Nintendo announce: Nintendo NX

[Deleted member 13524]

Sure fits with old Nvidia Shield characteristics ...

The original shield console had a huge battery and very decent battery life, despite Tegra 4 not being very efficient:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7190/nvidia-shield-review-tegra-4-crossroads-pc-mobile-gaming/9

 

[cheapchips]

Ever since I first heard of the possibility of breakaway controllers I've been wondering about ergonomics, and that image there just makes that even more of a concern. How do you even use the D-pad comfortably when it has to compete with space for the analog pad? If the breakaway controllers are made comfortably large it would make the whole NX absolutely gigantic. And the top corners of each controller are sharp, in that render. Not comfy! If Nintendo rounds them off, the device will look cobbled-together when joined up - which in fact is exactly what it is. So - job done then? Lol.

Then there's the issue of where to put index finger buttons so they're usable in both separated and joined-up mode. Perhaps if you push them in sideways? Would feel odd in breakaway mode, so a button which could be pushed in sideways when joined up, and downwards when split apart... *shrug* If they go that way it would complicate things mechanically.

Then there's the issue of reliability... Having pieces come off and snap back together sounds like a recipe for mechanical failure and breakage. If you drop your NX to the floor, will the locking mechanisms be wrecked by the impact? If not - how big and heavy would they have to be to withstand everyday bangs and impacts, kid treatment and so on?

...Oh, and I just realized; the colored buttons for each controller are mirrored for each player. Hella confusing. So either you disregard colors in games and just go for position in the diamond formation, or you have to fight your muscle memory every time you need to press a button depending on which controller you're using at the time. [emoji14] (If the buttons on the left controller are mirrored compared to the right controller to match positions when in breakaway mode, they become basically unusable when joined up, as they will...well... Be mirrored. [emoji14] But maybe you're not supposed to use all buttons when in joined mode. But that's typical Nintendo dumb, so I guess that's how it could be.)

I'm thinking Nintendo may have to drop colored buttons if this is the way the device will work. Or, indeed any icon or markings on the buttons, other than perhaps an arrow.

This design just creates tons of issues for Nintendo that may be as bad, if not worse as anything regarding the wuu.

The 'leaks' suggest limit inputs on the detachable controllers:

Left - Stick + segmented d-pad + shoulders
Right - Buttons + stick + shoulders

Motion control for both.

It suggests Nintendo assume multiplayer game input is fairly simple.

That would leave my main two player concerns being:

The right controller ends up with the stick too far indented, since you wouldn't want it at the bottom when when connected.

The left controller has no access to shoulder buttons, as they're under your left hand. The buttons are the d-pad. Ew. Probably. The colour coding would work though!


I really can't see them kitchen sinking each controller like that mockup. As you point out, the ergonomics would be crap, so it doesn't remedy anything.

 

[wco81]

Why breakaway controllers?

Will it have functionality in tablet mode when it's less bulky?

 

[cheapchips]

I'm assuming that it's to facilitate multiplayer wherever you are. Prop the body up with the built in stand, detach the controllers and away you go. That's it's main gimick.

Imagine commuting on the train, a hot person of your preferred sex next to you. "Can we play smash brothers together on that?", they say. "Of course", you say. It's the New seXy. [emoji6]

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why breakaway controllers?

To play it in console mode. The tablet is docked and drives the TV, and the controllers work wirelessly. I guess the idea is you can take to anyone's house/display and play console, rather than needing to pack a couple a controllers in your bag just in case.

 

[Rodéric]

That take on the NX looks good, although it lacks stereo speakers
Tokyo Game Show is only a few weeks from now... I expect news then.

 

[rapso]

Rumors about cartridges light up again:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/nintend...go-retro-with-videogame-cartridges-1472811942
(sorry for the paywall, I've also only read the topic :/ )

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Well, here's another rumor to feed the mill.

This actually comes from a brazilian forum back in May. In his first post, the guy said "you'll hear it all over the international news when my source gets authorized to disclose this info to third parties". His supposed source was people from a Japanese forum who were working for Nintendo.. Exactly two months later the Eurogamer article pops up.

Now I think some of the stuff here is ridiculous (RAM expansions and 3D accelerators in cartridges makes zero sense nowadays IMO), but other things have been progressively popping up here and there through different channels, so here goes a sum up of what the guy claimed:

- The NX "concept" is indeed a hybrid. The console itself is just a very small and thin box with no batteries, no screen, etc.. Basically just a PCB in a box with connectors;

- The box can connect to a "home dock" for TV viewing

- Detachable gamepads with detachable components, so you can choose where to put the buttons, d-pad or analogs. Gamepads have their own batteries so they can work wirelessly;

- Besides the detachable gamepads and home-dock, there's also a "mobility dock". This mobility-dock has batteries to power the console in mobile mode, plugs for the gamepads and a screen. The screen can either be Nintendo's own separately purchased screen or a smartphone/tablet. The mobility-dock holds the screen/handheld on its own;

- Can connect to TV through HDMI and wirelessly to a handheld to show 2 different screens at the same time (Wii U-like);

- SoC is Tegra N1, which is substantially more powerful than Tegra X1;

- Cartridges and SD cards.

- The connection to the cartridges is fast enough to warrant dedicated accelerators and/or more RAM inside them. He said this would be used further down the line with later-gen games that need to push beyond the boundaries of the Tegra N1 (he gave Super Nintendo's Super FX as a predecessor)

- Console is $300 (I guess with home-dock + mobility-dock + pair of controllers), extra screen is $100-200 depending on resolution, controllers are $50.

The "co-processors in cartridges" is the part I call bullshit on.. Putting a GPU or even a whole SoC in the cartridge would make its price completely ridiculous, it would void the possibility of digital distribution, not to mention the super fast and super expensive physical connection needed for such cartridges.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How would display out to a mobile device work? They don't have display in. Unless the idea is to play Nintendo NX games on mobile and connect the device up as just an Android/iOS controller peripheral, which seems unlikely.

 

[rabidrabbit]

That would require some remote play style app on the phone or tablet. The "mobility dock" would need to have a wifi connection, or would bluetooth be fast enough?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

How would display out to a mobile device work?

In a similar way the PS4 displays into Android xperia smartphones and tablets, or the Vita, or a PC.. they're not really crossing uncharted waters here.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So wirelessly transmitting from the handset to the mobile device mere millimetres away? Possible, but pretty roundabout, no? With latency concerns that a true handheld won't have. And what if there's no Wifi? It'd have to have a network router built in for the device to attach to or something. I suppose Wifi Direct is an option for Android but not Apple.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

So wirelessly transmitting from the handset to the mobile device mere millimetres away? Possible, but pretty roundabout, no? With latency concerns that a true handheld won't have. And what if there's no Wifi? It'd have to have a network router built in for the device to attach to or something. I suppose Wifi Direct is an option for Android but not Apple.

If there's no input from smartphone to the NX so it's strictly a one-way UDP video stream (, I'd say there shouldn't be many latency issues even if the router isn't very fast.

But just like Sony does with their streaming, they would claim that only WiFi Direct can guarantee the ideal experience.

Or the smartphone/tablet connection would be presented as a feature but what they really want you to do is pay $100 for their dedicated 720p screen.

 

[Wynix]

If there are co-processors on the cart, I bet they are used as anti-piracy measures and nothing to do with performance improvements.

 

[rapso]

The "co-processors in cartridges" is the part I call bullshit on.. Putting a GPU or even a whole SoC in the cartridge would make its price completely ridiculous, it would void the possibility of digital distribution, not to mention the super fast and super expensive physical connection needed for such cartridges.

I agree it would be way to expensive to embed them, BUT maybe you could stack an 'extension'. I think it would make sense to rather use one port for all, than to build in a reserved-port 'for future use' like so many consoles had in the past and never used.
it could work like 'action replay cartridge'.

The idea of using exiting tablet/phone screens sound very nice. releasing one nintendo screen that is cheap but fits highest user demands is impossible, but if everyone can use their fancy phablet screen if wanted, but otherwise get a cheap nintendo screen, would be win-win.
I don't worry about the latency, the wii-u gamepad is also wifi pro propelled , considering how well game streaming works on nvidia shield from your PC (all with build in hardware encoders/decoders), it's all proven tech.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't worry about the latency, the wii-u gamepad is also wifi pro propelled , considering how well game streaming works on nvidia shield from your PC (all with build in hardware encoders/decoders), it's all proven tech.

Wii U and nVidia streaming are controlling the hardware on both ends of the connection. With an iThing or Android device, Nintendo are missing significant control over part of the picture. We can already see software incompatibilities on Android - could be pretty hit and miss.

It also means the device needs to have an attachment system that can fit a range of devices, with different screen aspects (how's that supported in game?) and different thicknesses. But it's not just a controller but a whole gaming device, so it'll still be pretty bulky without the mobile. Can't help but feel if Nintendo want to go that route they'd be better off providing a compact Nintendo Controller for mobile devices and just produce native games...

 

[rapso]

Wii U and nVidia streaming are controlling the hardware on both ends of the connection. With an iThing or Android device, Nintendo are missing significant control over part of the picture.

sure, might not suite a fighting game where you need low latency, but if you want to play animal crossing, zelda,metroid, etc. it might be nice to play on your ipad screen and save $100 bucks (or whatever N will charge) for the screen.
N has clearly a price limit (<$300 I'd guess), and if they focus more of that money on the actual device and make a lot of stuff optional, you will get overall better looking games.The claim N1 is "substantially more powerful than Tegra X1;" is a good start.

what alternatives are there?
-N tries to make an affordable device -> most people in this forum will bash it for being sub-standard and refuse to buy it
-N tries to make a good performing, nice screen, 5TFlops device that renders 4k on 6inch. A quality/premium device like an iphone7/galaxyS7, leading to the same price tag -> most people out there won't afford it, although they'd love to have it.

Hence, if what ToTTenTranz posted is to be true, you can get a <$200 NX (mobile station+controller) and just play the games you want or some >$500 NX (GPU+Memory extension, quality (maybe 3rd party) OLED screen) to have the highest pixel fidelity.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Shifty, you're raising questions that have been answered for years/decades on other platforms...

Wii U and nVidia streaming are controlling the hardware on both ends of the connection. With an iThing or Android device, Nintendo are missing significant control over part of the picture. We can already see software incompatibilities on Android - could be pretty hit and miss.

Streaming to a smart device would be a convenient feature, like the PS4 being able to stream to Android and Windows devices, or the XBone streaming to Windows 10 and 10 Mobile. It's not something it must exist in rock-solid state on every smart device on earth, so it will obviously not work on many devices. According to the rumor, the rock-solid experience would come with their own screen attachment -> but want to try save money? Give it a shot with your smartphone first.

It also means the device needs to have an attachment system that can fit a range of devices, (...) and different thicknesses

We've had gamepads with telescopic attachments for smartphones and tablets for many years now..

They hold devices of several form factors just fine. Especially that horizontal one (iPega 9023) which I own myself.

with different screen aspects (how's that supported in game?)

How did 16:9 and 21:9 movies play on 4:3 monitors 20 years ago? How does the 16:9 netflix content play in a ipad?
Black bars. It's just a video stream..

 

[Shifty Geezer]

sure, might not suite a fighting game where you need low latency, but if you want to play animal crossing, zelda,metroid, etc. it might be nice to play on your ipad screen and save $100 bucks (or whatever N will charge) for the screen..

I'm not convinced a 6" screen would add crazy amounts to the cost though. eg. You can grab a 5" 1080p mobile touch screen from eBay for £25. Is a 6" 720p screen going to add more than $25 to the BOM?

Streaming to a smart device would be a convenient feature, like the PS4 being able to stream to Android and Windows devices, or the XBone streaming to Windows 10 and 10 Mobile. It's not something it must exist in rock-solid state on every smart device on earth, so it will obviously not work on many devices. According to the rumor, the rock-solid experience would come with their own screen attachment -> but want to try save money? Give it a shot with your smartphone first.

That's fine for cheapo Chinese gaming peripherals, but I'm not convinced it'll work with a 'serious' Nintendo product. What's the messaging? "Available now - Nintendo NX! Use you mobile phone as a screen. Only it might not work, in which case you can buy an optional screen for $100." It's messy!

We've had gamepads with telescopic attachments for smartphones and tablets for many years now..

Sure, but they hold a thick mobile phone, not a super-thin screen. This design would have to accommodate both a fat phone and a skinny, fragile screen, unless the screen is bulked up I suppose.

How did 16:9 and 21:9 movies play on 4:3 monitors 20 years ago? How does the 16:9 netflix content play in a ipad?
Black bars. It's just a video stream..

Again, kinda messy.

Which is really my point. Yes, the idea could work technically, but it's not straightforward or polished or readily communicable. When Joe Consumer walks into GameStop looking for an NX, do they get the one with the screen or without? Would anyone pick up a handheld console where the box says, "screen not included"?! It just seems something no-one would want save the internet savvy gamer who's read about these things, IMO. Hence the rumour is implausible to my mind.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

What's the messaging? "Available now - Nintendo NX! Use you mobile phone as a screen. Only it might not work, in which case you can buy an optional screen for $100." It's messy!

How about "here's a list of 30 devices that are officially supported" and from there they let you install the app but won't guarantee it will work?

Again, kinda messy.

Which is really my point. Yes, the idea could work technically, but it's not straightforward or polished or readily communicable.

Yet PS4Bone streaming to PC exists and people like it a lot.