 1080p and obviously not hdr. I kind of feel like I'd be missing out on too many of the advantages of the console. Spending money to upgrade just for a more stable framerate or maybe true 1080p just isn't worth it to me. PS4 Pro is actually more enticing for me because I don't have a playstation 4, so it would just allow me to play some of the games I'd like to play and haven't been able to. Scorpio will have to demonstrate some pretty meaningful improvements at 1080p for me to jump in. I'm not 100% sure that it will. But if I had a 4k hdr tv (or monitor), I'd probably be pretty excited about these boxes.

 

[London Geezer]

I hope there will be some sort of standardisation in how we want to output our games? Perhaps at a higher OS level? Say, options between High Res (4k30 lower detail), High Speed (1080p at higher framerate and lower detail) or High detail (1080p30 at highest settings). That would probably make everyone's lives easier, without having to choose for each game.

Or maybe I do want to choose something different for each game depending on how the developers handle the upgrade.

Now I'm confused and I hate everyone.

 

[Jay]

It's going to be interesting to see how well PS4 Pro sells. Less than 10% of North American households have UHD TVs, and not all of them are even HDR capable. Market research expects 50% UHD adaptation to happen at 2020. And these are North American numbers. FullHD TVs got popular first in North America, it took several years for other continents to catch up.

The shown PS4 Pro games used the extra hardware resources mostly to hit as close to 4K output (+HDR output). 90%+ of customers have 1080p TVs (holiday this year). Downsampling from 4K down to 1080p gives you nice antialiasing. However if that's the only difference in most games, it's going to be hard to convince most consumers to upgrade. As a gamer, I would like 30 fps -> 60 fps upgrade more. But I understand that it is hard to double the frame rate, as the CPU received only a minor boost. And unfortunately double frame rate is not as sexy as 4K

Those figures are for general adoption.
The more important figures would be, how many gamers have 4k, how many are interested in upgrading in the next year or two.
Also how many media buff's have 4k also, etc.
That's who they will be trying to sell to, not the general populist. I'm not saying that the figures are huge, just that those general type of figures are a superset of who it's actually aimed at.

Agree with every else though.

 

[chris1515]

Hm, I am sceptical right now and for the first time don't have this immediate push to buy the new playstation.

This half console cycle is stupid imo. It's PC all over the place: different console versions automatically means less optimisation and weakest link dictates the tec imo:

Less optimisation means less bang for the buck (see PC), means more frequent upgrades of hardware...PC.

Weakest hardware dictates means that X1 sets the pace for all the systems...poor 5k$ PC owners.

I don't like the PC-ifying of my consoles!

Meh.

It is not a problem. The CPU of the PS4 Pro is the same. The GPU is only a little bit different just more powerful.

The interesting things Cerny said it it that the PS4 Pro don'the change the purpose of generation. It is just a different model of PS4.

If you have a PS4 and you want a true generational gap wait the PS5...

 

[London Geezer]

Everyone else will have different views and requirements. HDR sets are very new to the market, and a lot of people who already bought 4K sets didn't future proof their new set and got non-HDR TVs.

By the time I upgrade my TV, the Pro will probably be one or two years old. So by then I might just wait for PS5. At the same time, I wouldn't buy a new set without something to play content on it, which leads me to think that I will only upgrade my nice TV once PS5 is out.

Unless I go shopping crazy at Christmas and somehow end up with one of those LOVELYYYY OLED HDR sets by LG or Panny and a Pro. Now that would be really, really irresponsible.