PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

[davygee]

I'm guessing Sony figures the Slim can directly compete with Xbox One S regardless of the 4K features because of the performance gap that still exists.

Sales in NA are virtually like for like with XBox One and PS4 at the moment due to the new S model. And remember that the PS4 is currently $50 more expensive than the One. I would be extremely surprised if Sony don't reduce the RRP of the PS4 to $299 at the most frm the current $349 price. Although considering the price saving and reductions in build quality and features, I don't think its beyond Sony to bring it further down. So fully expect it to be between $249-$299.

 

[Gradthrawn]

Neo is premium PS4...

If premium means cooler and quieter...

Cryogenic cooling sounds premium to me.

I'm curious as to where the "Premium" descriptor came from? As best I can tell, the only official statement is "high end" which is perhaps even more vague (but I suspect with a very different connotation). Are there some other statements out there marketing the Neo as "Premium"? I ask because I see that constantly on various forums.

“I don’t think we’re suggesting with Neo, the conventional console lifecycle is over – I’m certainly not making that statement,” he said. “This is an additional option, it’s a high-end version of a PlayStation 4, let’s be very clear about that, rather than a generational shift.”

 

[London Geezer]

Semantics! High end implies it will be Premium over a lower end product.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm curious as to where the "Premium" descriptor came from? As best I can tell, the only official statement is "high end" which is perhaps even more vague (but I suspect with a very different connotation). Are there some other statements out there marketing the Neo as "Premium"? I ask because I see that constantly on various forums.

What's your interpretation of premium that makes it different from high-end? You have regular PS4 and 'better PS4' which is a high-end version of the same console, or a premium version of the same console, no?

 

[Heinrich04]

A man throwing quotes around will be able to link to where Sony promised this.

I really need to put links? Sony launched in 1994 ps1, ps2 in 2000, seven years later ps4 in 2013. Do you believe that if consumers knew in 2013 that there would be a more powerful console or "pro", "upgrade" etc in three years they will have nearly 45 million units sold ? I not and probably many who play the vast majority of multi games prefer to upgrade the PC to spend a console "pro" Upgrade "whateaver.
Don't get me wrong, but I have impression this system "upgrades" similar to smartphones may not be suitable for the console market because consumers there is a certain aspect of fidelity and IMO, if there are not enough first software games really attractive in numbers may unfortunately this market die for saturation of so many offer hardware doing practically the same thing.
Maybe if they reduced the cycle of consoles releases 5/6 + 4 years to be the medium term if this are inevitable progress.

 

[Heinrich04]

* Maybe if they reduced the cycle of consoles releases 5/6 + to 4 years is a medium term if this are inevitable progress.

 

[London Geezer]

And again, nothing has changed for those gamers that for whatever reason want to stick to a 6+ years cycle. Neo comes out this year, and in 3-4 years you'll still get the 'real' new generation with the PS5 or whatever.

But in the meantime you and everyone else have the option for a half-gen refresh that you can simply ignore, like many of us will, while enjoying your original PS4.

I really don't understand the hostility.

 

[Gradthrawn]

What's your interpretation of premium that makes it different from high-end? You have regular PS4 and 'better PS4' which is a high-end version of the same console, or a premium version of the same console, no?

I'm not sure there is, but I suspect there might be depending on the person. Personally, premium would seem to have implications in regards to quality while high-end would seem to simply imply that it's better in some way shape or form (could be quality, but it might simply be performance or features). For example, take the 3DS and the New 3DS. I would be hard pressed to describe the New 3DS as "premium", but it is definitely a "high-end" 3DS. The overall quality of the materials and build, while solid, doesn't give a premium impression (to me). Yet its still better, the high-end version.

Spoiler

For the time being we'll set asside any potential future Presidential directives that require all product designated as "premium" to have copious amounts of Gold adorned on it in some manner.

That said, we're talking about my personal connotation of those 2 words versus their actual definition. I suspect others might have their own distinct connotation for premium and high-end which could color their expectations. Since the only actual quote that I can find is "high-end" and that has seemed to morph to "premium" I was curious as to why. More than likely, however, too much focus is being placed on specific words from what appears to be a transcribed interview in the absence of any solid messaging about the Neo from Sony

And again, nothing has changed for those gamers that for whatever reason want to stick to a 6+ years cycle. Neo comes out this year, and in 3 years you'll still get the 'real' new generation with the PS5 or whatever.

But in the meantime you and everyone else have the option for a half-gen refresh that you can simply ignore, like many of us will, while enjoying your original PS4.

I really don't understand the hostility.

I was thinking the same thing. So far as I can tell, this generation (PS4/XBO) will last about as long as any other in recent history from a 1st and 3rd party support perspective.

 

[mpg1]

And again, nothing has changed for those gamers that for whatever reason want to stick to a 6+ years cycle. Neo comes out this year, and in 3 years you'll still get the 'real' new generation with the PS5 or whatever.

But in the meantime you and everyone else have the option for a half-gen refresh that you can simply ignore, like many of us will, while enjoying your original PS4.

I really don't understand the hostility.

Really? You think a "PS5" will be out in 3 years? I'm skeptical. I'm thinking 2020 at absolute earliest.

 

[London Geezer]

Really? You think a "PS5" will be out in 3 years? I'm skeptical. I'm thinking 2020 at absolute earliest.

3-4 years, yes. Ultimately they will release it when they think is the right time. We don't know what the market will look like with these new consoles coming out so soon.

 

[mpg1]

3-4 years, yes. Ultimately they will release it when they think is the right time. We don't know what the market will look like with these new consoles coming out so soon.

Well it it depends if PS5 is a generational leap in terms of hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a model like PS4 generation for PS5 generation where we get a an initial new massive hardware leap then followed by an new model a few years later primarily with gpu upgrade.

PS4:
8 core CPU
8GDDR5
1.8 TFlop GPU

PS4 neo:
Same CPU clocked slightly higher
Same memory clocked slightly higher
GPU effectively doubled

PS5:
New CPU
32GB HBM2
12Tflop GPU

PS5 "2":
Same CPU clocked slightly higher
Same memory clocked slightly higher
GPU effectively doubled

 

[London Geezer]

I don't even know what I'm having for dinner tonight, I simply have no way to predict what will happen with Sony and MS in 4 years

 

[babcat]

Completely disagree, Sony just need to release it.
They are winning this gen quite comfortably, the Scorpio being faster isn't going to suddenly sway people to start picking up Xbox consoles en masse.
The Neo and even the Scorpio are just a stop-gap solutions, the real 4KVR console will be the PS5, of which Sony need to release in 2019; Now THAT needs to be a beast.

The Scorpio could indeed sway people to pick up consoles en masse. At 4.2TFlops a PS4 Neo won't give any graphical improvements other than resolution at 4K. However, at 6-7 TFlop the Scorpio could potentially have a graphics advantage. I think people are going to realize that the PS4 NEO offers almost nothing unless they have a 4K television. Then it will offer a higher resolution image. If they have PSVR they will get a doubling of frame rates and perhaps comptibility for PSVR 2 that will have a higher resolution display.

I propose that Sony should cancel the NEO all together and wait until they can launch the PS5 with a 10-12TFlop GPU. This will allow for 4K gaming with some graphical boost.

 

[scf]

Do you imagine how many players out there who would die for a 4k capable console? I don't think there are many.

 

[babcat]

They must be expecting a lot from VR to push this out for VR support.

They are betting everything on 4K and VR.

The truth is that even with much better hardware, most of their developers are unwilling to push graphics due to costs. The easy way out is to go for 4K resolution and VR which will eat up extra resources without significant development costs. Going for a photorealistic graphics is too much work for developers

If they had launched a PS5 targetted at 1080P, most developers would not have pushed photorealistic graphics and there would have been very little wow factor. Now, with the PS4 Neo, Sony can manipulate the masses into saying "wow" about 4K and VR when there is little to no graphical improvement.

The truth is if a company like Sony knows they can make millions by selling the same level of graphical quality for a decade or longer, they will not push at all for higher quality graphics. They will go for VR and 4K because it will increase their earnings.

 

[Commenter]

Well it it depends if PS5 is a generational leap in terms of hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a model like PS4 generation for PS5 generation where we get a an initial new massive hardware leap then followed by an new model a few years later primarily with gpu upgrade.

PS4:
8 core CPU
8GDDR5
1.8 TFlop GPU

PS4 neo:
Same CPU clocked slightly higher
Same memory clocked slightly higher
GPU effectively doubled

PS5:
New CPU
32GB HBM2
12Tflop GPU

PS5 "2":
Same CPU clocked slightly higher
Same memory clocked slightly higher
GPU effectively doubled

That's some Moore's law defying fortune telling right there.

 

[babcat]

Do you imagine how many players out there who would die for a 4k capable console? I don't think there are many.

I would die for a console focused on upscaled 720P or 1080P. A PS5 focused on this resolution could create some awesome graphics. However, it won't happen.

 

[Commenter]

PS6 specs:

128gb hbm5 memory 3 tflops/second bandwidth

GeForce Son of Einstein Wtf edition 50 teraflops of Powah

Zen Dalai Lama 32 core cpu clocked at 5ghz

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

They are betting everything on 4K and VR.

The truth is that even with much better hardware, most of their developers are unwilling to push graphics due to costs. The easy way out is to go for 4K resolution and VR which will eat up extra resources without significant development costs. Going for a photorealistic graphics is too much work for developers

If they had launched a PS5 targetted at 1080P, most developers would not have pushed photorealistic graphics and there would have been very little wow factor. Now, with the PS4 Neo, Sony can manipulate the masses into saying "wow" about 4K and VR when there is little to no graphical improvement.

The truth is if a company like Sony knows they can make millions by selling the same level of graphical quality for a decade or longer, they will not push at all for higher quality graphics. They will go for VR and 4K because it will increase their earnings.

Developers don't need to target photo-realistic graphics in order to improve fidelity. Higher resolution textures and meshes, more detailed particle effects, and greater draw distance are all possible improvements beyond mere output resolution.

As is already the case, where some developers will prioritise some graphical aspect such as framerate, we'll see this additional power used in different ways.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well it it depends if PS5 is a generational leap in terms of hardware.

It'll be a generational leap above PS4. Obviously it won't be a gen higher than Neo unless it comes out a gen (5+ years) afterwards.

They are betting everything on 4K and VR.

Nope. They have the traditional 2D market going strong for them. Neo isn't necessary to maintain that - lower cost PS4 is. What Neo is is an experiment in a premium console offering the same games to the same players only in better quality.

If they had launched a PS5 targetted at 1080P

Console don't target resolutions - developers do. The only way to 'target' 1080p in the console is to gimp the output and not allow 4k out!

Now, with the PS4 Neo, Sony can manipulate the masses into saying "wow" about 4K and VR when there is little to no graphical improvement.

You're making major assumptions about what Neo will provide. PS4 at 4k is actually unlikely- it's not brute-force powerful enough. So we may well see PS4 games at higher framerates. We'll have to wait and see.

The truth is if a company like Sony knows they can make millions by selling the same level of graphical quality for a decade or longer, they will not push at all for higher quality graphics. They will go for VR and 4K because it will increase their earnings.

You have a very strange view of who decides what games look like.